The punks who assaulted my daughter (long)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
201

Here in Cumberland, the property owners are responsible for maintaining sidewalks and keeping them clear of blockages. The flipside to that is that I do have the right to decide if I don’t want someone walking on them. When the punk was on the grass strip between the sidewalk and the road, I was keeping a close eye on him but not saying anything. But when he stepped off that grass strip and started pacing up and down our sidewalk, I was kind of whispering to my daughter that I was going to go tell him to get off of our property. She offered to do it for me. She started off by saying to him “Do you realize that the sidewalk in front of our house is part of our property?” and he just stared at her. Then she said “You’re not allowed to be on our property” (which the detective just told him yesterday), and that’s when he put his hand on his hip and said “Well, here I am”.

I had not thought to call the detective in charge and report this incident, but I do think it’s a good idea to do so.

The other punk was actually out, with his mother and a sibling last night, walking their dogs. They did it on the other side of the street. Didn’t even look in our direction. I really have a feeling that in both cases, the waters were being tested. I think the other kid’s mother may have been seeing if I would start something when her kid wasn’t doing anything wrong.

202

Around here, property owners have to keep the sidewalk clear of snow, etc., but nevertheless the sidewalk is public property and anyone can walk on them. So although I do agree that the punk was trying to aggravate you, doublecheck with the cops what the rules are about who’s allowed on the sidewalk.

203

As a general principle, although sidewalks may be the property of the homeowner, there is an easement which permits public use of the sidewalk.

204

[QUOTE=ratatoskK]
Around here, property owners have to keep the sidewalk clear of snow, etc., but nevertheless the sidewalk is public property and anyone can walk on them. So although I do agree that the punk was trying to aggravate you, doublecheck with the cops what the rules are about who’s allowed on the sidewalk.
[/QUOTE]

It was the patrolman who took the initial complaint who told me I could kick them off my property for being on my sidewalk. The grass strip between the sidewalk and the road, though, I have no control over.

205

The sidewalk incident is disturbing. If the police have already talked to the boy, and he still persists in trying to push your buttons (or his parents are encouraging him) then he obviously does not care about the seriousness of the situation.

Call the investigating officer already.

206

Whether or not the waters were being tested, I think your eldest deserves a great deal of appreciation for being willing to step up to the kid.

When I first clicked on this thread, frankly, I thought from the title it was going to be about her, given her troubles. It’s horrifying either way, but mudgirl’s age certainly adds to that.

I’m sure you’ve already given your eldest your thanks, but consider letting her know that there’s someone else out “in the ether” who is impressed with her willingness to step up for her kid sister.

Continued good luck and thoughts to all of you.

207

[QUOTE=BlueKangaroo]
Whether or not the waters were being tested, I think your eldest deserves a great deal of appreciation for being willing to step up to the kid.

When I first clicked on this thread, frankly, I thought from the title it was going to be about her, given her troubles. It’s horrifying either way, but mudgirl’s age certainly adds to that.

[/QUOTE]

Is the one who went and confronted the kid the eldest, or just the eldest at home? I thought the OP said she was 17, whereas norinew’s eldest daughter is in her early to mid twenties, I thought?

208

If you have a cellphone with a camera, I suggest you make sure it’s handy in case he ever gets that brave again. If it gets video and sound, so much the better.

Mind you, I’m not versed in the law — there may be some statute or restriction against filming somebody against their will. But it is your property he’s on, and he’s playing with fire.

209

[QUOTE=Freudian Slit]
Is the one who went and confronted the kid the eldest, or just the eldest at home? I thought the OP said she was 17, whereas norinew’s eldest daughter is in her early to mid twenties, I thought?
[/QUOTE]

Clarification: the one who confronted the kid is my eldest, who is 21. She does not live here, but was here at the time of the incident. I did thank her and express my appreciation.

Today, he (the punk) cut across my yard on his way to somewhere else and I called him out on it. Mudgirl wasn’t even home, but this is not the kind of family you can give an inch to, you know?

I called the detective, and he said to document any and every time the punk sets foot on my property, and to call him back if the behavior continues, or especially if it escalates.

I’m quite certain he doesn’t care about the seriousness of the situation. He’s been “talked to” by the police so many times (not that it’s made an iota of difference in his behavior as far as I can see), that I don’t think he understands this is much more serious than the charges of petty theft, destruction of property, etc. that he’s faced in the past.

The other punk, OTOH, I saw him again today at the supermarket, and like yesterday, he was with his mother. They didn’t even look at me, and I certainly didn’t say anything to them. Prior to this incident, he roamed the neighborhood freely, but I think his mother is taking this very seriously, and he’s not going anywhere unaccompanied. I also found out that “punk number 2” is only 11! :eek: He seriously looks a year or two older than “punk number 1” (who is 13), so pn2 may actually skate past this. Of course, if it’s an isolated incident for him, and he was drawn into by pn1, I just hope he learns a lesson from this, and never even considers doing such a thing again!

At the risk of getting repetitive, thanks again to all those who are offering their support in this thread, in email and in PMs!!

210

[QUOTE=Fish]
If you have a cellphone with a camera, I suggest you make sure it’s handy in case he ever gets that brave again. If it gets video and sound, so much the better.

Mind you, I’m not versed in the law — there may be some statute or restriction against filming somebody against their will. But it is your property he’s on, and he’s playing with fire.
[/QUOTE]

Not quite comfortable posting about this. Check your PMs.

211

It sounds like punk 1 is pushing, just to see how far he can go, maybe to let you know he thinks he can. I’d guess he doesn’t care whether this is serious. He thinks he can do what he pleases because he always has.

I’m keeping you and mudgirl in my prayers. She’s quite a kid.

212

[QUOTE=thirdwarning]
It sounds like punk 1 is pushing, just to see how far he can go, maybe to let you know he thinks he can. I’d guess he doesn’t care whether this is serious. He thinks he can do what he pleases because he always has.

I’m keeping you and mudgirl in my prayers. She’s quite a kid.
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I sincerely don’t know whether:

  1. He doesn’t realize that this is serious
  2. He doesn’t care that this is serious
  3. He’s, like, a psychopath or something and and is incapable of caring.

But the prayers are appreciated! She really is quite a kid!

213

[QUOTE=norinew]
I sincerely don’t know whether:

  1. He doesn’t realize that this is serious
  2. He doesn’t care that this is serious
  3. He’s, like, a psychopath or something and and is incapable of caring.
    [/QUOTE]

He’s a child, and nothing he’s done so far has resulted in punishment serious enough to deter him. So like anyone else still learning their boundaries, he’s going to keep pushing until he learns where they are.

This is why it is important that you not allow him to constantly walk past your boundaries.

Unfortunately, he’s walking across some pretty serious life boundaries, and if no one teaches him these lessons hard enough to make them stick, he’s going to grow up believing that he can cross that line any time he feels like it.

214

Is there any way you can get a restraining order against these maggots?

215

[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
Is there any way you can get a restraining order against these maggots?
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, around here, no matter how good your reasons are for wanting a restraining order, it costs $60.00 to file for one. Yep, he assaults my daughter, he ignores police warnings to “steer clear” of us, and we get to pony up $60.00 to file for a restraining order.

It’s not that I have a problem with paying the fee. It’s that, he’s already broken the law. He’s already been told, by a police detective, not to be on our property, and he hasn’t fucking listened! So I’m supposed to fork over $60.00 for the privilege of him not listening some more?!?

You can believe, though, if he continues to push his boundaries, I’ll be doing everything I can, up to and including getting a restraining order.

216

Please spring for the RO. If nothing else, it is $60 worth of official documentation that this kid is being willfully uncooperative. Thumbing his nose at the law after doing something like this is not a good sign, IMO. This kid needs to understand the seriousness of this crime before it is too late for him, and too late for the rest of society.

I do not pray, Norine, but I hold you and mudgirl in my thoughts all the same.

217

Another point in favor of the restraining order: AIUI you don’t have to be limited to simply your property lines with one. You can have the restraining order command him to remain at least X feet from your property, or public places where you expect mudgirl to be. (Like her school, or a playground.)

Obviously, IANAL, but if you could get a restraining order of that nature, you no longer have to deal with the idiot going, “I’m on your property. Oh, no I’m not. Look I’m on your property again. Neener neener neener.” If he’s to keep 400 feet away from your property (assuming you have the space for such an order), and you see him in the street in front of your house - there’s no questions about whether he was really violating the order or not.

218

[QUOTE=OtakuLoki]
Another point in favor of the restraining order: AIUI you don’t have to be limited to simply your property lines with one. You can have the restraining order command him to remain at least X feet from your property, or public places where you expect mudgirl to be. (Like her school, or a playground.)

Obviously, IANAL, but if you could get a restraining order of that nature, you no longer have to deal with the idiot going, “I’m on your property. Oh, no I’m not. Look I’m on your property again. Neener neener neener.” If he’s to keep 400 feet away from your property (assuming you have the space for such an order), and you see him in the street in front of your house - there’s no questions about whether he was really violating the order or not.
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First of all, it seems evident that the kids’ parents are unfazed by the seriousness of what happened. I would have hoped they’d put an unholy smackdown on the kids. The parents might be thick, but if the police came around, it would surely get their attention. The message to the kids (from the parents) should be “Stay the hell away or else.”

Either that hasn’t happened or the parents don’t care to enforce it. It seems extremely likely that if you and mudgirl ran into the boys at a public place like Wal Mart or a restaurant etc., they’d be total assholes about it. They’re already crossed the line by taking a shortcut across your property so there’s no reason to think they wouldn’t delight in finding mudgirl “fair game” outside the property lines.

IANAL and I don’t know how this will all play out. When it goes to court, will mudgirl have to sit on the witness stand and face them? Suppose between now and then, the kid(s) see you and mudgirl at the gas station or whatever. They come over and taunt or threaten her. Without witnesses close enough to hear, it’s your word against that of the boys. But bystanders could observe the distance and know it’s under 400 feet.

If a restraining order makes the parents finally take notice and consequently the boys stay away, it’s worth $60 for mudgirl’s peace of mind.

If a restraining order means that when the boys go too far, they end up in even more trouble (and are possibly detained), it’s worth $60 for that satisfaction.

If a restraining order doesn’t do much good, at least you can feel that you did everything you could to protect mudgirl and covered your bases. You won’t have to ask “What if we’d gotten one before X happened?”

If it were me—and these boys approached us at a mall or something—I would have to do something. My first choice involves my bare hands and, well, let’s not go there. Second choice is dialing the cops. I’d want to have that restraining order so I have that second choice.

219

If you want, I can send you some PayPal money to help cover the costs. I’m sure plenty of other people will do the same.

220

Wait a minute…I can understand if someone is “bothering” you in some way, that you’d have to be the one ponying up the cash and initiating the restraining order. However, this is a completely different situation! The police don’t automatically institute some sort of protective order that keeps this little bastid far enough away that he can’t intimidate you and the kid? This just seems so lame to me. I’ve never been involved in a protective order situation before, but it seems to me that they’d include this as part of “serving and protecting” your family. You shouldn’t be the one that has to do it. Can someone help me understand why Norinew has to be the one to take this step once the police have been brought into the picture?