I hope you have the police on your speed dial (landline and cell phone). And do you carry the papers with you in case you’re out and about and need to prove you have restraining orders against them?
It’s good to know you’re not letting your guard down. But I’m glad you have the ROs in place so that you have something you can act on if need be. You definitely got their attention! 
ETA: More in the “Boy scout/Be prepared” mode: Do you think you need to carry any pepper spray?
One more thing…
It occurs to me that although you have ROs against the boys, you don’t against the father. Could he come up, knock on your door, and start screaming at you? It might be time for a “No Trespassing” sign on the lawn. IIRC in some states you have to have that clearly posted before anybody can be arrested for it.
Hopefully you’ve scared them off and won’t need it. But, just in case…
Hon, the reason I said to you what I did is that I know you and I share a lot of experiences. We’ve moved on, now we keep our kids from living it. You’re doing a great job and that is why you have great kids!
You are right to suspect that the father is unstable. I will have to check to be sure, but I’m fairly certain that you don’t need no trespassing signs around here to get someone arrested for trespassing! I really will double-check, though; he’s got a bad out-of-control temper, and I wouldn’t put it past him to pull some crap! Good thought, and thank you!
As for the police on speed dial, because of the role I’ve played in the neighborhood assoc. for over ten years now, I have that number memorized! I do carry my cell phone with me at all times, and went down this morning and got copies of the ROs to carry with me as well.
Litoris, thanks! 
and Don’t Call Me Shirley et al, yes, all his behaviour is indicative of something. I don’t now what action was taken or expected in this situation. I made the teacher aware of the note. She was already aware of other issues.
As it affected my child, all the incidents happened at the school - the same school the boy’s brothers attended. They know everything as reported by the teachers - I know rumours repeated to my kid “He’s been showing off his penis again, :rolleyes: ! Not to *me * though, hah!”
As I said first up, I laughed off the note when I first saw it. If the exposure had been the only problem, I’d have laughed that off too (we actually read through a similar scene in *No. 1 Ladies Detective Agency * - Maggenkid had dealt with it in exactly the same way, it made her feel very clever to have worked out the best solution by herself).
One or two events like that can be just a normal testing of the limits - especially in one so young. Over the years, yes, the continuing behaviour screams out that something is happening, you now have as many facts as I do.
Seriously; “The kid’s a freak, everyone says so, and he said something inappropriate four years ago.” would get pretty short attention in a child protective agency that’s got it’s hands full already.
Actually, I was talking about maggenpye’s example. Kids that age should be doing the whole “I’ll show you mine if you’ll show me your’s”, not bugging girls to come over his house for sex, and then having his mom laugh at how “mature” her little man is. That’s scary. (When I was that age, “sex” was when you kissed while you were naked)
(Of course, I wouldn’t be surprised to know if that’s the case in norinew’s situation. Either way, it sounds like a majorly bad situation all around)
Excellent! Is the therapist experianced with cases like Mudgirl’s? You really really need someone with expertise with victims of child molestation. Unfortunatly, most therapists are just general therapists…like they know how to deal with depression and other issues, but not something as messed up as child sexual abuse. Maybe also a good idea might be to find a therapist with feminist leanings.
Therapists with feminist leanings may be able to help inhibit the “oh it was all my fault” mentality that a lot of victims of sexual assault deal with.
There is a risk that this sort of thing might trigger some fucked up sexual behavoir. I know of at least four women who were sexually abused as kids/teens (two of them were actually somewhat developmentally delayed so they still count as kids) and ALL of them developed some pretty fucked up attitudes about sexuality. You don’t want your daughter getting the idea in her head that all guys want is sex, and she should empower herself from this experiance(like when she’s older) by having sex with every one who has a penis. After all, (sarcasm) she needs to prove that SHE can get a man without someone sexually attacking her(sarcasm)…and yes I know that’s a weird way of thinking, but that is exactly how ALL four women I know who were sexually abused as kids thought. One of the women I know, had sex with about twenty guys!!! Another had a fuck buddy experiance, and looked at me like I had three heads b/c I expressed concern that wasn’t the healthiest sitution in the world.
Just be careful she understands about healthy sexuality, and that sex should be a nautral healthy outgrowth of a healthy relationship.
Make her understand that those fuckers who did that to her, simply used their pricks to attack her. It was an attack clear and simple. Granted it was a lot more complicated then kids beating each other up…but it was an attack. And it wasn’t her fault at all. It was simply two very fucked up juvenile delinquents.
Oh, and I’m somewhat familair with social services like DSS…if the family has an extensive history, it’s possible that this won’t be swept under the rug. Also the kid who is kind of dancing on the line…it’s possible that he is being severely abused and is acting out b/c he subconsciously wants help. Hopefully this will turn out all right in the end…Mudgirl won’t be TOO damaged by this (crossing my fingers that she won’t end up like the women I know) and perhaps a couple of potential rapists will be treated and locked up.
This therapist is with a group of therapists who work with women and children who are victims of domestic abuse/incest/sexual abuse. If the first therapist turns out to not be the right one, we’ll keep searching until we find the one who is.
For quite a few years (ages 14 to 25) this was pretty much my attitude! I was serially sexually molested from age ~4 to ~15 (by the same man). By sleeping with every guy I could (and I couldn’t even give you an estimate!), I was, one, validating myself as an attractive person (I thought) and two, having sex because I chose to, not because it was forced on me. Mudgirl’s situation is significantly different, because it was an isolated incident, and because she’s getting help now. Part of my promiscuity was also sort of me flipping off my mother, in effect saying to her “Hey, you didn’t care that this one guy molested me again and again, let’s see if you care if a bunch of other guys screw me”.
Fortunately, after a number of years of therapy of my own (at the same place mudgirl will be going to) and more than 23 years of monogamy and 19 years of marriage with a wonderful, understanding man, I’ve reached a more peaceful place.
I don’t have any doubt that he’s at least being physically abused at home, don’t know about sexually. Who knows? Maybe he is acting out in order to get help. Maybe this will be the impetus for that help.
This is my hope, as well. Well, I don’t know about the “locked up” part, but whatever it takes to protect other children. Treatment? Constant supervision? I don’t know. But I can hope.
Are there any updates you can give us, norinew?
I got some mail today from the Dept. of Juvenile Services. There are two identical forms (one for each punk), requesting a “Victim Impact Statement”. The mail was addressed (as were the forms) to mudgirl, but seeing as how she’s very young, I opened it.
I even called the guy who signed them to make sure the statements would be valid if they were written by me, seeing as how she is only eight. He said of course.
The Impact Statements ask about property loss and such, which is not so much an issue here (though I will include an estimate of how much our co-pay on the therapy will be; not that I’m expecting much in the way of restitution. You can’t bleed a stone, after all).
Mostly, I’m going to focus on the “Psychological Impact”.
I hate to play drama queen, but I think I’m going to state it as baldly as I can. I’d hate to see these punks “skate” on this just because she’s handling it well!
I’m going to wait until Friday to fill out these forms, so I can get her father’s input as well. In the meantime, if y’all have any comments, now would be the time for them!
I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. If the criminal justice system lets us down, we’ll totally go for civil charges, even if we have to re-finance the house to do it!
Wish us luck.
The biggest thing I’d say about filling out the psychological impact portion of the statement is to emphasize that the process of prosecution for the illegal acts of these two punks may well add further, unavoidable psychological injuries to mudgirl. Emphasize that you’re taking steps to make sure such injuries will be minimal, but as the situation is not complete, it is impossible, at this time, to give a complete evaluation of the full extent of mudgirl’s psychological injuries.
Having said that, for the love of olivesmarch4th’s pretty annelids, don’t make up stuff to put into the statement.
No to rain on this more than you have already experienced, but do not expect “justice”. We do not have a justice system, but rather we have a LEGAL system. The legal process does not always grant justice and sometimes it does more to damage the victim. Been there / done that / bear the scars.
Good luck to you & your daughter. I wish only that you fare better than I did.
I am certainly not going to make anything up, and didn’t mean to imply I would. Just that I’m not going to go to any lengths to “downplay” anything at all.
An excellent point. Thank you for reminding me!
That’s all I wanted to make certain of, norinew. Sometimes it gets pretty tempting to fudge things a little.
Best of luck to you and mudgirl! I’m very glad to see that they’re taking this seriously and following through.
Oh, believe me, I understand the temptation! I am stopped, though, by the idea that any “fudging” on my part could invalidate the other stuff. If something I did messed this up, I don’t know how I’d live with myself!
Just wanted to put in a quick word about picking therapists. The best advice I ever heard was that you should walk out from your appointment feeling better than when you walked in.
I think this probably holds even (or especially!) in MudGirl’s situation. You seem to be doing a fantastic job with positive reinforcement, so you should find a therapist who can do the same.
May I ask what eventually made you decide that she needed counselling? At first, you seemed relatively reserved about this option.
My thought was that if the therapist would keep it low-key, then as word comes out around the neighborhood, it will help my girl not be traumatized about it. IOW, it’s not so much I thought she needed therapy, but that in the right setting, she would view the therapist as just another friend/mentor/teacher, and could use it.
I have an update that I’d rather not post on a public board. Anyone who is interested should feel free to email or PM me, and I’ll get back with you.
Thank you all again for all of your support.