After all of the bitching by the GOP (and the Bush supporters on this board) about the Gore camp seeking to move the election from the voters to the courts, the GOP has now filed a lawsuit in Federal court to stop the manual recount in Palm Beach County.
I’m sick of the high-minded retoric about how the ballot box should be sacrosanct. If that is true, shouldn’t we try to get the best possible count from the ballot box? The PBC hand recount is being done for three precincts with about 1% of the votes. The idea is to see if there was some sort of systematic error with the machines. The count is being overseen by both Democratic and Republican observers.
But now the Republicans say (before the limited sample is even reviewed) that somehow the machine count is “better” and that hand counting (note that this is carefully observed hand counting) will somehow be deficient.
I thought that an important part of the Republican platform was the right of state officials to function without the intereference of the Federal Government. Let the damn state election officials do their work, dammit.
Perhaps the Democrats concede defeat and stop demanding recount after recount after recount ad infinitum until the results are in line with the Democrat’s expected or wanted results. Why does the margin creep thinner and thinner at every recount? This is by far the most disgusting display of self interest, greed, and self-serving anti-patriotism that I have ever seen. This makes me fucking sick to watch the Democrats take a big, fat shit on America.
Homer, love, Gore has demanded one recount. The first one was recquired by Florida law. Also, just cuz the Dems “demand” it doesn’t mean they are going to get it. The Canvasing board has to agree to it. And they did.
I guess it’s a case of Fuzzy Numbers, right? one=recount and recount.
So, why don’t you calm down and take a few minutes to use the soft, grey matter between your ears.
I agree that I am disappointed the Republicans have sunk to the Democrats’ level and want to litigate this. But I can understand their frustration.
Or, “let’s keep counting, and bending established election law to include votes that weren’t cast properly, votes that have been discounted in every other election we’ve ever held, until Gore wins.”
A manual recount by hand is less accurate than a machine recount. I have no idea why the dems want a hand recount. Maybe they want mistakes and more controversy?
Before the state recount was even completed, Gore & Co were already saying they would support any legal action brought forth challenging the election.
They have set up shop in PBC strip malls to solicit affadavits from unhappy voters. They are actively seeking them out, a detestable and unethical move at best.
They have already come out and said that should Bush win, the election is illegitimate.
I don’t blame Bush for stopping the hand recount, it is utterly ridiculous. He’s won the state twice now, there is no reason for this to continue happening. Florida has used this same sort of system for years (ever since I’ve been voting, and I am 29 now). Complaints about ballot legalities should have been lodged long before now. Complaints about the antiquated equipment should have been lodged long before now. The fact that Gore & Co are not happy with the results is irrelevant.
BTW, I voted Libertarian for Pres, Democrat for Senate, Republican for the House. I am not biased, though I will guaran-fuckin’-tee that if somehow there is a statewide revote (they could not limit it to PBC, it is a statewide election), I’ll be out there campaigning night and fucking day for Bush.
At any rate, there are numbers next to the holes on the ballot that correspond to a number next to a candidate’s name. Any half-wit can compare the number punched on the ballot with the number corresponding to the candidate and tell whether or not s/he voted for the right person.
I could understand a statement that in general mechanically tabulated votes would probably be more accurate than a routine hand count, but in the case of a recount of a close election (particularly one of this importance), I think an actual examination of the ballots by human beings (with observers from both parties) is more accurate.
I can understand a concern that a manual recount may lead to the recognition of votes of a class that might not be otherwise recognized (i.e. ballot cards that were inserted upside down and were therefore marked but not punched), but the appropriate time to answer questions about the validity of such ballots is after they’ve been examined.
Personally, as a voter, I would be damn pissed if my vote were not counted because I had mostly (but not entirely) pucnched a hole so that the machine could not read it, but any reasonable human observer could see the clear intent. Now in New York, where I vote, I use a voting machine, so there are none of the problems attendant with punching ballots (though there are certain other rare problems). However, in New York and elsewhere, recounts and election litigation are common.
From what I have read, Florida has law and procedures regarding ballotting and recounts. It galls me to see the Republicans asking the federal courts to interfere with the process as it is going on, particularly because it is clear that the reason that they are seeking to stop the process in place at this time is because they are are at a point of (perhaps temporary) advantage. It’s like being up by two points in the middle of the fourth quarter, and saying we’re ahead so therefore there is no reason to play the last few minutes.
DB, my friend, I don’t believe any Republicans had any problems with a Florida re-count.
I think a re-count is certainly in order in New Mexica as well, based on the closeness of the almost-complete tabulations. Perhaps Iowa as well (is that the one where they are separated by fewer than 2,000 votes?)
As James Baker said, the vote in Florida has been counted. It’s been re-counted. Now they want to take it to a step that will be less accurate, and can only cause mistakes/fraud that favors Gore. It’s bullshit.
They never, ever before counted the kinds of ballots the Democrats want them to count now.
Next Friday, when the final overseas ballots are counted and the election results are made official by Florida canvassars, this puppy is over. And fuck Gore and his shit-stirring, lowest-common-denominator minions if they try to declare otherwise.
On CNN (TV, not website yet), I just heard that Governor George W. Bush of Texas had signed a bill stating that hand recounts of election results were to be used in preference to machine recounts.
Well, no. I’ve not heard many responsible Bush people complain (well, too much) about the one recount. Bush has no reason to ask for a recount in other states if he wins Florida, because then he’s President. But if a Florida recount shows he loses (or, more precisely, the nth recount shows he loses), then the other states come into play, and (hopefully just) one recount is perfectly legitimate.
"CNN is now reporting that in 1997 Bush signed into law a bill in Texas stating that “manual recount shall be preferred to electronic recount”.
I’m waiting with utter fascination at the convoluted justifications for THIS, and how it doesn’t reallymake him **the biggest fucking hypocrite now living **.
Asmodean: Perhaps no one accuses Gore because Gore has not behaved in a hypocritical fashion. Bummer, huh?
Uh, Tim… hate to rain on your shit parade, but you better check where it’s coming from.
There has been ONE complete recount. It was MANDATED BY FLORIDA LAW. The Dems have requested ONE additional recount, which Bushy baby, who TRUSTS us so much, has gone to court to prevent, even though Florida law supports it. Even though Bushybaby signed a Texas law PREFERRING manual recount if there’s a question.
Perhaps the margin gets thinner because Floridians actually preferred Gore?
Somebody is definitely shitting on America, and it’s the pouting, hypocritical, bitchy, power-mad asshole named Dubya.
Color me confused, but what exactly do Texas election laws have to do with Florida election laws? After all, it’s the Florida law that Gore & Co have been basing all of this on, no?
In [url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46117 this thread I made the following remarks:
The hypocrisy of the Texas law signed by Bush has already been raised by others.
What’s bullshit is this statement. The procedure for a manual count has provisions in place to minimize both mistakes and any opportunity for fraud. You can see them outlined in the thread linked above.
This is also bullshit. There have been manual recounts before in both Florida and other states. There are manual counts occurring now in New Mexico, with the blessings of the Bush campaign. There were manual recounts conducted in Seminole county days ago, conducted with the blessings of the Bush campaign.
corrected link
[sub]my kingdom for an edit feature[/sub]
Oh, and Amulet:
The relevance is that it demonstrates yet another level of hypocrisy in Bush’s position that hand recounts are inherently less accurate than machine counts since he signed into law the Texas statute giving preference to manual recounts over machine recounts.
The relevance of the Texas statute I quoted above is not in itself relevant to the vote contest going on now in Florida. Rather, the it is relevant to the lawsuit that the Bush campaign just filed, which asserts that a manual recount would somehow diminish the accuracy or constitutionality of the vote.
It is relevant because this law, the amendment to which was signed by Governor Bush, shows the hypocracy of the Bush campaign’s statements in the suit.
In order for the hypocrisy charge to stick, the ballots and counting mechanisms have to be identical in both states. I don’t know what the ballots in Texas look like, or how the machine reads them, so it is very possible that what would make sense in one area would not make sense in another.
(I am displeased with this development, however. Don’t get me wrong, I’m just not sure if the accusation of hypocrisy holds true.)
However, would this not make Daley and Jackson front line hypocrites, too, for protesting as ‘confusing’ a ballot nearly identical to the one they used in Illinois?