Just got back from the theater about an hour ago. Wow, it was EXCELLENT! I liked FOTR, TTT was pretty good, but this one was just badass. Some thoughts, in no particular order:
The lighting of the beacons was probably my favorite part. It was just way freaking cool how you’d just see the tips of mountains coming up through the mist, then the top would light on fire.
Legolas is a stud! He totally took charge of that giant elephant thing! I thought it would have been cool if he would have taken the reins and charged it through the orcs but hey, whatever works.
The tower walls crumbled weirdly. I didn’t like how all the bricks just tumbled down like they were stacked on top of each other without anything holding them together.
Okay, I KNEW Frodo was going go throw the ring into the fire eventually, but when the big spider stabbed him and wrapped him up, I really thought that he might truly be dead. And I totally knew that Sam had taken the ring. When the orcs came by and took mummy-Frodo away, I thought to myself “Sam took the ring, theres no way he would have left it”.
“I found it far more impactful that Frodo technically “survived”, but as an empty, tortured shell of his former self.”
Like I said I haven’t read the books but the film certainly doesn’t convey this. He just seems to have an injury.
“Death, I think, is an easy and unintelligent way to try to insert a tragic parting in a story. “Hey, Bob, I want a sad ending… what should I do?” “Kill the main character!””
I disagree. If your main characters are supposed to be fighting against desperate odds it’s natural that at least a few of them get killed. Having them survive miraculously again and again and again is what seems artificial.
I thought ROTK was ok. Like clairobscure, I wasn’t convinced by a lot of it. At the beginning, I was really afraid I was not going to like it at ALL.
But then there was the Charge of the Rohirrim. And Dernhelm/Eowyn vs. the head Nazgul. I’ll forgive PJ a fair amount for those two scenes.
And the epilogue scenes back in the Shire/at the Grey Havens were good too.
But I didn’t like the sequel-itis of Gollum arguing with himself (but this time with HIS REFLECTION!!! GASP!!!), and I though Legolas on the Mumak was just stupid. All I could think of was the thread here that basically said “What will that crazy Legolas do in ROTK?” Well, now we know.
I also hated the Mumakil there on the battlefield, and the Rohirrim charging them.
Now that I’ve seen all three films, the only movie I really think that was true to the book was FOTR. I don’t really think seeing either TTT or ROTK added anything to my Tolkien experience.
I’m not arguing with you, but I don’t see how they could have done this any other way. They had to explain his plan with Shelob, or else it just looks like another monster they have to face and not part of his trap.
In our audience, they applauded for Legolas, for Sam when he showed up with Shelob, when Eowyn took out You-Know-Who and when the eagles arrived initially.
Eowyn’s kill got the applause in our audience, too.
Dunno. For some reason this one just didn’t resonate with me as much as the others did. I think it’s because, oddly, this is the only one I pretty much knew most, if not all, of the story to. Nothing excited me too much about it. There were some really great scenes, and Sam (always my favorite character) had some excellent moments (carrying Frodo, and having that last drink for courage when they’re back in the shire) but… I dunno. Liked it. It was good. Just liked the other ones better.
Have to agree, also, with the palantir thing- either explain it or don’t have it at all. Seemed ‘tacked on’ at the level it was at.
I’ve read the books twice, once when I was young and once 4 or so years ago when I heard the movies were being made. For me, over the last three years the entire experience has been surreal, like watching my imagination projected on screen (actually Tolkein’s channeled through me). At the outset I never thought it would end up this good, and after seeing the final installment I can honestly say I’ve never seen anything like it. Tolkein and Tolkein through Peter jackson have created an amazing twin set of landmark achievements in literature and cinema, in a genre that previously held little credibility. Just as the books are the benchmark for epic fantasy novels, the movies will become the measuring stick for all future epic fantasy/adventure movies. Ladies and gentlemen, the stake is set firmly in the ground.
I have to join up wi’ those who didn’t like the handling of Denethor and the palantirs.
I was just waitin’ to see Grima pitch the thing out of Orthanc. Instead, Pip just FINDS the thing on the ground. Why? The water never got high enough to flood Saruman’s private chambers. Maybe he just got fed up with it… or maybe he was tired of screening his calls when Sauron rang?
The TT EE gives us, in one brief scene, an excellent explanation of why Faramir has such a rough relationship with Denethor. For some reason, it was cut. In the ROTK EE, I suspect, we will have an excellent explanation of why Denethor went fruity-gumballs: he was playin’ with HIS palantir too much, Sauron was diddling with his mind, and he finally gave up and went nuts when the cave trolls started ringin’ his doorbell… as in the book. This would also explain Denethor’s complete knowledge of all the bad news (without being told) when Gandalf and Pippin walked in on him.
Instead, we just get this picture of a rather unpleasant old man who isn’t wrapped too tight… who goes completely bughouse when things get tough… and suddenly comes to his senses after Gandalf slaps him around and pitches him onto a bonfire (a pretty serious departure from the book). His first act of sanity involves bursting into flames and running screaming off one of the upper ramparts of a very tall building.
Having said all that, here’s my nitpick review of ROTK, in which I still give it a 10 out of 10.
nits:
Liv Tyler makes my teeth grind when she tries to act. I think that’s it rather than me just not liking the set of Arwen sequences. A more accomplished actress could have added tons more poignancy to the role.
the movie started out slow (in part due to “see above”). Didn’t really like the Smeagol\Deagol scene.
the CGI seemed a little less seamless then in TTT. The charge of the Rhohirrim, parts of the battle of Pelennor field, the Super-Legolas scene, and the towers falling all seemed a little video-gamish. If I may be so crude as to bring up a WTC reference - collapsing towers produce a crapload of dust.
I’m not a big fan of the whole Gollum/Smeagol split personality scene in TTT, and was rather immediately disappointed to see another one.
add me to the list of of people who were disappointed that Minas Tirith looked like it could have come down en masse with another dozen or so catapult strikes.
picks:
depictation of seige warfare was again top-notch and inventive in some cases.
CGI: the Fell Beasts looked awesome, the wargs looked more real, Gollum again was incredible, and Shelob was just nasty looking.
the battle scenes were overwhelming.
the pacing of the movie was fantastic.
That’s all I can think of for now…I’ll let you guys fill in the rest.
Am I the only one that felt that there wasn’t enough closure with any of the characters? The last scene in which we saw anything of the fellowship of the ring was when they bowed to the hobbits. A quick farewell or maybe a follow up on what they did would have helped.
Also, did anyone who hadn’t read the book but seen the movie know where Frodo went at the end? It would have seemed very confusing to me if I hadn’t read the books.
Well, Treebeard does mention that a piece of his bark is stuck to the Palantir, so presumably Saruman (or Grima) threw it at him during the siege. Not that it’s shown, of course.
My favorite part, too, was the lighting of the beacons. Man, that looked awesome! But I wonder…what happens if someone lights the beacon by accident? Is there a separate “all clear” beacon system?
And what’s with all the empty space between Osgiliath & Minas Tirith? I’d expect there to be some outbuildings and farms out there…where did Gondor locate its agriculture?
Legolas vs. oliphaunt was boss. Same with Wiki. And when Frodo shoved Gollum off the cliff (the first time) I was sorely tempted to call out, “'Ee’s not quite dead yet!”
I loved how Sam’s dialogue in Mt. Doom was exactly the same as the Elrond/Isildur scene from FOTR, with one significant change: “Just let it go!” instead of “Destroy it!” (Hey! That WAS from the Indiana Jones movie!!) And the audience applauded when Sam & Rosie got married. Sweet.
Not much to add. Saw it today on a giant screen with loud sound and really enjoyed it. Some of the posts here cleared up some of my confusion. I never read any of the books. The dead fighters reminded me of Pirates of the Carribbean. Most of the tone of the movie is dark. The audience applauded many times, and of course there were “cat calls” for Legolas. At the end, they were even doing it for the dwarf! Overall: a brilliant movie, and very much overdue. Now I must read these books…
I’m not the biggest fan of the books, but thoroughly enjoyed the first two movies. Pretty much everything I liked about those were present here (as you would expect), but the editing was just so sloppy, and there were so many extraneous story pieces. They may have made sense to those well acquainted with the books, but to others it is just kind of weird.
Talking to people after the movie, nobody really had any understanding of what was going on with the boat at the end. It was touched on throughout TTT and ROTK, but it wasn’t ever explained well. Meanwhile, other things have to be explained twice (the cursed army gets explained and then experienced. Shelob gets explained and then experienced) taking up even more time.
Also, nobody unfamilliar with the books had any clue what was going on with the crazy king guy. It just seemed totally weird and out of place. That whole subplot could have been cut without harm, I think.
I can’t say I didn’t enjoy myself most of the time, but I also almost fell asleep a couple of times.
If he had just tightened it up another 45 minutes (or perhaps left it another 45 longer) I imagine I would have been completely enthralled.
My other complain that I forgot to mention is that timelines seem completely screwed up. When Arragorn and army start fighting at the gate (at the end) is when the Eye stops looking at Frodo. At that point, it appears they are still several hours rough hiking (especially in their condition) from where they need to get. Yet, from the perspective of the fighting army, it appears they cover that ground and destroy the ring within a few minutes.
Similarly, the orc army marches all the way from their starting point (where Frodo, Sam, and Gollum watch them leave) to Gondor in the same time it takes Frodo, Sam, and Gollum to climb the stairs.
Similarly, it is night when Pippin sees Denethor about to do his evil deed. He runs from teh top of the city tot he bottom, night becomes day, he sees some battle, he tells Gandalf, they ride back up to the top. All in the time it takes for Denethor to climb onto the pyre, pour some oil and ask to be lit.
Throughout the movie I was waiting for wormholes to be offered as a magical means of transportation.
I know it happened to an extent in the other movies, but it just kept slapping me in the face with this one.
Ah, man that was great. Just got back, and it was everything I wanted. Loved it. Almost perfect. Almost.
There were some quibbles: no Saruman, for example. And I’d have liked to see Aragorn arriving with the ships handled more like the novel: from the POV of the defenders of Minas Tirith. One of my favorite parts of the book was them seeing the black sails, thinking they’re doomed, and then seeing them flying the White Tree of Gondor, and realizing that Aragorn has taken the ships. Still, the Armies of the Dead charging across the harbor rocked.
Similarly, I was a little disappointed that PJ couldn’t find a way to pull of Eowyn’s surprise reveal. Still, I can’t imagine how he could have pulled it off.
I was also surprised that they didn’t mention Denethor’s palantir, but I’m guessing it’ll be in the EE. Also, when he threw himself off of the top of Minas Tirith, my first thought was, “Wonder when he’ll be back?” Because in Middle Earth, it is impossible to die by falling from a great height. I guess everyone just bounces. Of course, Denethor was also on fire, so maybe that’s what did him in.
The siege was great. The catapults did a lot of damage, but it was a big damn city. When the camera pulled out, you could see how much of Minas Tirith there was to be destroyed. I loved the way the giant stone they fired back didn’t bounce when they hit. A lot of CGI tends to look weightless, like there’s no real mass there. Those rocks looked heavy.
I’ve gotta say, PJ did manage to make the eagles showing up at the very end ever so slightly less a transparent plot device than Tolkien did. The moth was a very nice touch.
Fuck. I can’t believe they did it. Lord of the Rings. Live action. Three movies in three years. And it was good! Holy shit! I do believe in miracles! I do! I do!
A bit of an epic fantasy convention, that, like many others, Tolkien can take a fair bit of credit ( or blame, if you prefer ) for fostering.
If you want a grittier experience, try George R.R. Martin’s epic ‘Song of Ice and Fire’ fantasy series. The fantasy elements are initially much less overt and are more gradually introduced, the bad guys and good guys are a little more complex and less clear-cut and I don’t think it is an awful spoiler to say that you never have a clue what’s going to happen, because Martin gives absolutely no sense of safety. Anybody can snuff it in his books. Some folks really don’t like the fact that beloved and seemingly central characters are so vulnerable, but if you want a more realistic casualty rate, Martin has it in spades. Three ( long ) books so far, with two more pending ( the fourth is well overdue ), all well worth reading. Highly recommended.
As for the movie - eh, what everyone else said, both positive and negative :D. I went in tonight tired and cranky, which limited my enjoyment a bit, but as a series of films it truly is a great achievement and far better than I would have predicted.
Overall: a brilliant movie, and very much overdue. Now I must read these books…