POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD
Okay, so this might be covered in other threads, but there is no thread specifically for it, as far as I can tell.
First: I loved the movie, thought it was great…
But a few questions rose to mind.
How do you all think they are going to clip Return of the King, in order to get the stuff they missed in The Two Towers? I was so jazzed about seeing Shelob in this one, only to be a little miffed by her not being there. I assume from Gollem’s rambling that she will be in the next one.
So what do you think they will cut out from the third book in order to get finished with the second?
You know, I kept looking at my watch, thinking to myself: Okay, they have 15 minutes, that should be plenty of time. So then 5 minutes left, and I’m like…Um…are they going to do this quickly?:eek:
Was weird cause, TT was my fave of the 3. From the hunt, thru the ents, Helm’s Deep, to Shelob.
My recollection was that the 1st movie ended pretty much where the first book did. So I assumed the 2d would as well. Tho I’ve read the books many many times over 25-30 years (including outloud to my kids when they were WAY to young to appreciate it!;)), it’s been a couple of years since the last time, and I have not been looking at any hype about the movies.
So I’m asking her:
And didn’t Sam see Shelob stinging Frodo?
No.
And then Sam stabbed Shelob?
No.
And then Sam thought Frodo was dead and he took the ring?
No.
AndtheorcsfindFrodoandcarryhimoffandSamoverhearsthatheisonlyparalyzedbecauseSheloblikeshermeatfreshcausingSamtobearingbearerandsettingupthefantasticresuceinthefinalbook? (pant pant)
No
She also said there was nothing of Merry riding behind Eowyn, and nothing of Pippin in Gondor. Really has me questioning my recollection of what happens when in the books.
Oh well - she says the ents are way cool!
I don’t remember my dad being this much of a geek!
And of course I think what I meant to say in the above post was that PJ appears to be following the events of the book chronologically from Appendix B versus where they appear in the books. I’ve beard him say that if he had Shelob in the TT there wouldn’t be much for Sam and Frodo to do in ROTK. Frodo spends a lot of time in ROTK lying on the ground staring at the sky as a zombie. I would guess that makes for dull cinema, especially for we hobbit fanciers.
Well, he’s not quite going chronologically either, since Two Towers also didn’t include the reunion of the hobbits with Gimli, Legolas, and Aragorn nor the breaking of Saruman’s staff.
Peter Jackson has said several times, and it’s very clear, that his deviations from the books are necessary for good movie story-telling. Works for me.
Return of the King is gonna be chock-full: the downfall of Saruman, the palantir, Denethor, the battle of the Pelennor fields and slaying of the Witch King, Denethor, and the attack on the Black Gate in the west; and Shelob, the orcs, wandering through Mordor, and the Cracks of Doom in the east. And then the wrap ups.
The Aragorn and co. plot was the action plot. It climaxed with the the battle of Helm’s Deep.
The Frodo plot was more character driven. It had to end on a psychological note (Gollum deciding to betray the hobbits), rather than an action note (Sam fighting Shelob then rushing after Frodo) as the book did.
Also, while “Frodo was alive, but in the hands of the enemy” is one of the most kick-ass cliffhangers I’ve ever heard, it would be torture to keep us hanging on that for a whole year.
I’m thinking: start with Shelob, clip out the Scouring completely, and most other major things will be included, plus the reunion at Isengard and the whole Saruman’s staff/Palantir plot.
ROTK has the fewest actual pages, but I’m sure PJ will want to expound greatly on some of the actionier scenes. Also, Elijah Wood stated in a recent interview that he “wouldn’t be surprised” if ROTK ended up 3 and a half hours long.
The scouring of the Shire is definately out. I’m somewhat of a purist but this is the one cut that doesn’t bother me at all. It was probably my least favorite part of the three books. You guys took Tom Bombadil from me last year, I get to take the scouring of the Shire next year .
And just in case anyone curious, someone in another thread gave a logical explanation as to why they can’t do the scouring. Basically they only have the audiences attention for so long after the quest is complete. The scouring would be a good 20 or 30 extra minutes spent on something that hasn’t been seen since the start of the first movie anyway.
Which is a interesting cinematic formula…the amount of time deemed suitable after a climax. I’m thinking off the top of my head about many films (Braveheart, The Matrix, The Star Wars Trilogy) and those films probably don’t go on longer than 5 minutes after the climax.
As a recent LOTR reader, I understand how the Scouring is somewhat incidental to the main story, but I wouldn’t mind seeing it on the screen.
Given the rohirrim’s cryptic comments about a “back way” out of Helm’s Deep, and the looks of horror on their faces when Aragorn suggested the women and children escape the orcs that way, I’m anticipating a nice “paths of the dead” sequence in ROTK!
I don’t think there will be too much of a problem incorporating the end of TTT into ROTK. I did initially have a problem with it (after I saw it the first time), but I’ve softened my stance. Consider:
[ul]
[li] ROTK is the shortest book. Nearly 1/4 are Appendices[/li][li] Mt Doom happens about 2/3-way thru the rest of the book. The last six chapters including the farewell tour and scouring don’t need to be in the movie in their entirety.[/li][li] There are fewer characters to introduce. Denethor, and maybe Imrahil, Beregond, and Bergil (none of which are on IMDB).[/li][li] The end of TTT won’t take too long with Gandalf vs Saruman, Palantir, Aragorn to Paths of the Dead, and Gandalf and later Roharrim starting off to Gondor. Heck, they might be able to get all that in before the “ROTK” title comes in.[/li][li] Frodo & Sam’s Stairs, Shelob, Cirith Ungol, and wandering through Mordor take up less chapters than all of Book V[/li][li] Battle of the Morannon doesn’t need to take long, but they better have the Mouth of Sauron![/li][/ul]
Not to say there won’t be some issues.
Helm’s Deep seemed to take up a lot of screen time TTT, and Pelennor must overwhelm HD’s battle scenes.
I imagine they’ll have to show more of Pelargir and the Corsairs, to give popular Gimli and esp Legolas more screen time.
HubZilla - I remember seeing Denethor on the official site before FotR even came out and I’m pretty sure he used to be listed on IMDB though you’re right that’s he’s not there now. I noticed that too. I’m 99% sure he’s in though.
The Mouth of Sauron is definately in. They have a listing for him and a picture/bio of the guy that plays him on one of the big sites (theonering.net maybe? I get them all confused.)
I’m beginning to feel more reassured that the dreaded Arwen/Witch King scenario is a baseless rumor. If that was planned, then why show Eowyn flourishing about with a sword in TTT? Why the “I fear a cage/you are a daughter of kings, that will not be your fate” speech? I trust PJ not to pull a switcheroo; that’s one of the most beloved scenes in the book, and he has shown that he respects the best scenes so far.
Well, they started a little bit ahead, since the beginning of the Two Towers (the death of Boromir) was covered at the end of the Fellowship movie. As somebody else already pointed out, it makes sense to postpone it until the third movie, otherwise Frodo and Sam would have nothing to do except be depressed and then get chewed on. And I think after the Balrog, Gollum, Nazgul, and Ents, having a giant spider would just be overkill, monster overload.
And with all that, there’s no way they’re going to have enough screen-time left to cram in Frodo and Sam’s return to the overrun Shire and the mustering of the hobbits against Sharkey.
I think it’s pretty safe to say that the Scouring was never filmed, and thus has no chance of even an extended edition appearence, isn’t it?
Which bugs me, because I always thought that was one of the best themes of the story. You can, in fact, go home again, but what you’ve experienced has changed you, so you may not think of home the same way when you return. Or possibly, without new experiences, you’ll never grow/change, and can never reach your true potential.
.