From the prologue to LOTR: “Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves… But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered. The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten. Only the Elves still preserve any records of that vanished time… in which Men appear seldom and Hobbits are not mentioned at all.”
One of the reasons Hobbits make good Ringbearers is that no one regards them as being of any importance.
Certain things in LOTR could be hints that Hobbits are most closely related to the people of Rohan. The ancient languages of both people are similar, but completely different from the Common Tongue spoken by most other people. Both peoples formerly lived in the upper Anduin Valley. Two of the earliest Hobbit names recorded, Marcho and Blanco, mean “horse,” an animal of which the Rohirrim are rather fond.
He would have taken them, not taken them back. Sauron never touched the three elven rings.
Theoretically, Sauron could have given the rings from the Dwarves to Men, eventually creating more Nazgul.
One thing that makes me wonder, in the end of Return of the King, things get wrapped up for much of the fellowship; but there are a few things I’m hazy on-
1.) Now that Aragorn is King of Gondor, wouldn’t that put Faramir out of a job?
2.) What ever happened to Legolas and Gimli? Did Legolas, being an elf and all, leave with the others? They mentioned the ship that took Frodo, Bilbo and co was the last ship left. What about the other elves still on Middle Earth? are the SOL?
Faramir was made Prince of Ithilien (the part of the kingdom east of the Anduin, which he had defended most of his life as leader of the Rangers of Ithilien). Faramir, unlike his father, was happy to step down from his position as heir apparent to the Stewardship. After all, the job of the Ruling Stewards was to lead the kingdom until the return of the king.
In the book, Legolas took ship (along with Gimli, a unique happening) after Aragorn died, 120 years after the War of the Ring. Most of the Elves had left ME at this point. The only ones really left were the Silvan Elves, a few Sindar, and Elrond’s children. It’s unclear whether or not Elrohir and Elladan ever went over sea. Arwen obviously did not. Celeborn, I believe, remained king in the section of Mirkwood that the Silvan Elves moved to after Galadriel’s Ring stopped working and the maintenance of Lothlorien ended.
Yes, the Steward’s out of work what with the King hisself returned and all, but Aragorn gives Faramir (and Eowyn, by extension) a chunk of land along the river to rule as a fiefdom/barony/somesuch.
He gets a demotion from ruling Gondor to just ruling part of it, so to speak.
The last ship is olny the last one in the movie. Years after the fact, Samwise, as the last ringbearer, takes ship to the west.
As for Middle Earth’s version of the odd-couple, they wander the landscape, eventually come to the Havens, and Legolas builds a small boat, and the two set sail for the undying lands themselves.
[sub]Or so says my spotty memory of the appendices.[/sub]
He does remain Steward of Gondor – but the job goes back to what it originally was, the Grand Vizier carrying out the will of the King and advising him when appropriate. The Ruling Stewards only “took the throne” because Earnil II, the last King before Aragorn, was captured and imprisoned in Minas Morgul, not killed (so far as anyone know for sure), and there was no heir of Elendil left after him.
And “Prince of Ithilien” is a real honor – Gondor had up until this time had only one Prince, Imrahil of Dol Amroth and his ancestors. So this was not in the sense of a demotion but creating a new and important honor for him.
Minor nitpick: Legolas built the ship he and Gimli used rather than hitch a ride on one of Cirdan’s. Maybe Cirdan had left by then. The ship was constructed in Ithilien and the two (maybe with some others) sailed down the Anduin to the sea and thence West.
Two questions, one of which has more to deal with someone explaining Peter Jackson’s take on an issue.
Just what do dwarves and elves eat? Yes, yes, lembas wafers and meat and ale and all of that, but do they have any agriculture? I can’t see the dwarves raising crops inside Moria, and an elvish swineherd just doesn’t seem to fit. Or do they import their grain from hobbits and men? The economy of Middle-Earth is somewhat shady, it seems…
In the text, Bilbo doesn’t suffer the effects of his age until the ring is destroyed. One would assume that Gollum would have turned to dust had he not fallen. In Peter Jackson’s eyes, Bilbo began aging as soon as he gave up the ring, whereas Gollum had lost the ring for 80 years and hadn’t changed a bit.
Cinematic license, or is there a way to explain the discrepancy?
-regarding Bilbo’s/Gollum’s/Frodo’s aging processes,I think discrepancies from book were just cinematic license on PJ’s part. This doesn’t bother me except for the really bad makeup on Bilbo.
-regarding what happened to Legolas & Gimli: Also remember they lead some of their respective countrymen to Ithilien and Minas Tirith to help restore the land and city after the war.
-I think the fact that the War is ongoing in other parts of Middle Earth was really important in the book (re, what were the other dwarves and elves doing), but very hard to get across in the movie.
-I always thought it was cool that in the books you found out what happened to just about everybody, really - Eomer, Butterbur, Fatty Bolger, the Sackville-Bagginses
Éomer became King of the Mark at Théoden’s death at the Pellenor Fields. He married a woman of Gondor, Lothíriel, and had a son, Elfwine. Éomer was the first king of the third line.
Well, look at it this way. In both the film and the book, Bilbo gave up the ring. He put it down, and walked away voluntarily, difficult though it was for him. At that point, his natural age started creeping up on him.
Gollum lost the ring in the dark under the mountain, but he didn’t give the thing to Bilbo. He never turned his back on it, as it were, so he never got out from under its influence.
At least, it works that way in the flick. I don’t recall offhand if Bilbo looks noticeably older to Frodo when they arrive in Rivendell, or not. I do recall that he sleeps a great deal more, so he was (one could guess) feeling his true age, whether he looked it or not.
“For though Sauron had passed, the hatreds and evils that he bred had not died, and the King of the West had many enemies to subdue before the White Tree could grow in peace. And wherever King Elessar went with war King Eomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhun and on the far fields of the South the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Eomer grew old.”
If by that you mean how do they reproduce, in roughly the same manner as Men, Elves, Dwarves. (The Uruk-hai in the mud were PJ’s idea.) If you mean how did orcs come about in the first place, there’s no definite answer in The Lord of the Rings. Treebeard says the Dark Lord (Morgoth) made them “in mockery” of Elves. Materials compiled and published after Tolkien’s death give conflicting information about their origin.
Maybe that’s why no one ever saw a fat Elf. But Dwarves and Elves would have had a lot of goods to trade for food if they needed to. Dwarves were miners, and both surpassed men at certain arts and crafts. Some Elves hunted, and others had fruit trees. They may have had gardens or just been adept at living off the land.
Questions: If Isildur had thrown the One Ring into the fire when Elrond wanted him to at the end of the Second Age, would that have meant the end of the Elves in Middle Earth, as it did at the end of the Third Age? During the Second Age, were Rivendell and Lorien the hidden, mystical kingdoms they became in the Third? Would they have been destroyed if Isildur threw the One Ring in?
More questions: Why did Celeborn stay in Middle Earth after Galadriel left? They were married for what, like, two Ages, so why break up then? Did he ever sail West? And what happened to the Elves that remained in Middle Earth during the Fourth Age? Did they eventually die of grief and world-weariness as Arwen did?
Why didn’t the other Istari, Radagast and the Blue Wizards, get involved in the doings of Middle Earth?
Even tho (as I said before) Tolkien lets us know what happens to almost everybody, there are a few things he didn’t tell. So we geeks have topics to endlessly speculate about. Here are my speculations on some of them:
-I think the other wizards were involved, only very far away. How much worse would the war have gone without them? Also, Radagast was much more concerned with animals than men, elves, etc.
-I see Celeborn and Galadriel as having a not-so-happy union. Something like certain kings and queens of our own days.
-Did Elrond’s sons leave with him, or stay behind with their sister? We just don’t know. We do know they were pretty attached to Aragorn - fought with him, probably thought of him as a brother.
-Good question re what would have happened if Isildur had destroyed the ring. I never considered that before.
-Can’t recall - Did the dwarfs return to Moria? Were there other Balrogs? Other geeks - please help
