Things that irritate me about my spouse

The BBQ Pit
21

Tried counting to ten before posting… didn’t work!

Awright Freedom, if you are still reading, I am calling you out. This quote, combined with your previous post, struck me as total macho bullshit. While I agree with your basic premise, which is don’t take shit when it isn’t due you, I DON’T agree with the drop-it-and-walk approach. Not very conducive to communication. WTF would you do if you said something to your best friend and said friend just turned their back and left? Would you reconsider your words and see the error of your ways? I wouldn’t. I’d think “Fine, thanks for the show of respect. Fuckhead.” Maybe I would regret what I’d said, provided I realized WHAT I had said, but it would be mighty hard for me to swallow my pride and go groveling back for an apology after such a display of superiority! You think you’re the only one who’s proud? Ain’t so. Turning your back on someone is just about the biggest insult there is. Is there a more effective way to communicate your disdain and lack of respect for someone? Why make it so fucking difficult to get along?

This tactic also reeks of a power struggle. As in, “We will communicate only on my terms. Woman.” Listen, no one has the right to abuse their SO all the time. But rather than escalating it with a huge ego trip, how about actually addressing the problem?

Freedom, if you meant by your post that you walk away until you’re calm enough to come back and discuss things rationally, together, then that’s great. Disregard my post, because you’ve obviously got it under control.

BUT, if you meant “I walk away until she’s good and ready to come back to ME and treat me how I oughtta be treated,” then all I can say is that attitude sucks ass. No you shouldn’t take all the shit. But why not exert a little bit of effort to see where she’s coming from? Wouldn’t you cut a good buddy some slack if he said something that pissed you off? Both of your posts here communicated to ME a real lack of respect for women as fellow humans.

But I could be wrong. Feel free to ignore me if I am.
Respectfully,

Ivy

Not Bitchy Unless Provoked

22

What have you ever learned about marraige. Every person from 20-100 years old know:

Don’t Go to Bed Angry at Each Other

There is no reason for you to sleep on the couch, ever. If you want this relationship to work you need:

  1. A babysitter
    [li]Bring her to dinner once a payday at least.[/li] [li]Talk about things besides the baby[/li] [li]Flirt with her[/li]2) A Vacation
    [li]Where Grandma and Grandpa or the closest realtion takes the baby[/li] [li]Explain to her what the problems have been in the relationship.[/li] [li]Lots of Na-Na[/li]3) Hi Opal!
23

… to AWB. I don’t want to hijack your thread by jumping on Freedom for his comments. I did feel that what he said needed to be addressed, but I don’t want to derail your topic.

Respectfully,

Ivy

Not a Bitch, Really I’m not! See, I was nice just now… :slight_smile:

24

hmmm…

Not being abusive towards the woman you love is macho bullshit? Or maybe it demanding respect from the woman you love that is macho bullshit. I can’t tell what you think is so over the line in my posts.
I don’t so dishes. I don’t cook. I don’t do the laundry.
THOSE are macho bullshit statements.

My statements are just plain macho:) The bottom line here is that I am a man. If she wanted to love another woman then she would be a lesbian. According to my “Man Handbook” a man should not give unwarranted shit, and he should not accept it.

And it should be a cold day in hell before he apoligizes for someone else giving HIM shit.

Maybe screaming and shouting would be better? The world I live in is not perfect. I do not expect for my SO to come into the kitchen, insult me, then have me rationaly explain my feelings of pain, have her instantly examine her motivations, apoligize and then continue cooking the chicken.

It just doesn’t happen that way. Here’s a hint:

If you are acting like a bitch, then the atmosphere is already not “conducive to communication.”

Well, since he’s a guy, we would handle it differently.
:slight_smile:

Seriously though, we would handle it differently because we have a different relationship. I do not sleep with him every night. Our lives are not combined. We are not planning on raising children. etc…

The sex of the person you are dealing with does matter to some extent. Us guys have a guy thing going on. Maybe not all guys, but the ones I know do. If you want to pretend that there are not general differences between how guys and girls react to situations, then you can keep on pretending. In the meantime, I will deal with men one way, and I will deal with women another way.

Are you reading the same thread I am?

Guy in the kitchen. Cooking. Helping out. Minding his own business.

Wife comes in and treats him like shit.

Guy looks at woman and says “I don’t deserve that, you know that was abusive.”

Woman snaps again.

Man looks at her, nods, and walks out of the room.

Now only in YOUR world could this be interpreted to mean,

The guy has just insulted the wife, shown complete disdain and lack of respect for her, and seems dedicated to making it difficult to get along.

I will repeat:

I would rather be dead or single than live the rest of my life in a relationship like that.

HA!

Sure there is a power struggle.

She is struggling to be able to be as abusive as she wants without any responsibility for her actions, while he is struggling for peaceful calm relationship.

Boy, what horrible terms to communicate on:(

You know, that is EXACTLY what I meant.

I don’t need an apology. I don’t need to rehash the whole arguement. Simply treating me with the normal respect you would treat any other random human being with is sufficient.

You seem to be under this impression that the person throwing around insults should be coddled and not held responsible for the actions. If I insult a friend, then I expect to apoligize for it. I then expect forgiveness. That is why we are friends.

I love the Future Mrs. Freedom more than this. I don’t expect apologies, I don’t demand explanations, I don’t hold grudges and I give instant forgiveness once the moment has passed.

But if a woman thinks she can be abusive and disrespectful to her man and he allows it, then that behavior will only grow. You have to be comfortable with yourself and know when to draw the line. There has to be a point where it is better to just be out of the relationship.

If you do not let your SO know where that point is, then you shouldn’t complain when she walks all over you.

No, my posts communicated that every person is responsible for how they treat the people they love. A hard day at work, a stressful commute or a crying baby do not justify abusing your SO on a continuing basis.

Your posts however, have communicated an obvious double standard. I would love to hear your response if a woman had posted the OP with the roles reversed.

…wouldn’t that be the same as just walking away?:slight_smile:

25

Thank God for Mrs. RickJay. In all these years she’s NEVER acted like this, nor have I. I can’t imagine either of us behaving in such a manner.

No offense, guys, but I’m shocked people behave like that towards their SOs. Maybe we’re weird or something.

26

“Men and women, women and men. It will never work.”

-Erica Jong

27

Take the babysitter to dinner, talk about things besides the baby, and flirt with her? OK, if you say so, but I think it would just precipitate more fights with my wife. Or should I bring her along too? :D:D:D

28

(italics emphasis mine)

(italics emphasis mine)

Yep, just like a good coon dog. Ya gotta take 'em from their mommas when they’re young and raise 'em up right by ya, ya got to learn 'em what’s right.
Small note–“demanding respect” from someone you love who is supposed to be your equal can’t work. Either the respect or the equality has to give.

29

evilbeth:

This statement makes no sense to my people (I’m from Earth). Respect is not something that is only passed between those of unequal status. My coworkers/ girlfriend/ friends/ siblings/ fellow Dopers and I are equals. We also respect each other.

These two concepts are not opposed or contradictory, and by your seeming implication that one can come only at the expense of the other, well…I’m just glad I’m not married to you.

The verb “to demand” often has a negative connotation, but it shouldn’t. It’s perfectly proper and adult to demand respect, even (perhaps especially) from the people who are closest to you.

AWB, I’ve got the perfect solution: you flirt with your wife while I take the babysitter to dinner.

30

Wow, that really sounds like a bad situation. I can tell you one thing, though. This:

Deserves an apology. I don’t know why she is acting like that either, but no one deserves that kind of bullshit, disrespecful treatment. IMHO, When someone is helping you, you BITE YOUR TONGUE before criticizing the job they are doing, or don’t ask them to help at all.

Real example that happened last week:

I had a long, hard day of schoolwork and grocery shopping, etc. When I got home, my husband (who normally does NO housework at all) had cleaned up the house beautifully and was washing the dishes. (in the 7 years we’ve been together, I think it was the 3rd time I’ve seen his hands in dishwater.)Toward the end of the dishwashing session, he elbows my crock-pot, which was sitting precariously on the edge of the sink. (he put it there). It falls to the floor and shatters into a million pieces, soapy water and grease along with it. Everywhere. (I use my crockpot at least 3 times a week)

What do you do? What my REACTION was (internally): Moron!!! I can’t believe you did that?? Look at this fucking mess! AAARRGGHH! How could you put a soapy crock-pot on the edge of the sink?? Could you not SEE that it was going to fall off??? Dumbass!

Actual interaction: “Man, what a mess! Let’s get this picked up and mopped”. He was apologetic, and I said “Look, don’t worry about it. You were really sweet to help out with the housework and I’m so grateful for that.” We cleaned up the mess, and by the time we were done, the “crisis” was over and I wasn’t mad anymore. I have taken the stance that things like a recipe or a broken crock-pot or whatever are simply not worth getting in an arguement about. He was helping, and there was an accident-that’s all there is to it.

I’m not saying that’s how everyone should act, but I can tell you that’s how he treats me, too and it’s very nice. Accidents are not yelled about, and problems are discussed, not ranted about.

IMHO, the OP and his wife should see someone to discuss proper “fighting” rules. Blatent disrespect, rudeness, and insults are the things that destroy marriages FAST. No one likes to be treated like that.

Zette

31

I’m glad you posted Five.

I had read her post 4 or 5 times and couldn’t make heads nor tails of what she was saying.
I don’t get the point of the italics, and the part about demanding respect makes no sense.
evilbeth

I have a fairly simple way about my life. I am blunt and honest with people. I treat people with respect. In return I expect the same.

I have found that many people appreciate this, and we develop friendships. Others don’t, and we go on our seperate ways.

Strangely, my group of friends doesn’t have a “soap opera” like existence. We rarely have problems between us, and when we do, the solution is usually obvious since we share the same standards.

We treat others as we expect to be treated, and we don’t have personal relationships with people who don’t return the favor.
If that’s so bad…

Then maybe my name should be EvilFreedom:)
Slight addition to my previous post:

I just want to add that being treated abusively by someone does not entitle you to treat them abusively in return. Each person is responsible for their own behavior. An adult does not pass the buck on their responsibility and find excuses to justify things they did wrong.

If you are treating someone badly, then you are responsible. This works both ways.
Period.

32

I don’t know about that, but when my husband and I were first dating, I was a real wonderbitch. I’ve undergone a real personality change since then (through a lot of personal work).
Anyway, one of the first things he did when were were dating was call me out when I said something very rude to him. He basically said (but did not yell), “Look, I like you a lot, and I think we could really have something together, but get one thing straight. ** No one ** talks to me like that. Ever. Don’t do it again. Thanks.” I deserved it, absorbed it, understood it, and lived it. Harsh? Maybe. It was certainly the first time I had ever heard it. Correct? Absolutely. I was treating him with disrespect, and it isn’t right. He was honestly telling me (in no uncertain terms) “That behavior is not acceptable. Live it or beat it.” I decided to live it, and I don’t regret it.

Zette

33

Although Freedom has a rather annoying habit of thinking that the way he thinks is the way guys think (although his tenure herer has added the qualifier “most” to that) and that there is such a thing as "how women think’, I have to say in this case I agree with his general point of view. This statement, in particular, bothers me:

Frankly, this boggles my mind. Were a woman to say “If I tell him not to be abusive to me, I’ll end up violated, divorced, or both, and this is something every married woman sees as normal”, I’d sign her up for counseling. Do you honestly think she is going to stop loving you if you say to her, calmly, “Deliberitly belittling me is not acceptable”? If you do, you have my deep and sincere pity. That is no way to live.

Two other things jump out at me:

From the OP:

And then later:

Ok, I don’t wanna tell you how to live your life based on a couple of posts on a message board, but what the fuck are you thinking?

  1. If your life is stressful, don’t complicate it with orginizing formal birthday parties for a child who won’t even remember and who will get a much enjoyment out of a trip to McDs. If she is really into animals, take her to the petting zoo, and send out an email telling anyone you know with children that you will be there and when. Let them figure out how to get there. Formal invitations? Are you mad, man? For the next 18 years you have to consrve your energy.

I don’t know if this applies to you, but a certain type of couple falls into this trap of thinking that there are all these things that they are “supposed” to do with thier children now that they have them. This is part of what they call “supermom” syndrome, and I’ve seen men get it to. You are supposed to keep your baby happy and heathly, and not even in that order. Everything else is garnish. Do not wear yourself into a frazzle trying to give your little one this idealized childhood invented by the advertisers in “Parenting” magazine and perfected by Martha Stuart. It will not make the little one happier, it will not make her healthier, it will not make her a better person. At best, it will slightly impress all your friends and means that they will be a little more suprised when you get divorced.

  1. If you have the money to hire out a petting zoo, quit one of your freaking jobs. Having cutsey pictures of the rugrat feeding a goat is not going to be much solace years from now if you only get to see the rugrat herself every other Sunday. Unless it is a matter of putting food on the table and a roof overhead, you need to be home more. Perhaps if you were to quit the part time job your wife could get a part time job, leaving your income the same, giving you more time with the baby, and giving her a chance to get out of the house and interact with grownups. (And perhaps remember what is acceptable behavior between grownups).

I am right there with you RickJay–it amazes me how so many people think that loving someone means that you can treat them in ways you would never dream of treating the cashier at your grocery store.

34

There are different ways of negotiating respect.

Freedom suggested direct requests to stop the offending behaviour and the use of time-out tactics. That’s what works in his relationship. It won’t work for everyone.

I suggested the use of a little psychology. It works for some people. Others would consider my tactics underhand and manipulative. It works in some relationships, but it won’t work in others.

evilbeth said that she didn’t like the idea of demanding respect. That’s fine, too. I can’t speak for her, but I’d say that some relationships work under a model of negotiating respect, not flat-out demanding it. It’s not that love doesn’t come with respect – it has to — but that compromise and working through things together (sometimes mixed with a bit of psychological manipulation) is an alternative to a directly worded demand for respect.

Blindly accepting shitty behaviour isn’t an option. I think that everyone who has posted to this thread probably believes that. The fact that we have suggested different ways of dealing with the behaviour and negotiating respect doesn’t mean that we differ on this basic assumption.

35

I just noticed two more things in the OP that I think are worth pointing out:

and

In both these cases (and I am assuming you picked them because they were representitive) the sourse of stress is what other people are going to think about how y’all did something. And in these cases, in particular, she is going to be the one under scutinity (fair or not, if the cassarole you take to the pot-luck tastes like shit, people are going to assume she made it–same with invitations. If people thing that handing out directions on full sheets is tacky, they are gonna assume it was her idea).

So apparently it is dealing with other adults that stresses her out so much. One possible reason for this is that she is around other adults so little these days that when she is it is terrifying. The other possiblity is that she has a really bad case of super-mom syndrome and has gotten her perspective all out of wack (something that is easy to do). In reality, no one is gonna hate her if the cassarole sucks or if the invitations are casual, but she may have forgotten that. (If your friends really will care, I suggest you get new ones ASAP).
I still keep coming back to the idea of hiring a petting zoo for a 1st birthday party. Maybe we just come from very different backgrounds, but the idea of doing this at a time when money is tight and stress is high just seems so unbelievable to me. Why did y’all even consider such a thing? I don’t think you can even pretend it is for your daughter–rather, it is a chance to show off your daughter to your friends. That is fine, but don’t beat yourselves to death to come up with such a pastoral background to show her off in. There seems to be alot of interest in looking like the perfect family, that brings the perfect, unusual cassarole to the potluck and treats everyone’s kids to a petting zoo on birthdays etc etc. Next time there is a potluck, pick up a bucket of chicken on the way. And for your child’s second birthday make a cake, buy ice cream ,and hose all the kids off afterwards.

I may be completly off base here, but you sound truly misrable, your spouse sounds truly miserable, and you shouldn’t be misrable during this time of your life–your little one won’t be little forever.

P.S.–On a side note, your wife seems really worried about critisism from outsiders. One thing that people who worry about critisism tend to do (and this makes things worse) is be critical of others similar to themselves. If she is coming home from church acting shocked at how Jenny’s kids looked, then she is probably worried that Jenny noticed the stain on Little Child’s dress, etc, etc. If she is reacting this way, try and defuse it. " I dunno, Jenny’s littlest one has such a sweet smile."

36

Amen, MandaJO. Wow. I couldn’t have put it better in a million years. You’re good.

My 2 cents. The best thing you and your spouse can do for your baby is treat each other well, because there’s a strong chance that’s how your baby will model their future relationships. At the least, it will affect the child’s happiness.

Putting my pop psychology hat on, I wonder if there’s a deeper psychological reason for all the people (all women, I believe) who say they handle stressful situations by shouting at their SO. Is it learned behavior? Did your mothers do this? Do you avoid addressing real problems in your relationship only to explode at the little things? Or, do you just get lazy in your relationships?

My wife would never treat me like this. And if she does get bitchy, it’s because I deserved it. I thought it was only when you really fucked up that the superbitch mode is warranted.

As for AWB, you and your wife need counseling, IMHO, if this continues. You slept on the couch and she didn’t even mean for you to do that? You’ve got communication problems, big time. Work on those problems and save your marriage, because you don’t have a good one at this point.

37

Hey I just got back from Platitudes 'R Us and I picked up a couple of ones that you should try on . How about

“People need loving the most when they deserve it the least”?

Or

“For every behavior there is a reason”?

Having been at various times a stay-at-home mom, a mom with a paying job and little ones at home, and now a working woman with grown children, I can empathize with your situation.

Perhaps merely being at home with the little darling is not in and of itself stressful. The stress comes from external stressors and the internal one we inflict on ourselves. When women devote their time to staying at home and raising a child, they are perceived as not having a job when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Parenting if done correctly is a hard gig whose benefits are not readily apparent.

But many women focus so much on the parenting aspect they tend to neglect the other roles that they still must fulfill in order to be a whole person with a healthy psyche. They forget to include “me” time. Time when they are something other than a mother. When a person starts to feel better about themselves, they won’t feel the need to make others as miserable as they are.

Your wife seems to have some issues, that much is clear. But she needs to realize that you are not the cause of her problems and to stop attacking you on all fronts. You are her friend, her lover, her allie, and the one that loves her. She needs to be reminded of that. She needs to participate in activities that remind her of the fabulous person that she is in addition to being a great mother and housekeeper. She also needs to lighten up a bit-- everything is not a crisis.

The phrase “demanding respect” is just a little strong. The phrase “you will not treat me in that manner because I will not allow it” is strong as well but it is something that needs to be said. Maybe some ground rules need to be set for honest, open, genuine communication. Couples counseling could be a good thing.

Good luck.

38

Watch for signs that the criticisms are coming more frequently, and the apologies farther apart. I spent 15 years trying to appease an increasingly hostile spouse. The only lesson I learned was “don’t appease tyrants”.

I’m divorced now, and despite being male, I have custody of my two sons. My ex-wife, the megalomaniac, lost a bitter custody battle by treating the psychologist and the kids the same way she was treating me.

Your wife may have no serious problems, or maybe she does. But I’ll tell you this: There is no reason to apologize if you’ve done nothing wrong.

39

**Manda JO **

Inasmuch as you agree with me, and considering the fact that I agree with everything esle you said, I almost hesitate to bring up the one thing I do not agree with.

When have I ever held myself out as an example of the way guys think? Show me a place where I even used the word most.

Upon re-reading this thread, this is the closest I can find:

Is this an unreasonable generalization? Or maybe there is another thread on the SD that could cite if you are going to throw out accusations like that?
Tansu

I can agree with your last post. I don’t particularly like your method, and you might not like mine, but I do agree that “different strokes for different folks” applies here.

The Mermaid

This may qualify for the Semantics Game of the Year Award.
There is no material difference between those statements.

40

Maybe if we’re lucky you’ll get both.

your humble TubaDiva
A girl can dream.