This one's probably gonna burn and bury me, but I have to ask...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

…I only hate most of the other people’s kids.

I’ve got two of my own. A girl and a boy. I love them endlessly and dearly - as one would expect of any good parent. But other people’s kids… wellll, that’s a horse of an entirely different colour. I cannot stand undisciplined, spoiled, whining kids… then again, who can?! My wife and I are raising our kids to be well behaved and respectful and independent. Most kids I see these days, including some of the ones in our extended families are non of those things. Most times when I see a kid that’s completely out of control, I need look no further than at their parents for a full explanantion. Most of the time, they are out of control as well.

I know that kids should be allowd to be kids and our kids get plenty of time and opportunity to be silly and act their age. In fact, at home, we encourage it. But in public venues such as thearters, restaurants, malls, etc… we expect our kids to behave appropriately and not throw tantrums at the slightest provocation. Most times they exceed our expectations. If they fail to meet them, we pack 'em up and take 'em home. That usually fixes the problem and avoids it’s future re-occurance.

42

Dave, you put that perfectly. I’m a parent of three and have a very hard time explaining that concept to people sometimes. I think I’ll save that one for future use. Thanks. :wink:

43

How fun to find out that other people disliked kids even when they were kids themselves. I always thought that was a real oddity of mine. As a kid I always wanted to make friends with my teachers, not my classmates. When I was little my social companions were all older siblings and cousins, and when I became a teenager I hung out with teenagers who were several years older than me (generally 18-ish), so, curiously, I managed to miss most regular association with kids. I had to share classrooms with them, but kept myself pretty well isolated during this forced mixing. I can still recall my disorientation and utter dismay when forced into interaction during compulsory group activities at school. I was probably the only one who didn’t like field trips, because you had to pair up with someone else (i.e. another dumb, annoying kid) for the whole day. I would have rather stayed in the back of the classroom with my nose in a book as usual. (That was one of my humorous incidents of school days, when my parents were actually called in to discuss the fact that I hated going out for recess. I would rather stay in and read. When forced to go out [for my own good, of course], I took my book and sat outside away from everyone else and read anyway. I never understood why this upset everyone so, and I still don’t.) The first big happy day of my life was the day I graduated from high school and knew that from then on I would never be forced to hang around with kids again, and could consider my world essentially adults-only.

Eve - glad I wasn’t the only one who was mortified instead of thrilled about that huge litter of kids.

Uke, I don’t think I would raise perfect kids, and I don’t expect anyone else to do so either. (In fact I doubt I would do as good a job as the good parents I know; yet another reason to voluntarily remove myself from the pool.) The best of parents have imperfect kids (it’s a human being thing), and sometimes the best parental efforts fail in spite of themselves. Parents who don’t even try, or who lack even the most rudimentary parenting skills to begin with, are a subject of their own. But the original subject wasn’t so much rude/obnoxious/undisciplined kids, but kids per se. Kids acting up are that much harder to tolerate, but even the best-behaved kids still don’t make me ooh and ahh, or make me feel comfortable interacting/talking/playing with them. My nephews (3 & 1 1/2) are as well behaved and mannered as any child I’ve ever known, thanks to their very loving and kind but very vigilant and disciplined parents, and I do love them as my nephews. But I still don’t feel comfortable around them, don’t know how to relate to them on their own level, and have to remind myself to make a bit of a fuss over them every time so as not to hurt the feelings of their parents.

SouthernStyle, SO and I have occasionally joked about the fact that by not reproducing we are removing some genes that would be a definite plus to the pool (while some of the most doubtful contributions are distressingly made by the most frequent contributors, please think birth control, people). Not that we are saints or geniuses by any means, but we’re strong and intelligent people with a lot of good qualities, and we like to think that our offspring would have had a lot going for them in their own way, would have been a positive force on the world and the people around them (as our many neices and newphews all seem to be). Anyway, if I’m in the neighborhood, will there be a SouthernStyle party? Since there won’t be any kids attending, no one would have to act too mature (I’ll bring the pinata), and we don’t have to pretend that you must have a nutritious meal instead of fried cheese sticks and beer. :smiley:

44

This has been a very, very instructive thread!

Pardon me, but I don’t have the quoting thing down yet. It was said:

I think the thing about kids that bugs me the most(besides their parents ), is what they
represent. Kids represent the cliche “Ball and chain”. Your life as you know it will forever
be changed after having children. No more tom-catting around, endless responsibilities
Etc…

It’s interesting how your priorities change. I enjoy being with my children and no longer have any interest in tomcatting around. (Or rather, the feminine equivelent.) Please down write me off as one of those sanctimonious parents: I used to party plenty! Even though though I always wanted and knew I would have children eventually, this ‘ball and chain’ thing you mention did trouble me. Now, the very thought of partying selfishly, for my own fun and enjoyment is positively boring. I wouldn’t have any fun, anywhere, if my children weren’t along.

I’d also like to comment on the “parent-as-slob and the reason kids are brats” theory. When you see me out with my children, they’re in a new, exciting environment. They’re energetic, preoccupied and, as children do, prone to tuning out Mom. I work hard to make sure my children don’t bother people, and really feel I’m raising responsible children.

But kids as kids is what is irritating to most people who don’t like them. And I won’t apologize for their behavior. The world belongs to children, too; museums are not for adults only. Their immature and sophomoric comments might chafe YOU but you certainly can’t expect them to arrive at the age of 18 with an appreication of Impressionism if they’ve never been exposed to it.

I hope I’m not coming off as condemning those of you who don’t like children. I don’t understand it, but that doesn’t mean I think there’s something wrong with you. As i said, it’s been instructive reading this. It’s easy to assume others are like you, when it comes to something universal like children!

45

Good to see that the rest of you are connecting and finding out that there are other out there who don’t like kids, too.

Just remember: You are not alone.
:slight_smile:

46

But I never said that museums were for adults only! I couldn’t agree more that children need exposure to all kinds of culture; in fact it’s more of a crying need than ever these days. I never said that kids should be kept out of museums - but I don’t think I’m that unreasonable to wish for one day, or even one evening, out of an entire month when adults could enjoy the experience in a quiet and mature atmosphere. You say that “I wouldn’t have any fun, anywhere, if my children weren’t along.” With all due respect, I don’t know if that’s completely healthy. Don’t you ever do anything with your husband/SO or with a friend? No matter how central your kids are to your world (and rightfully so), a little adult interaction would seem critical to good mental health. My sister-in-law is a stay at home mom who happily spends virtually every waking moment with the boys, but even she meets her friends once a month for dinner and drinks so they can all have some non-spousal adult company for a change. And again, respectfully, I don’t think kids belong at all events or occasions. I would never take a child to a rock concert, or to a new year’s eve party, or to a bar, or to an R-rated movie (and although I’m not a big concert- or movie-goer, I’d hate to say arbitrarily, “No more concerts or movies for me for the next eighteen years!”). Some environments that are normal and fun for adults are dangerous, scary, or just plain inappropriate for kids. And surely getting a sitter for a few hours every month or two is healthier for Mom and Dad than simply declaring that they will give up all things in their lives that are not geared to and suitable for small children.

See, I knew I couldn’t possibly suggest kid-free day without someone claiming I wanted to ban kids from museums. :frowning:

47

Ah, no, cygnus, I don’t accuse you of wanting to ban children from museums. I used your example of a museum because it was fresh in my mind, and handy as an illustration as to why children belong in the world. I could have used grocery, thought there’s not much cultural stimulation in the produce aisle. Although it is important to bring children along on errands, for work is as much a part of life as interactive play with parents.

To address this point:

You say that “I wouldn’t have any fun, anywhere, if my children
weren’t along.” With all due respect, I don’t know if that’s completely healthy. Don’t you ever do
anything with your husband/SO or with a friend? No matter how central your kids are to your
world (and rightfully so), a little adult interaction would seem critical to good mental health.

When I say I don’t have fun without them, that is NOT saying that I DON’T do anything without them. In fact, I am not in their company 7 hours a day, when I’m working. That is partly why I don’t much care for the idea of going off and partying without them in the precious few hours I DO have with them! And, I’ll admit, to say I don’t have fun without them, ever, is a bit of an overstatement. I average about two movies a year sans children, and when my nearly 3-year-old son was 7 months old, hubbie and I saw Elton in concert. But: that kind of separation is hard on a nursing mommy.

Beyond this, though, the attitude that “it’s not completely healthy” to want to be around your kids always is distrubing. I rail against the predominent notion in our society that children are to be “gotten away from” for our “sanity.” Parents – many parents – relish the role. Mothers who nurse frequently wouldn’t dream of allowing the nursling from her side for a year, two years.

I’m not giving up my life, is my point. Strange as it may seem I enjoy interaction with children and I’m not starved for concerts, New Year’s Eve parties or even movies. (Thank god for VCRs is all I can say on that point.) Too, books have always been my solace and they certainly can be savored while a dump truck is maneuvered around my knees.

I don’t begrudge you a quiet museum hour. I’m just mystified by the notion that it’s needed.

Tips for talking to kids If you’re interested. Don’t ask them questions, ask them to tell you stories.

48

The one about asking them to tell you stories. Children can be very articulate on occasion, but they aren’t much for being interviewed. And, what they do so isn’t exactly going to have a thesis statement or supporting arguments. I find kids are pretty good at just going on about what their dog did, or whatever, and it’s interesting sometimes to hear the things they think are important.

So I’d put myself sort of in the middle on the liking-children question. In most other times or places, I would probably be very pro-kid, but I seem to live in a culture which emphasizes some naive notion of “freedom” in raising kids. Most of the things I’ve experienced which pull me toward the anti-kid alignment, are distant memories, but potent nonetheless. I mean, I haven’t seen a 14-year-old pelting a 12-year-old’s head with a rock since I was twelve years old (and even then I was a little too dazed to get a good look). Since then, I’ve been pretty lucky. I’m mostly known bright little girls, happy infants, and the occasional subdued teenager.

But if all I saw of children were brats howling in the supermarket, I would avoid them as much as y’all do.

49

This is me.

So is this. So when you decide to go, give me a call, okay? I’ll split the travel costs with you.

I love my kids desperately. But it took me a very long time to decide to have them. I didn’t hate kids, but like most of the other posters, they just made me uncomfortable. When I decided I wanted my own, though, it wasn’t because of outside pressure. It was me. I wanted them, and so did my husband. My mind just changed. I can’t explain it.

I do not fault anyone who doesn’t like or want kids. Parenting is a 24-7 job, for the rest of your life. At a family reunion a couple of years ago, my 95-year-old great grandmother (who was not able to attend) called me, and asked if my 75-year-old grandmother was wearing her sweater and staying out of the sun. I kid thee not.

If you don’t want children, do not have them. If you don’t want them, you’ll resent them when they do come along, and demand everything you have to give, and more. Then you’ll end up being a bad parent, and your kids will end up on Springer telling the world what a bad parent you are.

Parenting is the hardest job in the world, bar none, regardless of how good your kids are. The rewards are outstanding, but the pitfalls positively suck.

Not becoming a parent is, IMHO, not a selfish act. Sometimes it’s a very, very wise move. I do not regret becoming a parent, but I’ve got to admit, when I went to the Chicago Dopefest a couple of weeks ago, by myself, no kids or husband, well, it was sweet.

But right now, my three-year-old is laying on the floor, screeching out “Happy Birthday” at my eight-month-old, and they’re cracking each other up. That is even sweeter.

50

I once told a co-worker that I never wanted to have any children and she said to me, “That is the most selfish thing that I have ever heard.”

Let me get this straight. I’m selfish because I realize that I am not mature enough to raise kids? Thank god I stopped caring what most other people think.

I still don’t know what is wrong with not wanting kids, although I’m not sure if this is what the OP was refering to.

51

Odieman said…

Odieman, you are close. In 1939 Leo Rosten said “Any man who hates dogs and babies can’t be all bad.” Yes, he was speaking of W.C. Fields, but two years earlier in 1937, Cedric Worth penned in Harper’s Magazine: “No man who hates dogs and children can be all bad”.

52

Adam, you might want to have a calm come-back, ‘why is it less selfish of me not wanting children than it is for YOU to WANT them?’ I think it’s wise to know yourself so well, and unbelievably rude of anyone to make comments about your personal life. Why anyone takes it upon themselves to judge you and put YOU on the defensive when it is THEY who are so out of line in their questioning in the first place!

I had a friend a number of years ago, who was the master of dead pan, ‘Why do you feel you must ask me that?’ was her favorite thing to say when some rudnik would ask ‘Is that your real hair?’ or any other rude, none of their business type questions.

53

I agree that it’s not selfish to decide not to have children, especially if you feel they’d be too much of a burden.

Had a very weird exchange with my sister-in-law before my son came along. You may have noticed that my kids are 8 years apart. That’s because we weren’t sure if we wanted a second child (although we decided we wanted one when we found out we were going to have one!).

We mentioned this one time at a family gathering, and my sister-in-law, who comes from a large family, ripped us a new one. She thought we owed it to our daughter to produce a sibling for her! It was the most bizarre experience I’ve ever had, especially since my other sister-in-law, who is an only child, was sitting there also, and since it’s no secret in my family that my sister had her tubes tied after having one child.

I really love it when other people decide how I ought to run my life. Sure wish I had the instruction booklet before I invested in 8-trak tapes.

54

Nah… I like myself now, as the mature 18-year-old that I am (chuckle, snort). I hated myself as a KID. Still hate myself-as-a-kid. Glad I’m not him anymore.

55

[ramble alert]

When Mr. Ujest and I met and subsequently married, we knew we wanted children. Mind you from the meeting to the altar, it was 4 years and another four years after that that we decided we were ready, more or less, to start replicating ourselves. We now have two children, 2 years and four months old.I wouldn’t do anything differently. I’m fairly certian that my mother in law and my sister in law thought we would never have children.They are both baby crazy people. We never talked about it with them, because, frankly, 1)It’s none of their business and 2) we were too busy enjoying a nice self absorbed life style.

I have always found it highly offensive to ask someone else about their reproductive organs.Call me crazy, but it’s no ones business to ask about “When are you going to have kids.” I have never asked that question to a friend/colleague/family member because 1) It’s none of my business. 2) What if the couple have been having a problem getting pregnant and suffered through years of infertility. 3) Just had a miscarriage. Get my drift?

Fortunately, being born with a gift of putting people in their place. I had a slew of quips for the " When are you going to have children."

  1. When you pay for their college?
    2)When you get a clue and mind your own business. Oh wait, that’ll never happen, so I guess, never.
    3)And you are interested in our sex life for what reason?
    4)We haven’t consummated yet.
    5)I’m gay and so is my husband. We married for health care benefits.
    (My personal favorite) 6) My husband has a low sperm count.

#6, which is not true, just makes these busy bodies blush with embarrassment. Serves 'em right, too.

I;ve always liked kids and am very good around them.I have a knack at getting kids to do what they are suppose to do. I see things from their perspective and I am very patient with them. Adults, I have little patience with.

However, I’m not a baby-crazy person. I don’t think all babies are cute.I don’t think all little girls in dresses are worth cooing over. In fact I just saw one today at the store that was pug-ugly and felt sorry for the mom. I also don’t think that every little face, fart, coo,whatever that a child does ( even mine) is great gobs of laughter or oh-so-cute. My MIL and SIL do, and it is turning my little neice into an attention freak.( I can’t wait until this kid turns two or so. Muhahahaha!) Kids need to learn to play with others *and * by themselves.
However, since becoming a parent, I make an effort to compliment the parents who do have well behaved children in public.

I do engage in random acts of peek a boo and really do not give a rip if I make a fool of myself doing so. I also have been known to sing loudly songs that put toddlers into frenzies and they flock to me like I am the Pied Piper to their little rat like personas. It’s great fun.
Shirley does have some pet peeves about parents and the snot nosed demon seed children they spawn: This is what I see nearly every time: Mom has no sense of control or discipline over children and is baby led, rather than the child being Mommy-led.
(Baby-lead is where the baby gets the treat he screams for in a tantrum. Mommy lead is where he doesn’t and is punished or removed for the store.) Excuse me, but when the frick do you get a back bone and stand up to this little two foot terrorist?

The best example I can give, and I’ll be brief, is when I was a travel agent, I had a client who wanted to take his family to Disney. I thought his only child was about 3 and commented she would probably be too young to enjoy anything and would not get as much out of the trip as a school aged child would.Waiting another couple of years would be worth it, IMHO. My client agreed completely with me and said his wife wanted to do the trip because the baby, who was 2, asked a 100 times a day to “Go See Mickey.” So, they went. Had a miserable time. Wished he listened to me but decided he had to teach his dipwad wife a lesson that cost them about $3,000.

You pick your battles,and you cannot win them all, but I swear, most of these parents I’ve run across, are unarmed mentally.

This is a ramble as my two year old is chanting " Momma, pee . Momma, pee." over and over again and I know he is trying out his new diversionary tactics for going to sleep.

In closing, I’d like to say, my kids are cuter than yours.

And I apologize if I didn’t make any pertient points at all. I got three hours of sleep last night and they were not in a row.

56

Hello…and let us ruminate on some thoughtful truths:

FIRST: “Children” are NOT the “Future of the World”. They, are, in fact, more realistically, in their collective hoards, as they age, much more likely to be the “Demise of the World”.

SECOND: At LEAST millions of “children” are (as are millions of adults) pure Shits. Not because they are “born that way”, but more truly, because the humans who parented them (even though lacking the extremely rare sets of essential “parenting” skills) were strongly socially-pressured (read: “intimidated”) into believing that they (the parents) were of no real value as human beings until they “went forth and multiplied”.
Face it. And develop the chutzpah to simply refuse to say to it’s beaming parent how “cute” you think the little girl/boy/thing next door with the Orangutan-face, drooling on your leg and ripping your dog’s ear off, is.

And, LAST: HOW in the heck! DID ALL OF YOUSE HERE ON THIS THREAD GLIDE THRU THIS SWAMP WITHOUT QUOTING THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL TENET IN THE PHILOSPHY OF W. C. FIELDS?..to wit:

“I LOVE CHILDREN; BUT ONLY IF THEY ARE PREPARED PROPERLY.”

Ahhh…yehhhhssssss!, muh’dear!

With love, joy, contentment, and no children…I remain…
A childless-useless-unfulfilled-person-of-no-real-value(to the “One True Church”, that is). --Pukalani.

57

Hello…and let us ruminate on some thoughtful truths:

FIRST: “Children” are NOT the “Future of the World”. They, are, in fact, more realistically, in their collective hoards, as they age, much more likely to be the “Demise of the World”.

SECOND: At LEAST millions of “children” are (as are millions of adults) pure Shits. Not because they are “born that way”, but more truly, because the humans who parented them (even though lacking the extremely rare sets of essential “parenting” skills) were strongly socially-pressured (read: “intimidated”) into believing that they (the parents) were of no real value as human beings until they “went forth and multiplied”.
Face it. And develop the chutzpah to simply refuse to say to it’s beaming parent how “cute” you think the little girl/boy/thing next door with the Orangutan-face, drooling on your leg and ripping your dog’s ear off, is.

And, LAST: HOW in the heck! DID ALL OF YOUSE HERE ON THIS THREAD GLIDE THRU THIS SWAMP WITHOUT QUOTING THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL TENET IN THE PHILOSPHY OF W. C. FIELDS?..to wit:

“I LOVE CHILDREN; BUT ONLY IF THEY ARE PREPARED PROPERLY.”

Ahhh…yehhhhssssss!, muh’dear!

With love, joy, contentment, and no children…I remain…
A childless-useless-unfulfilled-person-of-no-real-value(to the “One True Church”, that is). --Pukalani.

58

Hey…AdamYax, you most-treasured non-reproducer, you!:

Grab a modicum of comfort from these words: You are NOT alone in your social consciousness. Your very UNSELFISH decision to NOT BREED sets you admirably above the hoards of self-righteous residents of the sprawling suburban baby factories…

Now: WALK RIGHT UP to that “coworker” of yours (female, did you say?) who had the effrontery to call you and your plan to remain “childless” (what an insultingly church-y way to put it!), look into her vacuous face, just as you would into the eyes of any other smug and fecund BROOD-YAK<–(large, long-haired, wild ox), and suggest that she consult the nearest MIRROR if she wishes to view TRUE SELF…ISH…NESS!

Then go to the Mall (where else?!) nearest her home and buy her a size 48XXX lady’s sweatshirt, custom imprinted with the word “BABY” and a huge fuchsia arrow pointing to her soon-to-be-incessantly-filled-UTERUS.

Handing her the sweatshirt, suggest that she wear it in BLOATED health, give her an “air-kiss”, and express your unbridled JOY at her life-plans to “be fruitful and multiply” and multiply and multiply. To frost the cake, remind her that “SELFISHNESS, THY NAME IS BROOD-OX”! ! !

Adam Yax: May you always remain unswerved in your non-breeder-contentment and joy.

Signed: Another kindred spirit [[and Valuable Non-Contributor to the Population Explosion]], Pukalani.

59

I am 23 and feel I am too young to have children. As I am still mostly one myself.

Also…I think we should set a limit to the post length here. If it takes more that 2 minutes to write then your post will be too long.

60

You seem like a nice fellow so far. So I’ll limit my comments to this:

What I quoted above is your humble opinion. Please take it to the appropriate forum. Nobody here likes being told how to post. Ok?