This queer's switching teams

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

I’m going to go way out on a limb here, and probably finish getting those pissed off at me that hadn’t already for other threads, but:

I saw the same problems alluded to above when the relationship began developing, just before Snark took his short sabbatical. I didn’t say anything, because all the material was in front of Bill and Rose if they chose to look at it. I know they’re going into this relationship with eyes wide open (hmmm, interesting title for a movie ;)) and stranger things have happened.

Bill has never described himself as gay, per se; he’s admitted to having “homosexual tendencies.” Okay, so he can be interested in people on both sides of the fence. And Rose is 100% clear on how that can happen, from past sad experience. IIRC, what she said about her husband was not necessarily that his attraction to other men bothered her, so much as that he neglected her for his latest love interest. Rose, correct me if I’m wrong here.

And what we’ve known of Snark from his online posts leads me to believe that he is a very ethical (in fact, hyperscrupulous) young man, trying to deal with what nature has dealt him in the most moral way possible.

Squirrel, you of all people ought to be aware of the Kinsey scale, and that it is a spectrum, not a us/them situation. Relatively few people are 100% monosexually oriented for their entire life under all conceivable circumstances; the majority have at least had one passing thought of “I wonder what it would be like if…”

I wish Snark and Rose the best. And I have a strong feeling it will work out well, if they continue honesty in their love.

22

Poly, thank you. FYI, my former husband(the jerk) cheated on me hundreds of times(unlike Snark, he Liked the idea of having sex with men),and was horrid in many other ways.
I usually don’t like to quote others with their permission, but Bill said he’d much rather have sex with a female than a male(sorry Satan).
So thanks to those of you who wish us well!
And to the person who said something about out of desperation…Snark is hardly desperate, I can’t believe there aren’t hundreds of women after him! :slight_smile:

23

Orangecakes, I wish you both nothing but the best! Be happy, both of you!

24

Missy, Thank you! :smiley:
He is the sweetest, funniest, nicest , fairest, most-gorgeousest guy I’ve ever known.
Those of you who want to debate homosexuality: I believe theres a thread in great debates. :rolleyes:
Still waiting for a foursome with Satan and Drain… :cool:

25

I dont really know either Snark or OC, not even in the context of the MB, but I want to add my well-wishes. I really hope that whatever this turns out to be, works out really well, and that any possible problems can be easily talked through.

26

Well, congrats to both of you.
I have a sneaking suspicion Cecil is in cahoots with Cupid. Seems to be alot of matchmaking on the board these days.

If A equals success, then the formula is: A = X + Y + Z, X is work. Y is play. Z is keep your mouth shut.
-Albert Einstein

27

Well, this turned out to be a little bit of a warm topic, didn’t it.

All speculation aside, I hope you find in each other a friend that cannot be replaced. I echo Poly’s feelings.

28

I wish you two the best of luck.

Pay no attention to those members behind the board… They are the great and powerful Oz!!!

I really try to be good but it just isn’t in my nature!

29

Hmm.

Congratulations, first of all. I wish you two the best.

The reason I say, “hmmm” above is that in reading through the same-sex marriage thread, there were a number of people that expressed the sentiment, “When any two people come together in love, shouldn’t that be the only thing that matters?” (my paraphrase)

If that is, indeed, the only thing that matters… I guess I’m a little confused at the negative reactions presented here.

These are two people that care about each other. Let them discover whatever they may together, and share whatever joy they can. There’s precious little of joy in the world, I think, for anyone to start rationing it out.

  • Rick
30

Go for it. Life is too short to not go for love when you have the chance. I wish the both of you the best!

You say “cheesy” like that’s a BAD thing.

31

Why is it okay to tell Snark and orangecakes that it is wrong to be together? How is that different from someone telling two men or two women that their relationship is wrong? If that is what they want, why is it okay to criticize them for it?

And SqrlCub, Dear, you know I love ya, but the following statement,

, really should be backed up with facts.

Perhaps it’s true, but the way it was worded makes it sound like one of those well known facts that people want to believe, accept as true, repeat to each other to prove a point, but is probably just made up.

FWIW:
I believe that commitment and character can help us overcome any primal urges to stray–whether to other men or to other women. We’re so modern and hip, that to many people character and commitment really mean nothing anymore. We say they’re important, and then we qualify their value, by saying stuff like, “Well, it’s only about sex”, or, “Everybody does it”, or some other such thing which effectively negates ANY value we pretend to give these qualities as they apply to our own lives.

So, why does anyone trust anything that we hear?

The answer: There are still people out there to whom honesty, character, and commitment are important, and we hope that the person we’re counting on is one of these people.

From the little I’ve gleaned from this board, it seems that Snark has strong character and I would believe that he would be faithful to his commitments. They both seem kind and honest. That’s what we all hope for, regardless of the gender of our mate.

A long time ago(WAY before the Clinton thing), I read a sign that said:
"Character is what you are when no one else is looking."
I’ve never forgotten it.

32

OC - Great news, although I guess my fantasies of you pining away for me are now forever smashed. Ah, the exquisite turmoil of mixed emotions!

Snark - We’ve debated religion and politics, now we can debate relationships, too! Is that a good thing?

Besides, I knew you just hadn’t met the right woman.
::G,D,&R::

The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs. – E. Grebenik

33

Thanks, everyone, for the well-wishes.

SqrlCub wrote:

Whoa, whoa, whoa! First of all, I said we were “boyfriend and girlfriend,” not enganged, not husband and wife. We’re going to take this very slowly.

Second, I have always thought that sex between two men is one of the grossest, most disgusting things I’ve ever heard of. I would MUCH rather have sex with a woman than with a man, although I have to admit I’m more attracted to male bodies than female bodies. But I wouldn’t ever even THINK of having sex with another man. The very thought makes me want to puke. So please keep your stereotypes at home and don’t tell me who I can and can’t fall in love with.

Third, Rose is a very, very understanding, kind soul, and if this works, I will be very happy to pursue the relationship further.

As for our religious differences, I have told Rose that I won’t marry a non-Mormon. She will have to decide, should our relationship get that far, whether she wants to join the LDS church or not. That’s totally her decision, not mine. And remember, I would have to get worthy too, as I’m inactive and a sinner.

So this relationship is in its very early stages, and we just wanted to announce it because it is a wonderful thing for both of us. Please don’t rain on our parade by enforcing the “gays can only have sex with other gays” rule on us. (BTW, yes, I don’t believe in sex before marriage–I’m just illustrating a point.)

Thanks again to all the well-wishes. :smiley:

34

From Polycarp:

Unless, of course, you count the Topic line.

35

I have, in the past, described myself as “gay” and “homosexual.” The terminology I prefer is, “I have ‘same-sex attraction.’” I’ll try to stick with that. Sorry about the subject line–maybe I should have used a different term than “queer.”

36

<qoute>And SqrlCub, Dear, you know I love ya, but the following statement,

quote:

" Almost every ex-gay person eventually gives up that position and starts dating men again"

, really should be backed up with facts. </quote>

This was discussed in a prior thread. The founders of the ex-gay movement not only decided that straight life wasn’t for them, they committed to themselves. There is a thread on this board talking about it. Not only that, the Kinsey research and whatever the manual is that defines psychiatric disorders have both stated on numerous occassions that homosexuality is not a disease nor is it treatable. This is all backed up with about 50 years of research.

I don’t wish them harm and already know that sexuality isn’t necesssarily 100% either way. Needless to say though, Snark has identified himself as a gay man on threads in Great Debates and should know much better than to try to do anything that would potentially hurt a lover. I personally find the type of attitude that you should marry out of your sexuality to be extremely morally wrong. If Snark considers himself primarily bisexual (contrary to what he posted earlier) than I really don’t see a problem with it.

Actually coming to think about it even more, I don’t see a problem with him marrying orangecakes at all. I in fact (if I was straight) would not mind marrying her either. She is smart, wonderful and funny (as is Snark). Anyway, I would never do it because I know that even if everything was completely open about my sexuality in the first place it just wouldn’t feel right.

I have known couples that were completely monogomous where the people lived as straight people eventhough both of them were gay. In fact, I have known couples where one of the members of the couple is gay and the other is straight both with and without their
partners knowledge. Yes, the couples were monogomous with eachother and in love with eachother. Eventhough they loved eachother the thought of intimacy between them was thought of as pretty gross by one of the partners but they still went through with it. I have also known the reverse to be true, but typically those people identify themselves as bisexual.

I do wish the best for the relationship but can not see how anything will actually work itself into a pleasant fruition unless Snark misdiagnosed his homosexuality and in fact considers himself primarily bisexual.

My current theories on homosexuality don’t so much stress the ideas of sex but rather is more similar to homoemotional. This is a state where to feel emotionally whole you should be with the same sex rather than the opposite. Also there is a factor where one is homoerotic where the person therein is primarily turned on by the same sex but will not necessarily ever do anything about it. And the last part of this trinity is that you can be homosexual where the person likes to have gay sex but is not necessarily turned on by it. My basic standpoint is that the majority of out of the closet gays are all three: homoemotional, homoerotic and homosexual. I don’t know Snark’s case really, just what he has shared with us here. I will assume that he is either homoerotic or homoemotional but is completely uncomfortable for a variety of reasons with the homosexual part where the focus is sex rather than being together. Along this theory, the easiest one to control would be the homoerotic. If you are turned on by the same sex (body wise) then you can do a lot of things to remedy that with the same sex (a good imagination, look for someone of the opposite with similar traits to the same sex, etc). If one is homoemotional, this is significantly more difficult to deal with because the wholeness one requires is dealt with by having someone with them that is the same sex. Last, if someone is homosexual and the sex is something that they desire then there is absolutely nothing you can do. The opposite sex does not have the proper equipment to actually handle his/her sexual desires. Note that homoerotic and homosexual are linked together very closely but are not the same.

As for the case with orangecakes, I know that her husband really hurt her immensely from various posts. It just seems to me that she is potentially setting herself up for a similar situation.

If you both choose to go through with this relationship, I wish the best for you. It will work if Snark does not have the desire for sex at all. If he just likes the way guys look, and even if he just prefers their presence then he can be a potentially good husband (I can’t see the future, so I won’t say anything in definates). Looking at the history of current gay people and society, marriage to the opposite sex really doesn’t work. OC, you of all people should know that because your husband not only tramped around, he died as a result of it.

HUGS!
Sqrl

On a side note. Haven’t you guys learned anything about homosexuality. It is not something that can be changed.

Dear Fascist Bully Boys,
Give me more money, you bastards.
May the seed of your loins prove fruitful in the belly of your woman.
neil

37

Well, I wish you both luck. And Snark, don’t worry about finding men’s bodies attractive. I have always found female bodies to be incredibly inticing and stimulating. Seeing a beautiful naked woman makes me hot hot hot. But it doesn’t make me want to sleep with her—it just makes me over-all horny.
I used to wonder what this said about my sexuality. Now I don’t care. So I think women are hot. Big deal. I can’t say that the thought of sleeping with a woman repulses me, but I’ve never done it and don’t have any special desire to. Any manner of things can trigger the hot and horny response. If I were you, I wouldn’t worry one whit about it.

“I should not take bribes and Minister Bal Bahadur KC should not do so either. But if clerks take a bribe of Rs 50-60 after a hard day’s work, it is not an issue.” ----Krishna Prasad Bhattarai, Current Prime Minister of Nepal

38

It looks like we were simulposting. It looks like many of the issues I speculated on were dealt with Snark.

Anyway, he said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa! First of all, I said we were “boyfriend and girlfriend,” not enganged, not husband and wife. We’re going to take this very slowly.”

and I said, “Snark, you should know better than to date a straight woman”

Notice I said “date” which has the potential to lead to marriage but expressly did not say marriage.

In my later post I deal with this issue that Snark brought up, “So please keep your stereotypes at home and don’t tell me who I can and can’t fall in love with.” and also the issue about gay sex being gross to you.

“Third, Rose is a very, very understanding, kind soul, and if this works, I will be very happy to pursue the relationship further.”

I know this and respect that. I also know somewhat about love. I think that you should come out to your congregation and say that you have gay feelings but haven’t acted on them and see what happens. Afterall, they should be very understanding.

hugs!
Sqrl

Dear Fascist Bully Boys,
Give me more money, you bastards.
May the seed of your loins prove fruitful in the belly of your woman.
neil

39

SqrlCub wrote:

I see myself as:

  1. In possession of a heterosexually-programmed body; and

  2. A member of a religion that teaches that homosexual behavior (not feelings) is a sin; and

  3. Turned on by other men, but not objectifying them sexually.

So I believe I have a good chance of making a relationship with a woman work. It’s true, I have programmed myself through the use of gay pornography over the years, to like the way other men look. I’m not pretending that this programming is going to be easy to go against. But I’ve made that bed, and I’ll have to sleep in it. I don’t believe that homosexual orientation is unchangeable. Habits can die, interests can be changed, and preferences can be altered over long periods of time, IMHO.

40

Hmmm, I was wondering that myself!

Anyway, Snark and OC, everyone else on this board can analyze this relationship until they are blue in the face but no one knows what will happen until you give it an honest try. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t be careful, but don’t be afraid to love again because you have been burned in the past(I’m sure you don’t need the other posters here reminding you of that, either). Best of luck to the both of you.

“Universe Man - He’s got a watch with a minute hand, millenium hand and an eon hand and when they meet it’s a happy land - Powerful man, Universe Man”
-TMBG