Thoughts on Revenge of the Sith (unboxed spoilers)

I’ve read much of this thread now, so I know I’m agreeing with a lot of people, but it was great movie in spite of the truly awful dialogue and a few actors who couldn’t act. One that surprised me was the guy playing the Emperor – he seemed to be a marvellous actor right up until they caked him with makeup, and then his acting skills seemed to go out the window.

I was particularly disappointed with the transformation, because I’d been told by a major Star Wars geek (a friend of mine who’s read every novel) that the Emperor became what he is because the Dark Side was slowly consuming his body. He apparently spent hours a day in a chamber undergoing rejuvenating treatment. The quick, unsubtle transformation didn’t work as well.

The theatre laughed out loud a lot – particularly in the “Noooooo” scene, and when names were announced. General Grievous? Darth Plagus? What’s next? Commander Tortures-Kittens? Mr. Smokes-too-much?

On the other hand, it was one of the most stunningly beautiful movies to look it. I’ve never seen a film with such a wonder-inspiring visual component, and I’ll say this for Lucas: he has an incredible imagination and a good eye for detail. While his sense of realism hasn’t yet spilled over into naturalistic dialogue, it is really easy to feel that you’re looking at real spaceships, real space battles, and so on. I never get that feeling with *Star Trek * – at least Lucas knows that ships don’t always have to be on the same plane. His cityscapes are also gorgeous – I love Corsucant.

Lucas, in his clumsy way, has taken some impressive risks in theme. Movies about democracy – especially ones that don’t reduce it to jingoism – are very risky. Most Hollywood entries about government tend to be quasi-fascist narratives (all politicians are too corrupt, debate is too slow, warrants are just red tape, innocent-until-proven-guilty just lets criminals off). Lucas has shown us the end of a democracy in a particularly realistic way.

I think his primary inspirations for that are the end of the Roman Republic, and the end of the Weimar Republic. Any resemblance to contemporary American history is probably the fault of history, not Lucas. He’s notoriously single-minded, and he probably did write the script ages ago and left it on the shelf.

I would’ve liked more background on the Sith. Sadly, background is the first thing to get cut. Some of Padmé’s best material in the second movie was left on the cutting room floor, because it was about politics. Frankly, both she and Anakin seemed more interesting when talking politics than love.

I’ve heard one apology for Lucas that the love scenes were deliberately bad – that he was mocking other Hollywood films, and that the triology was intended as anti-Hollywood because love doesn’t conquer all, politics is relevant, and happy endings are in short supply. Not sure if I give him that much credit, but it’s an interesting perspective.

Oh, and to the person who said they couldn’t believe anyone would go for someone as whiny as Anakin, Lucas did address that one by having Hayden Christensen parade around half-naked. Half the theatre was ready to go over to the dark side, after that :wink:

He might want to cut down a little, huh?

Close, but no cigar

Hey, she was pregnant. Hormones.

I went to see it again last night and this time noticed what may be another little parallelism… the lines that Padme and Anakin first utter when they regain consciousness after being rescued, and who they speak 'em to.

Padme to Obi-wan: “Is Anakin alright?” (Obi-wan reacts appropriately for someone who believes he’s just killed Anakin.)

Vader to Palpatine: “Is Padme alright?” (Palpatine twists the knife, "I’m afraid you’ve killed her.)

Palpatine totally killed her, the bastid.

I also didn’t notice before that Palpatine did a little “mind control” wave over Anakin’s head when he knelt beside his crispy body. Nice.

Sorry, I’m not a raving fanboy. I haven’t been keeping score.

This may already be mentioned, I only skimmed the thread, but one thing I found interesting is that he was Darth Vader before the injuries and the mask. I always assumed he was only Darth Vader once he got the fucked up and wore the suit, for some reason. I guess I associated the image and the character, not too surprisingly.

What the hell?

You don’t need to be a “raving fanboy” to come up with a grand total of 1. Anakin killing Dooku.

-Joe

If you read some of the “making of” books, you’ll see how Lucas puts together the stories. And they are anything but exactly plotted out before filming. He has some large picture elements, but no real specifics, and the stuff gets changed around quite a lot in filming. Originally, this movie was to reveal that Sidious had been behind Anakin’s birth, complete with Palpatine declaring himself Anakin’s father! Han Solo was to have been Yoda’s sidekick, and so on. So I wouldn’t read too too deeply into whatever happened to end up on screen. They just used whatever they thought worked best as a movie element.

At least according to one Lucas draft though, Sidious was actually pretty disappointed that his apprentice was so badly cripppled: it was a real let-down for him. And it makes sense with the movie too: if all Sidious cares about is his own power, why not kill Anakin and stick with Dooku? Why brag to Yoda about Anakin being more powerful than either of them?

In the script, it says that Windu had the upper hand as Anakin comes in, but it also says that Palpatine decides to use this to his advantage to force Anakin to make a choice. So it could be a little of both. Certainly frying your own face off (geez, why not STOP firing force lightinging when it rebounds at you???!) is a bit of a high price to bear for taking a dive. We do know that Mace certainly was on Sidious’s level, right up there with Yoda. The fight could have gone either way.

Which only goes to show what a total, lameass pussy Yoda is. Even after failing that one time, he is definately capable of taking Sidious on the right time if he picks his fight carefully. He even beat Sidious outright in a force to force face off. But he just gives up and lets the galaxy slip into darkness for 20 years. He’s not even very proactive about training Luke (and we never really get a good explanation for why they must be split up and given to normal families, instead of trained to be Jedi from birth to destroy the Sith)

Did his face really get disfigured in the fight with Windu? His face was disfigured when he appeared as Siduous in the earlier movies, so I assume he was using the force to make his face look normal, and “let himself go” after his fight with Windu because he could use it to blame the Jedis.

My impression is that this was the original intent, but Lucas changed his mind sometime during the pre-production of ROTS. You’ll notice that Palpatine looks the same way in the first half of ROTS as he does in Episode I, whereas in AotC, he looks older and more physically disfigured.

Yeah, after seeing it a second time, there’s nothing at all to suggest that Palpatine lost his lightsaber intentionally. He definitely played up his helplessness once Anakin arrived, but he would have been killed if Anakin had never showed up.

No, it’s not.

Wow. I’m glad we didn’t have to see that.

Just saw the movie this evening. I enjoyed it and I am enjoying this thread. I do have some questions though.

  1. How stupid is Dooku? He must of known that Palpatine was Sidious so why go ahead with such a silly kidnapping?

  2. So no jedi ever investigated why a clone army was ordered? Never bothered to have a look around and see what was up? Can’t trace bank accounts in the Republic?

  3. I thought it was a little cold for Obi-Wan to just leave Anakin there in the lava. Not even an effort to reach out to him.

No doubt he just did as he was told to do by his master.

Just like Grievous did.

As for leaving Anakin there, I think that the whole duel was Anakin’s chance to come back. Finally, beaten and dying, instead of showing any regret or anything remorseful at all we get, “I hate you!”.

So, well, fuck you. Fry, bastard!

-Joe

[QUOTE=Lochdale]

  1. So no jedi ever investigated why a clone army was ordered? Never bothered to have a look around and see what was up? Can’t trace bank accounts in the Republic?

QUOTE]
That bothered me a bit too, i know they really didn’t have a choice since it was the only army they had and they where at war but they could have at least investigated. Jango tells Obi Wan in AOTC he was hired by a guy named Darth Tyranus, shouldn’t that have been a pretty big clue the sith where behind the army?