Thoughts on Revenge of the Sith (unboxed spoilers)

Cafe Society
461

IIRC, all Jango ever says is “Tyranus.” And I don’t think Obi-Wan knows that name is the name of a Sith. After all, we don’t hear “Darth Tyranus” mentioned much in the movie. It’s always “Count Dooku”
And as for this:

Dooku thinks he’s in on a trap set for the Jedi. He knows who Palpatine is, and was obviously under the impression that they were on the same side. He thought he was staging Palpatine’s kidnapping, and once the Jedi came to rescue him, then he and his master would take them out. What he didn’t realize was that the joke was on him.

Notice, when Palptine says to Anakin, “Kill him!”, that Dooku gives Palpatine a look as if to say “Oh shit, I’ve been had!” In that brief moment before his death, Dooku realizes that he was the one who was set up, and that his master was a huge bastard who used him as bait for the Jedi. And we all know what happens to bait when we go fishing.

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I didn’t think that the writing was that bad. Even the love scenes. Maybe I’m just not very demanding of my movies but, quite frankly, I get the impression that some of you are looking for any possible nit to dig at. That said, these are the lines I thought were bad:
[ul][li]“The Force is a gateway to many abilities, some considered unnatural.” I may not have the line exactly right, but however it went, I thought that Ian McDiarmid’s delivery was off.[/li][li]“You’re breaking my heart” It sounded better in context than it did in the teasers, but it was still Nalie Portman’s worst line. Then again, Ms Portman also had the best line in the movie (“This is how liberty dies: to thunderous applause.”) so I’m inclined to giver her a pass.[/li][li]Anakin’s “with me or against me” line. Bad. Cliche. After Obi-Wan’s comment about serving democracy, Anakin should have said something like “Democracy has failed. Only a strong leader can save our society from crumbling. We need an emperor, not a weak chancellor who can’t do anything without begging for approval from the Senate.” Obi-Wan would respond with something like, “That’s tryanny, Anakin. You’re destroying the Republic in order to save it.” “Fine. Live in your fantasy world where talking solves problems. If you’re not with me, you’re against me.”[/li][li]“Nooooooooooooooo” You all know what I’m talking about. A simple scream of anguish, without the outstretched arms, would have been better. I didn’t mind the Frankenstein-esque walking. In fact, I thought it make the scene more realistic. No matter how advanced cybernetic technology is, walking on cybernetic legs just would’t be the same as walking on one’s natural legs. There’s going to be an awkward period where Anakin gets used to using his new legs.[/li][/ul]

Other thoughts:
[ul][li]Jar-Jar only got two cameos, and no speaking lines. Good move, Lucas. Our beloved Mr. Binks is best seen in small doses.[/li][li]I like how Senator Organa doesn’t really enter into the movie until the very end. Yes, we see him with the other senators near the beginning, but he’s still essentially just a good samaritan who stumbles into the conclict, and decides that he has to do the right thing. I like that.[/li][li]I kinda wanted to see Yaddle (Yoda’s species-mate) die. Just to see how Yoda would react. I have a theory that she was his sister. [/li][li]I also have a theory that Yoda went to Dagobah because that was his home world. I would have included a few extra lines in the scene where they split up Luke and Leia. After Obi-Wan gets his orders to go to Tattooine, he asks Yoda “And where will you be going, Master?” “To Dagobah.” “Dagobah? I’m not familiar with that system.” Bail Organa interjects with, “I’ve seen it. The only habitable planet is a jungle world, completely covered with nasty, smelly swamps.” At this, Yoda gets offended. “Nasty? Smelly? My home that is.” “Oh…uhhh…Sorry, sir.”[/li][li]Some of you are asking why the Jedi didn’t investigate the origins of the clone army. How do you know that they didn’t? In AofC, they established that Sifo-Dyas ordered the army. If Sideous covered his tracks well, the Jedi probably couldn’t learn much more than that. Even if they learned that Palpatine put up the money, at this point there’s not a whole hell of a lot they can do with that information. Palpatine has approval to use the army, and it’s not going away until the Separatist movement is crushed. Actually, this would explain why the Jedi have such an extreme distrust of Palpatine. It seems to me that they were sure that Palpatine wanted supreme power, but they didn’t realize that his plans involved getting rid of the Jedi. To them, the concept of eliminating the Jedi Knights would probably be as outragous as the president of the United States eliminating the FBI.[/li][/ul]

Overall, it was a great movie.

One more thing. What were those purple orbs in the opera-house-like theater supposed to be? It was obviously some sort of entertainment, but I couldn’t figure out what the nature of the show was. Was it an art exibit? A sporting event? (This would explain why people were applauding.) What are your ideas on what Palpatine and Anakin were watching?

463

I know that the special effects in this movie have been criticized plenty, but I’ll say that I really like big opening scenes, and this one does well. Here’s my criticism:

Others have pointed out Greivous’s lack of screen time and weakness as an enemy, and I agree. The one thing I would change about this movie is the lightsaber battle between him and Obi-Wan.

It’s kind of wierd. In Ep 1, we see two men fighting Darth Maul, who has a double light saber. In Ep. 2, Anakin uses 2 light sabers at one point against Dooku, and Yoda does awesome stuff with his! I had the idea in my head, w/o being a star wars fan who reads books or comics or watches cartoons all in the ‘Extended Universe,’ that the next logical step light saber-wise in Ep 3 would be a multiple-armed man with multiple lightsabers! I just had the idea! Not that I’m trying to sound like some creative guy, I’m just saying it’s the obvious cool thing to do! :slight_smile:

But here’s my one major criticism with this movie- this battle. Grevious starts spinning the two sabers, and in two seconds Obi has cut his hands off and flung his across the room! And then the clone army arrives and Obi fights Gr. on the circle car thing and ends up shooting him in his heart. Gosh, what a wasted opportunity! :rolleyes:

I mean, the movie could be 10 minutes longer- 2.5 hours long- right? Obi drops into the room, the army watches as these two guys battle it out in an awesome display of lightsabers! This would’ve been the pg13 version of a kill bill battle in my hands, and Grevious would’ve had his chance to shine as the villain before being cut to shreds and stabbed in his little alien heart. :smiley: Then the clone army bursts in and all hell breaks loose, and Obi skeddadles on his lizard thing! Could’ve been so sweet… :frowning:

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That’s my take on it too. That’s why Obi-Wan later had absolutely no faith in Vader’s ability to return from the Dark Side.

465

Good one on Lucas. Christiansen said Lucas did this for exactly the reason you state.

He said the suit was ill-fitting in other ways as well.

466

A thought on Kenobi’s “I have the higher ground…” line.

I took it figuratively as well as literally. Kenobi’s a good guy and thus is on morally higher ground than Anakin.

When Crispy-Anakin was dragging himself up the slope, that scene from The Fly II (when the bad guy/fly thing was crawling out of its cage to get his food) came immediately to mind.

467

I have a question about that scene. Did Obi-Wan cut off Anakin’s legs, or did the lava burn them off?

468

I’m pretty sure it was Obi-Wan’s lightsabre slash that severed the legs.

469

When Anakin leaped over Obi-Wan, Kenobi used his lightsaber and cut off Anakin’s legs and left arm.

470

One reason why Kenobi warned Anakin not to continue the attack. As Anakin was flipping over, Kenobi did the Ginsu bit on Anakin’s limbs.

“It’s slices, it dices, it makes cripples of dark Sith lords. LIGHTSABER! By Ronco!”

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Interjection!

Your attention is directed toward this samply piss-take on Vader’s “Noooooooooo!” (2.5 minute .mp3)

Heh.

472

My first thought was the Cirque du Soleil. That’s what it looked like to me, anyway.

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My immediate reaction was that we were seeing the Coruscant version of “O”. :smiley:

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I’m not sure what all I can add to this thread after 10 pages, but I’ll do my best.

Here is how I would have opened the movie:
The movie opens similarly, but when Anakin is told by Palpatine to kill Dooku, he hesitates. Dooku takes this opportunity and escapes. (I wouldn’t have both his hands cut off. I’d let him keep at least one, so he could violently fight his way to an escape pod / ship with his lightsabre.)

Anakin and Obi-Wan both yell for each other to save Palpatine so they can go after Dooku. There are a few wisecracks or sharp words between them as they carry Palpy to their ship together. They both take off after Dooku. Suddenly, Obi-Wan pauses. He sees, or thinks he sees, his old mentor. But he doesn’t understand, and it lasts only a moment.

Dooku heads for the nearest planet, which in my version happens to be Dagobah. Anakin displays his impressive piloting skills by making it through the rough atmosphere in one piece. On the ground, either Obi-Wan or Anakin comments that while the Force is strong here, they cannot sense Dooku, even after they find his ship. “The life force of this planet is somehow … masking him.” (A single line or two will work. This helps explain why Yoda would later hide there. Also, it explains something that doesn’t necessarily need explaining, but sort of fits: Why Luke doesn’t sense that the little green guy he meets is a Jedi Master.)

Palpy has some lines about how dangerous Dooku is and how he’ll say or do anything to survive. He knows that Dooku knows that Palpy wanted Anakin to kill him. Palpy is afraid Dooku might let slip that, oh, by the way, Palpy’s a Dark Lord of the Sith.

Anakin and Obi-Wan each tell the other to remain with Palpy and the ship while they search for Dooku. After a few angry words, Palpy points out there’s a cave nearby and possibly tracks leading to it from the general direction of Dooku’s escape pod. (The audience knows, or at least suspects, that he may have some stronger sense of his former pupil than the two Jedi. The two Jedi just think, at this point, that he has good eyes.) Before Obi-Wan can tell him to stay and protect Palpy, Anakin rushes forward into the cave.

(This is the cave where Luke later sees a vision of Darth Vader.)

Obi-wan is about to rush after him, when again the vision of his old mentor appears. He pauses. It appears the vision is pointing at or trying to indicate something about Palpy. Palpy cannot see the vision, and mentions to the hesitating obi-wan that he will be quite fine and the Jedi should go help Anakin finish off Dooku. Obi-Wan must make the same determination as Hamlet: Spirit of health, or goblin damned?

For a few moments, Anakin is alone there in the dark with his fears. Suddenly, Dooku attacks furiously. His back is to the wall, he knows now that his life is at stake, and he fights like a cornered animal. Anakin can barely keep up with him.

Obi-Wan joins the battle, but in closed quarters superior numbers aren’t much help. Dooku knocks Obi-Wan back with Force Lightning, then yells to Anakin, “You fool! Don’t you see what he’s doing?”

Again, Anakin hesitates. Dooku again takes this opportunity. He lashes out with Force Lightning, and for a moment it looks like Anakin is lost. He is in tremendous pain, pain he won’t soon forget. Not even twenty years later when he sees another Jedi being hit with Force Lightning. He draws on his anger, his hate, his lust for revenge. He somehow diverts the lightning, striking Dooku. Dooku shrivels from the unexpected onslaught.

Palpy appears behind Anakin and tells him to finish Dooku once and for all. His face full of anger and hate, Anakin kills the now completely defenseless Dooku.

Qui-Gon would be interwoven with the rest of the movie. His return wouldn’t be dealt with at the very end with a few measely sentences.

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In the books, it is explained that Yoda faced-off against a Dark Jedi (identity unknown) on Dagobah and killed him. That’s why the cave is filled with the Dark Side, and it’s also how Yoda managed to hide: his light and the dead guy’s darkness canceled each other out.

476

The Grevious character we were introduced to in Clone Wars is nowhere in evidence in Sith. In CW, he’s a deadly Jedi killer, trained by Dooku, and having some of the most incredible moves and actions scenes in the entire series. His tall, strange figure is menacing and brilliantly animated. In Sith, despite having personally charged into the heart of Jedidom and stolen the Chancellor, he’s for some reason described as a coward and then played as one. As a fighter, he’s played as a one trick pony: the cheap spinny blades which demonstrate no particular skill with a lightsaber. He’s far shorter and far less impressive. His cough is never explained, nor is the fact that despite calling him a droid, he’s obviosuly not one.

Lucas did originally film a scene for the movie with Grevious killing Shakti. Who knows why he cut it out. But they definately wasted the character.

477

I never thought of that! That makes a lot of sense.

(You know, I’ve never seen Cirque du Soleil. I could have seen them when I was in Las Vegas last fall, but I decided to see the Blue Man Group :slight_smile: )

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I don’t remember him from CW. When do we see him fight? You maybe don’t mean the movie…

The posters in this thread say that in the cartoon? series (that tells the story we don’t see between CW and Sith), Mace Windu uses the Force on him and crushes his chest a little? making him kinda wheezy.

Cool! I just looked that up, she’s a Jedi. That’s exactly what I wanted to happen! I wanted Obi and another Jedi, someone expendable who wouldn’t add to the 66 scene , to drop in there and fight Grevious in an incredible 5 minute saber battle, her getting chopped to bits, pg 13 style! I’ll have to check out what Lucas did when the dvd comes out… to me, it’s the most obvious flaw in the movie. Such a shame.

479

Overall the usage of the non-Palpatine villains in the prequel trilogy was pretty weak. Now, I’ll grant that I’m comparing them to Darth Vader, who is probably one of the top two or three movie villains of all time, but still…

480

I dunno if this has been cited yet, but I found it amusing (and overall I didn’t like the movie at all, so anything amusing got my attention) that in every scene on the senate world, busy lines of air-traffic could been seen in the background.

Screw all the high-level intrigue and scheming and betrayal; yer average Joe still has to get ta work!