Thoughts on Revenge of the Sith (unboxed spoilers)

Cafe Society
101

bleh. unsurprisingly, most of what i want to say has already been said. especially what Cuckoorex said in post #20 . there are so many things wrong that obviously could have been done better; the feeling i got was that i’m watching a movie version of a novel, where stuff like anakin’s turning was a watered down version of the original. (good idea, poor execution)

yoda giving up on his mission is just crap, especially amidst the surging lava backdrop of obiwan and vader’s duel to the death.

oh, it happened with darth maul and now mace vindu. when you have a lightsabre, there is no need to swing your arm back to deliver the death blow, just poke and stir dammit!

artoo kicking butt (and being kicked) was about only one in a few scenes that i liked.

it is this (’“only empire stormtroopers can be this accurate” and have them shoot off target when it is convenient’ attitude) that made the ease of the mass jedi write-off difficult to swallow. they’re Jedi dammit! not stormtroopers! about the only thing i wanted from this movie was a mass showdown with the jedis, and all i got was this lame code 66 nonsense. and they didn’t even do it properly as others have logically suggested.

exactly. they screwed up the darth maul death and now this. they seriously needed someone with better choreography, like Yuen Woping.

because it sounds odd/impressive? this ability to will yourself to death when there’s nothing wrong with you heath-wise?

i think star wars the franchise is as much about stupid, cute little things as anything else. wookies, ewoks, droids etc…

102

Fully agreed with Siddiqui on this one. I never understood why people revere the original trilogy as much as they do. Entertaining? Yes. Good acting? Definately NOT! The only actor from the original trilogy who actually went anywhere was Harrison Ford. The prequels have been ever bit as entertaining to me as the originals. Most likely because I was in college by the time I saw the prequels, rather then seeing them as a kid.

I think back to movies/tv shows I saw as a kid - Knight Rider, etc and they bring up fond memories. If I watch a show like that now that I didn’t see as a kid, it would suck. I think for a lot of people, the original trilogy is more about nostalgia then actual good acting and good script.

Ever watch a movie that everyone else says is great, but you watch it and it doesn’t seem too great? Spinal Tap was that way for me - but the thing is I watched it when 1) I was older and 2) I was by myself. Not to conducive to funny. On the other hand, I saw ‘Gone in 60 Seconds’ with a friend who has a sense of humor similar to mine, and it was great. However, I recognize that when I see it now, it’s funny parts are rooted mostly in the nostalgia of it rather then actually being funny.

Anyhow - thats just my take on the original trilogy. I do have a few questions/comments after watching Sith though:

  1. In Episode IV, how does Leia know of Obi-wan? Did I miss something? She puts the schematics of the death star in R2D2 with a message to Obiwan.

  2. How is it that the clone army, fighting for the Jedi, suddenly takes orders from a sith lord to execute order 66? Its not like when the order was given, it was the chancellor giving the order - he was in full sith get-up. Did the emporer get to a few major battalion leaders and convince them that the Jedi were evil similarly to how he convinced Anniken? And why didn’t the underling clones resist?

  3. This occured to me after reading this thread and about the possibility that Palpatine created Anniken for the sole purpose of creating an apprentice: I think this would have been the case. Palpatine tells Anniken that that sort of power is considered ‘unnatural’. Anniken is created by the force in an ‘unnatural’ manner and turns to the dark side - essentially what created him. However, his son, Luke, is created the normal way and doesn’t turn to the dark side when tempted. Although I suppose Anniken eventually turns back to the light in ROTJ - so maybe that theory doesn’t quite hold water.

  4. This one had too much eye candy. Too distracting.

  5. I have a whole new level of respect for McGregor’s acting. As has already been said - his anguish when fighting Anniken couldn’t have been better.

103

Yeah, that Alec Guinness, what a hack…

104

Haven’t read the whole thread yet so it may have been answered, but in the Clone Wars cartoon, vol 2, Grevious was boarding his getaway ship when Obi-Wan (or one of the Jedi) force-gripped the cyborg’s chest cavity, crushing it a bit before the door closed and Grevious got away. Hence the breathing difficulty.

105

Yay! Ye gods, that was better than I had any right to hope for. Way to redeem yourself, George.

But, sadly, he did drop the ball. Anakin’s turn was far too fast. See, I think Anakin’s clunky and unsophisticated love for Padme actually kind of works - he’s obsessed with her, but doesn’t really understand what love is. And this obsession goes a long way to explaining his fall. However, when Sidious says, “Well, I don’t really know, but we’ll find out together,” and Anakin just accepts it, that was a major failing. It doesn’t fit with his character at all. The only reason he turns to Sidious is because Sidious has this knowledge, and it should be a huge blow when he finds out he’s been lied to. Huge. But it barely registers. If I’d been Anakin, and I’d done exactly the same things, and I heard Sidious say that, I’d been all “What! F*cker!” and would’ve chopped him in half right there and then. This was a major betrayal, and nothing happens. Such an opportunity lost, there.

And the Vader yelling, “No.” Um, yeah. That was bad. Vader’s so chilling precisely because he has so little emotion. Tho’ he does have a penchant for killing people who fail him because of incompetence, when he’s fairly beaten, he just accepts it. There’s no rage there at all. And that’s what makes him such a powerful character - he controls his rage so tightly, he’s so cold. Having him yell, while possibly in character for Anakin, is not in character for Vader. I agree that only the hiss of the respirator while he silently destroys everything around him would’ve been much more powerful in that scene.

Nice touch, however, making Sidious genuinely care about Vader - that came through neatly when he rescues Anakin from the lava river. And many, many mad props to George for not having Anakin fall into the lava as I’d heard growing up - that little theory was just too unbelieveable, at least for me.

But yeah, I need to see it again. And I got a free t-shirt! The theatre I saw it at hired a place called “Master Replicas” and they had storm troopers that threw t-shirts into the crowd. I snagged one, and yeah, I’m wearing it with pride today. I’m revelling in my nerdity, at least for this week.

106

Yeah, that Carrie Fischer sucks too. It’s not like she’s done anything of note.

I’m guessing her father told her to deliver the plans to Obi-wan if she found herself in dire circumstances. Her father and Kenobi worked together fairly closely (in this last movie, at least), and seemed to share the same world view. And Bail Organa knew where Obi-wan was hiding.

Because the Chancellor is ultimately their commander-in-chief. Yeah, the Jedi generals are their immediate leaders in the battle, but their orders originate with the Chancellor. I don’t think their training allows them to differentiate commands from the Chancellor in Senate dress and the Chancellor in Emperor-wear - the orders came from the same person, regardless of how he’s dressed.

107

Hopefully, I’ll have little enough work to do today that I’ll actually get the chance to read the rest of this thread, so bear with me if I repeat anything. :slight_smile:

I saw the midnight show on Wednesday … and left so excited that even though I didn’t have to be at work until noon yesterday, I couldn’t sleep at all. My heart rate accelerated as soon as the Fox logo came up, and didn’t stop until dawn.

This is probably gong to sound ridiculously girly, but I don’t care–I cried from the moment Anakin figured out Palpatine was the Sith Lord. I couldn’t believe it affected me that deeply, and I still feel a little teary when I think about it for too long. (Won’t stop me from seeing it again tonight, though.)

Even more girly–dear gods Anakin is hot. :slight_smile:

I loved the idea that R2 never got a memory wipe. In the later books, it’s made clear that all droids are supposed to have periodic wipes to keep them functioning correctly, and C-3PO and R2 are unusual in that their owners will not allow it. In fact, by the Thrawn trilogy, Luke’s X-Wing cannot be operated by any droid but R2 because R2 has more or less developed his own damn language. The idea that he remembers everything and could tell Luke and Leia so much if they only asked him will make me itchy for the rest of my life.

A few weeks ago, there was a thread asking opinions on what order to present the films to the next generation. Without a doubt, I say start with IV and end with III. Firstly, the Vader-as-father/Twins Revelations will be rather unimpressive if the prequels are seen first, and second, thinking of Vader as the ultimate evil and then seeing the heartbreak that provoked his turn … sigh I’m going to cry again.

108

And Obi-wan lives for 20 years on the same desert shithole as Luke, son of Vader, and never even knows it? Or doesn’t have any curiosity if he does know? He has his father’s lightsaber handily stashed away. A billion planets out there, and Obi-wan and Luke just happen to be on the same desert shithole and don’t know each other.

I’m not a big Star Wars geek, this has probably been answered someplace.

109

Well… It’s kind of answered in the movie, in the scene where Obi-wan gives Luke to Owen and Beirut (or whatever their names are). :slight_smile:

110

Obi-Wan knows Luke is there, he’s there in the first place to watch over him. In Episode IV, it’s clear that Luke knows who Obi-Wan is (as Ben Kenobi, of course), but they’re not exactly close. And that Uncle Owen has done his best to keep Ben the hell away from Luke.

111

Apropo of nothing, other than I’m a sword-fighting geek and someone earlier was bored by the number of hands getting chopped off:

Lucas and choreographers based the lightsaber fighting style in large part on kenjutsu, the sword fighting art of the Samurai. For example, the pose that a couple of the Jedi adopt where they stand face-on with the sword held above and behind their head is typical of kenjutsu and not one you’d find in many other martial arts

It just so happens that one of the primary targets for kenjutsu is the hands - Musashi (legendary Japanese swordsman) spends a great deal of time in his “The Five Rings” describing ways of separating people’s hands from their wrists.

I thought that in particular, the two-fer that Anakin gave Dokku was pretty sweet.

FWIW.

112

So good is stronger, because it has the ability to hang around in an effete-manner until evil kills evil? Except that in most cases when that happens, evil isn’t really destroying evil, it’s just new evil taking over for old evil?

My problem is I’m not seeing the criterion for determining how the Light Side is ever stronger (other than the power of love, which will turn evil to good, and solve good’s problem for it).

I’m in for the dive theory. Palpatine give the beat down to multiple jedi at one time, and smacks down the 800 year old green master, but Windu had him? Seems to convenient.

That being said, that is my presumption. I admit that Windu could be deemed a bit of an exception, depending on your point of view.

113

The way I interpreted the “will to live” piece was this:

When Padme finds out that the love of her life has turned evil, and then he injures her maliciously, her world is shattered. A person’s state of mind has a lot to do with how one recovers from serious injury. I think Padme really didn’t want to live in a world where her two great loves, Democracy and Anakin, have been subverted to evil purpose, and that made it harder for her to recover. The scene where she starts crying as the now-Emperor declares “Empire!” to thunderous applause in the Senate really drives this point home, and it’s probably Portman’s best scene.

My take on order 66 was that this was something that was programmed into the clones’ brains during their development, so they had no choice but to obey.

I also want to add that I thought Mace Windu’s death was pretty freakin’ spectacular.

114

I wonder if it was an intentional nod to Sir Alec “Obi Wan I” Guinness’s Oscar winning role when Anakin, after causing Windu’s death, says “Oh god what have I done…” (or something similar). Those were the words of Guinness in Bridge on the River Kwai when [major spoiler- don’t read if you haven’t seen the movie]

he kills the soldier who attempts to blow up the bridge his men built for the Japanese war effort

115

First of all, I have a theory about Leia’s memory of her mother. There’s nothing in the movies to support this, but I like to think that Leia’s adoptive mother, the Senator’s wife, dies a few years after Leia is adopted. Later, he re-marries another woman, who happens to be a queen like Padme’s mother. That’s why she becomes known as ‘Princess’ Leia.

In EpVI, when Luke asks her about her ‘real’ mother, Leia is actually recalling her first adoptive mother - whom she always assumed was her real mother.

Probably not what Lucas had in mind but it fits what we’re shown.

I’d also like to chime in to agree that the acting in the prequals wasn’t stellar, but the acting in the originals (aside from Guiness and Ford) was really bad also, and the dialogue was terrible. I re-watched the original trilogy last week and the dialogue was really cringe-inducing - I hadn’t noticed when I was ten years old. But, that’s okay for these space-opera type movies.

Overall, I was very pleased with EpIII. Nice way to end the epic.

116

Bail Organa, in addition to being a Senator, is the Viceroy of Alderaan, which is what makes Leia a princess, not whoever her mother is.

Unfortunately, we really don’t have enough info on this. Leia knows she’s adopted, but who knows when she was told.

I can’t argue too strenuously on this … mostly because when my friend and I did the prerequisite re-watch last week, I laughed so hard I nearly choked when Obi-Wan calls Vader “Darth” on the Death Star like it’s his first name. :slight_smile:

117

As for the “nooooo!” I totally bought it. Yeah, Anikan was called Darth Vader. Yeah, Anikan was dressed like Darth Vader. But Anikan was not yet the same Darth Vader that we knew and loved 18 odd years later. He was still Anikan dressed in a Vader suit, and I think we should all be able to buy the fact that Anikan would have screamed his “no” in that manner. Anikan had almost 20 years to become cool to the world.

118

I’m going to agree with this. I didn’t have a problem with the “Nooooooo!” Yes, it would have been pretty cool if he had destroyed the room in silence, but Anakin was still just a kid, really, and one who had just discovered that he betrayed everyone and everything he cared about for absolutely no reason. Padme, the child, and the entire Jedi order except for Obi-Wan were all (as far as he knew) dead, and he had accomplished nothing.

119

Oops, meant to add that the Sith commissioned the clones in the first place, in the guise of being a normal, secret Jedi purchase. I think Order 66 may have even been bred into them kind of thing. It’s only by “lucky chance” that Obi-wan stumbled onto them, and was able to use them to “save the Republic” in the close wars.

It was all part of Palpantines grand plan from the very beginning. The end of episode 2 was the perfect foreshadowing for knowing that at some point the clone army would serve Palpatine. The whole point of episode 2 was to see how the Republic became an empire.

I never realized there was so much ire for episode 2 before, either. I thought it was fantastic compared to episode 1, and that George had redeemed himself at that point.

120

I’m guessing she got a call as Alderaan was being destroyed. “Darling, we’re being blown up because you failed in your mission, but don’t feel guilty. By the way you’re adopted. Love Dad… where’s my towel? I…” [beep]