I doubt I would have wanted to sit through three hours and ten minutes of this movie . . . but I might point out that Return of the King was about 3 and a half hours long. And I believe it did okay, moneywise . . .
I’m just sayin’, is all . . .
Clones does better on IMDb (currently 7.0 to 6.4), if that’s any consolation.
The difference in degree of rottenness between the two films is an interesting philosophical question. Imagine for a moment that these two films were really the first two of the franchise–how would they have fared? I can guarantee you they would have bombed in precisely the same way as Chronicles of Riddick did: with decent but not mind-blowing special effects and a retarded story (actually, I will take Riddick over Ep I & II any day).
Actually, Clones would never have been made with Ep I being of the quality that it was.
Anyway, what’s better about Clones except that perhaps it has less overall rot? Less Jar Jar, less fun with accents and ethnic stereotypes (Shiftless Negro Jar Jar, Plotting Chinaman Trade Fed Mandarin, Evil Hebrew Watto)–wow, less garbage overall, but replaced with… what? There isn’t even a Darth Maul to kick some ass around. Nothing, nada.
In some ways, Clones is the worse movie because although it has less to trash it up it also has less to make it exciting, too.
Man, just thinking about those first two flicks makes me ill.
But they are suspicious, as evidenced by their distrust of Palpatine, and their almost pathological insistence that he abdicate all “Emergency Powers” immediately upon hearing word that General Grievous (the separatist’s military genius) is dead.
This may be the funniest thing I’ve ever read . . . 
Very nice.
I cannot believe that Samuel L Jackson is getting sucha free pass here. He flat out sucked, ruined big chunks of the movie. The guy can’t be anything other than Sam Jackson, aka Jules, which is fine, but he’s as for from being a senior Jedi master as they come.
I’m not sure if I feel like he was the impetus of the downfall of the Jedi because Lucas wanted it to feel that way, or if it was because I just thought he was awful and contrary in this role. Sucked, big time!
That said, I still really enjoyed the movie. I’ve come to expect awful dialogue from Lucas and Co, so I can deal with that. The Anakin/Padme romance makes porno seem deep and heartfelt, I’m fine with that. The “NOOOO!” cliche at the end spoiled somewhat what would have been a legendary scene, and I agree a emotional, but more silent reaction would have been best. I loved the crushing of everything around him, I would have taken that a step further and had him react speechlessly, perhaps with him clenching his fists. I also hated that his arms were strapped down and he broke free. Why? Shouldn’t he have just been laying there and gotten up instead of the clunky Frankenstein homage?
Sorry to ramble, but this thread is a struggle to get through and still have a coherent thought to share.
Wow, it’s a pretty sad state of affairs when every single suggested replacement for the “NOOOOO!” scene that I’ve heard sounds better than the one actually used. 
I especially like Cuckoorex’s idea. THAT would’ve chilled me to the bone. It would be totally consistent with the Vader we see in the original trilogy, and would’ve served as a great moment of closure: this is the moment when Anakin Skywaler “dies,” from Obi-wan’s point of view, and when Darth Vader is truly born.
Instead, it was all I could do to stop myself from bursting out laughing.
I think there are three main problems with the “NOOO” scene as filmed.
First of all, obscuring Anakin’s face with the mask during this scene makes it far more cartoonish than it should’ve been- we should be empathizing with his anguish, not snickering at the idea of DARTH VADER screaming at the skies. It would’ve been far better if Sidious had told him about Padme before the masking- I could’ve bought that wrecked body screaming “NOOOO” as the combined agony of his wounds and newfound emotional despair become too much for him to bear. Certainly, the one thing Hayden Christensen does really well as an actor is get across screaming fits of anger; I see no reason why he wouldn’t have nailed such a shot.
Secondly, the way its filmed just doesn’t mesh with the brutal realism of the previous scenes. Sure, it’s Star Wars and thus filled with floating gadgets and evil black masks, but the last several scenes (i.e. from Anakin’s amputations onward) were powerful because they were shot to emphasize the reality of Anakin’s predicament. Simple shots of the metal hand grasping the molten soil, the Emperor tending to Anakin in a way that almost seems fatherly, that haunting intercutting between Anakin’s burned body on the medical bed and Padme screaming in childbirth… and then suddenly, we get Frankenstein’s monster raising his fists in the air and bellowing like a mechanical King Kong, complete with corny camera pullback. It just doesn’t mesh with the tone of the previous scenes, which is all the worse considering that it is clearly supposed to be the most emotionally gripping scene of the trilogy.
Lastly, and most importantly, I couldn’t buy Darth Vader worrying about Padme simply because the setup was terrible. I’m talking all three movies now- if a filmmaker wants to make his or her audience care about a tragedy, he has to first make the audience care about the people involved. And honestly, I didn’t give a shit about Padme by the end of ROTS, nor did I buy her “shared love” with Anakin. So Vader’s “anguish” comes off as unbelievable, and the fact that it’s staged in such a melodramatic fashion makes it come off as laughable.
Compare this to Han Solo’s encasement in carbonite. At this point, we have grown to care about these two people, the wry scoundrel with the heart of gold, the rebel princess who seems wise in years when it comes to politics and war, and so the moment of their separation is heartbreaking. They’ve earned that moment through every Han and Leia moment of the last two films. And of course, it helps a lot that despite the emotion of the moment, Han’s last words are delivered without melodrama, without histrionics. There’s a reason why the “I love you” / “I know” exchange is considered one of the most powerful scenes in the most powerful episode of the Star Wars saga, and it’s because it’s genuinely resonant in the minds and hearts of the audience. In that sense (for this audience-member, at least), Darth Vader’s scream was an utter failure.
Hey now, R&D is a bitch. Building the prototype takes longer than the next one, think of the first nuclear vessels or whatever. Plus the emperor can’t be as blatent on spending in the first days of the empire as later when he’s able to dismiss the senate.
Palpatine’s thoughts while watching Anakin fight Dooku:
“I like this the style of this chair. Note to self: always have this sort of chair when watching my new apprentice kill my old apprentice.”
My thoughts on the “Nooooo” scene:
I personally would’ve loved to have Anakin lying there, with all the leather and doo-dads attached, immobile on the table with medical droids running around behind him getting the last doo-dad (Dark Helmet) ready. As we can see the Vader he’ll become (leather, cape, etc.) and the Anakin he’s been (young man’s face horribly burned), he turns to the Emperor who’s standing there watching and asks in a horrible, burned vocal cord voice about Padme.
Emperor - Oh! I’m sorry. Did I neglect to mention that she died? Nothing to be done. Sad, really.
Anakin’s eyes open in horror at what he’s done, screams incoherently (put a “nooooo” in if you must, but a plain ol’ scream works just as well), and gets his scream cut off suddenly by the mask finally being lowered onto his face.
Do a little montage, showing him lying there for some time. Staring off into space, moving his arms, shaking his head, what have you. Let him stew in what he’s done, and what he’s doomed to be from now on.
Emperor comes back in, medico droids report that Vader’s ready to be fired up. They do so.
Vader stands, turns to the Emperor, kneels, looks up at him. “What…what is thy bidding, my Master?”
On the Death Star - where is it written that the Death Star was new at the battle of Yavin? I don’t remember any references in ANH that it was a new beast. Meaning I don’t think it took 20 years to build - I think they just built it in, dunno, 5 years or so and then used it in the interim to terrorize the galaxy. Remember, it had its own propulsion systems. I’m thinking that it was in there to show us how Sidious was going to establish control, not that “here’s the thing that you’ll get to see 20 years later.” It seems to me that the Death Star was a fairly established reality in ANH. But I could be wrong.
I seem to recall that it was stated somewhere that Death Star mark II was a good deal bigger than the first; something like twice or four times as big.
I’m sure you’ll get it all on the Ultra-Super-Spectacular-Ultimate-Special Edition DVD.
SWE1:ANH
OB1: “I have something for you. Your father wanted you to have it when you were old enough.”
LIAR!!! (of course that wasn’t the only thing he lied to Luke about)
So was that Anakin’s saber or his own that he picked up at the banks of the great lazy lava river? I assume it was Anakin’s, OB figuring “Hmm, don’t wanna let a good lightsaber go to waste. Not like he can use a blue one any longer.”
I’m really not getting all the hate for this movie. I really enjoyed it, and thought it was much improved over the last two. Do I have some nits to pick? Sure. Here’s my big one: The thrown-in exposition at the end where Yoda tells Obi Wan about Qui Gon’s return from the dead. That’s one of the rules of screenwriting is to only show the most interesting stuff in the story. If somebody comes back from the dead in your story, that’s pretty fucking interesting. He should have just left it hanging and not even tried to explain it. It’s one of the mysteries of the Force.
But that’s a nit, and compared to the vast amount of stuff the movie got right, it’s not a big deal.
Yes, that was Aanakin’s saber, the same one he gives to Luke in New Hope, so he wasn’t lying.
The Death Star in Ep. IV is definitely new. I think it’s even mentioned in the opening crawl. But think of the scenes with Governor Tarkin and Princess Leia. When he’s getting ready to pulverize Alderaan, he tells her that it’s a test to certify that the station is operational, and that they’ve chosen the planet to test on because of her reluctance to tell them where the rebel base is. And after she lies to them, he says that Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration, implying that they’re also trying to show off the new battle station to keep people in line.
He lied about Anakin ever saying he’d like his weapon passed on to his kid.
Yes, right after he lied about Vader killing Luke’s father.
They cut the scene of Yoda communing with Qui Gon. Which is a shame. Show show show, but instead they chose to tell.
TAGGE: Until this battle station is fully operational we are
vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. They’re more
dangerous than you realize.
MOTTI: Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a
useless gesture, no matter what technical data they’ve obtained. This
station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use
it!
TARKIN: This bickering is pointless. Lord Vader will provide us with
the location of the Rebel fortress by the time this station is
operational. We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke.
–A New Hope
It was worth waiting in line three hours to see, and simply blew episodes I and II out of the water. I thought almost all of the lose ends were wrapped up well, although I feel the whole Sifo Dyas (or however it’s spelled) issue was left hanging. How did he die? What happened to him? Who paid for this clone army? If Palpatine arranged it, why wasn’t he checking up on it every now and then?
I loved that lizard. I thought he and Anikin bonded awfully quickly, though.
Best line in the whole movie.
The droids are running Microsoft Windows? That explains sooooo much!
It’s clear in Episode III that Bail Organa (Leia’s adopted dad) and Obi-Wan know each other quite well. If she has to bail out fast with the plans, of course Organa would send her to Obi-Wan.
What, you’ve never heard of backups?