What what what what!!! :confused How can you wait so long without having sex geez!!! I have no comment on your situation, more scared though as didn’t know people like you guys excisted, impressive though, you could probably be in the year 2000+ guiness book of records. 
Well, from what I’ve heard from people, there are a lot of compelling reasons to wait. It’s a scary thing, but not without merit.
I’ve read through just about all of this, but what really scared me was this:
Posted by Tensoc:
How can someone spend days/weeks/months debating having sex but be so casual about marriage??
Maybe it does make sense… after all a bad decision about marriage can be undone a whole lot easier than the results of an unwanted pregnancy.
I’m scared by this post!
People in this thread seem to be easily scared.
Sorry, HPL, I have drive-by-can’t-spell-aphobia. 
I haven’t read all of the above posts (but most of them), and I didn’t see any clergy chime in, so I thought I’d jump into the fray.
I can see why if you have no religious affiliation or spiritual leanings that the decision to wait would be tough. Given the available precautions against STD’s, society’s rather blase’ feelings about the matter today, and the fact that you’ve known each other for four years, why wait?
If you do have spiritual leanings, or a Judea-Christian background, I can tell you the scriptures are without ambiguity or prevarication - they state to wait until after marriage. Anything else is considered “sin”. I know, an unpopular and old-fashioned word.
Just a few thoughts on the dichotomy in current thoughts and trends about sex - and please don’t write of what I say simply because I’m a pastor. My wife and I have been married 15 years, and we’re still “F***ing like animals” to quote a N.I.N. song. We do it 3-4 times a week, we’ve done it naked on a beach within talking distance of other people, we’ve done it in the development pool, the front porch, every room in the house, and in every position and variety possible. EVERY variety…in fact, we’re doing it as I type this response…OK, a little exaggeration there.
My point is, sex is GREAT for us, and we waited until we were married, and had no other partners before each other.
Its seems that today, “sex” has grown exponentially in its perceived importance in relationships. In fact, “sex” has taken the place of “relationship” in an entire generation’s mind (a generality and an exageration again. Sorry). There is hardly a TV show, a movie or an Advertisement that doesn’t make sex its central (or at least a very important) theme. Its no wonder why anyone under 30 would have such a skewed (IMHO) perception of what’s important in a relationship. We only know what we’re fed, and we’re fed a diet of sex, sex, and more sex.
The fact of the matter is, as much as my wife and I like sex (and boy, do we like it), its only about 10% of our relationship, if that. I married her because of her character, her personality, her sprituality (she was a missionary at the time), her integrity, her commitment and devotion, and her ideals and belief system. I adored being with her, talking to her, sharing my thoughts and dreams, being with her when I was joyful and when I was grieving. And, she felt the same way about me. What’s more, I KNEW she felt that way, and she knew my innermost thoughts and desires as well.
Oh, we fooled around a lot when we were dating. We probably raised the temperature in the entire dorm with some of those make-out sessions. We engaged in those whole-heartedly and with great anticipation, becuase we had already made the decision that we were NOT going to have sex, no matter what. We knew where the lines were drawn, and we were still able to find out a lot about each other’s sexuality and likes and dislikes during that time.
Just a word about “great sex” that someone shared with me when my wife and I were preparing to get married. Great sex happens when both partners are 100% sold out and commtted to doing whatever it takes to please the other partner. Simple as that. I made that commitment to my future wife, and she to me.
I do a lot of marriage counseling and it never fails - when a couple are having a rough time and sex is percieved to be the problem, 9 times out of 10 there are actually two things going on -
- One or both of the partners is being consumed with the “its all about ME and what I want” attitude, and
- Its not really about the sex. There are many other things lacking in the relationship which effect directly how they approach sex together.
I discovered early in life that I was pre-occupied with sex, and had a sex drive as strong or stronger than my friends. Not a good thing for someone planning to go into ministry! Or so I thought at the time, anyway. I am SO glad that I married a sex-crazed minx like my beautiful wife. Was she a sex-crazed minx before we were married? No, she was a quiet music student who had committed herself to becoming a single missionary overseas.
As a spiritual person, I believe God knew my needs and knew what my wife was capable of. In addition, He knew what she would grow into and that I could provide for her needs as well.
The point I’m taking to long to make is this - I believe we have a soul mate, a person that will make the perfect partner. I believe we can, with God’s help, find that person and have a beautiful life together, great sex and all. And, I think you can do that without having to do a bunch of “test drives” as so many people have mentioned here. The sad flip-side of that statement is that I don’t see how anyone can hope to find that soul mate or have a beautiful, giving relationship without Divine help.
My advice? If she’s the one, get married and start enjoying all that God intended for you to enjoy. If your not sure? Wait until you are.
OK, so I’ve shared my romantic, flowery views on marriage. If your a “just the facts” type of guy, here’s a fact from the Barna Research Group, the second largest survey and research group in the country -
Marriages are FOUR times more likely to fail if one partner has subscribed to the “test drive” theory of mate selection, SEVEN times more likely if both partners have (don’t know why its not 8 times if both, just what the survey results showed).
Good Luck to both of you!
I’m not sure what ‘the test drive theory of mate selection’ means here. Do you mean if the partners have sex before marriage? Do you mean cohabitation?
Also, from a scientific standpoint, you’re wrong to imply that premarital sex leads to an increased rate of divorce. Correlation doesn’t equal causation, as the saying goes.
Good post, but like Marley23, I’d be interested in knowing what you meant by the “test drive theory”.
Do you mean people who just believe that or have believed that at some point?
Or are all people who’ve had premarital sex at ALL just doomed to fail at their relationships?
Also, for those who keep saying “we ‘made out’ and knew what each others’ likes and dislikes were”. Ummmm, do those of you who had “heavy make out sessions” NOT consider those to be “sex”???
In my book, if there was heavy breathing, and climaxing going on, whether or not clothing was taken off and actual penetration occured, that IS sex, despite the fact that “technically” there wasn’t “intercourse” or oral sex.
If I waited to marry before having sex, I’d be a 44 year old and counting virgin, as I’ve never married.
I think it would be a poor decision to wait.
Waiting works better then some then for others, but is a legitimate sexual lifestyle choice.
Since the OP has indicated that the decision has been made, let’s just keep on offering irrelevant advice.
My 2 bits:
Live your life as to minimize regrets.
Regrets come in two basic flavors:
a. DAMN! I wish I’d hadn’t done that!
- and -
b. WHY didn’t I do that when I had the chance?!
In my experience, it is (b) which nags much more.
Just something to consider.
and, in case you don’t already know: some (conservative) Catholics consider it a sin to ever enjoy sex. really. If you two have that big of a difference in attitudes, DO NOT have sex - RUN!
Yes, the concept of “wifely duties” is apparently still with us
Marley23, Good reply…I also agree with the “Correlation doesn’t equal causation” statement. Barna’s research verges on bad science in that while the facts are true, you shouldn’t imply that “test driving” CAUSES marriages to fail, but that possibly those who are willing to test drive before marriage, are also more likely to end the marriage. As an earlier poster alluded to, maybe those who subscribe to the “test drive” model are also those who are more likely to decide they want to trade up a few years later, or elect to drive a “loaner” when the original model isn’t available, thus causing the original model to put themselves back on the market :~)
Funny thing I just realized - in real life with real cars, I’m one those persons who buys a car and drives it, through thick and thin, for hundreds of thousands of miles until it finally gives up the ghost and can no longer be driven. I then with great sadness donate it to the local parts place or car ministry.
On another note -
Also a good reply, canvasshoes. Technically, the scriptures forbid intercourse before marriage. However, beyond that, it also equates “mental intercourse” as just as bad, ie. dwelling on or entertaining the thought of out-of-bounds sex. No one is above the un-planned glance at a beautiful, attractive member of the opposite sex, nor of the “stirring of the loins” that may involuntarily follow. As we were taught as kids, however, its not the “first glance” that gets you into trouble, but that second (or third or fourth, of course) lingering look that takes you into out of bounds territory.
Now, my then fiancee’ and I knew we were going to get married, and we also knew that both of us had committed NOT to have sex before marriage, no matter what. We knew we would and could hold to that, we held each other accountable as did our friends who had also made similar commitments. When we “made out” (which was not all the way to orgasm, by the way. We didn’t go that far in what we were doing. At least I didn’t…), the ultimate goal was not that it was foreplay leading to intercourse, but just honest enjoyment of each other’s company and loving attentions. I wasn’t dreaming about intercourse, and as far as I know neither was my wife. Its hard to describe, and now as a happily sexually active couple, I don’t know that we could do it that way again. Anyway, we felt we were not breaking the “Don’t do it” rule OR the “don’t fantasize about it” rule.
Whew! How’s that for a fancy bit of legalism? Just goes to show you, even pastors are not above a little old fashioned rationalism every once in a while (at least when they are young) :~)
And, its a shame that some churches once unofficially frowned on the “joy of sex”. Sex was created and ordained by God for our pleasure (as well as for procreation), and not something to be ashamed of. The book in the bible “Song of Solomon” is one long session of internet sex, before there was the internet. In it, the writer speaks with beautiful poetic language of the pure pleasure of beholding his spouses naked body, of the joy of the many intimate acts they share together (including intercourse, oral sex, erotic visual and manual stimulation, etc). It is a steamy love poem full of sexual energy and imagery, with beautiful poetic phrases and sly double entendre’s, such as this reply from the writer’s spouse -
“My love is like a garden enclosed, a spring shut up, or a fountain sealed - A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon. Awake, O north wind; and come south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits”
You don’t hear many sermons from these texts, but they’re there, and they are an inspiration for devoted lovers everywhere.
If you agree it’s wrong to imply that, why did you do it?
Yes, that’s all possible. But I don’t think a lot of divorced people, looking back on their marriages, would say “everything would’ve been fine if we hadn’t had premarital sex.”
Actually, quite a few do (in counseling). They may be wrong (there’s usually lots of other problems involved), but this is quite often one of their sincere regrets.
And, I originally offered the Barna quote without stating causal relationship, but simply as a published statistical fact - make of it what you will. My apologies if my wording led you to read it as otherwise.
Cheers!
I would expect that from people who are in counseling with a pastor.
Like I said before, it’s silly to think premarital sex alone will cause a marriage to fail, which is a far cry from the parties involved saying they regretted it later. You say yourself there are usually lots of other problems. If anybody felt premarital sex was even the BIGGEST problem, let alone the sole reason for the breakup of a marriage, I’d have doubts about their sanity.
Not much of an issue in Britain, either. For God’s sake, DO IT! Do it right now, this minute, it’s been FOUR YEARS for Christ’s sake! Go on, stop reading this and go do it.
However, if you are still reading, I’ll just say that in my opiniion as long as you’re both consenting adults and you’re careful, then sex is never wrong. And it’s also a lot of fun - go on, try it, etc, etc.
I am trying to teach my kids to wait until they get married. So far 3 out of 5 kids have NOT listened.
My mum tried to teach me that too. Oddly enough though, she was a bit of a go-er herself in the 70s, and I was what was quaintly termed a “love child”. She says I should learn from her mistakes, I say I have - I use birth control!
I have to agree, IMHO, the problems that sex cause in whether a relationships fails or succeeds lies in whether or not the couple has sex TOO SOON in the relationship.
IMHO, marrying for lust rather than love, which is likely to happen if you meet, have sex and spend 3 months in a lust induced haze that you mistake for “true love” and then get yourselves married while still under this cloud of lust and infatuation.
I wonder what the studies and pastors/counselors etc would have insofar as data for people who did have premarital sex, but it was either after a good long time of getting to know each other, or that their relationship had prospered and grown even after the “infatuation” period had passed?
Just curious.