Thoughts on sex before marriage?

In My Humble Opinion
61

I hope my questions didn’t seem that way, (though knowing yosimitebabe as I do through the boards, I think she meant some of the previous remarks, not my brash curiosity, I hope :D).

I’m honestly curious, and not in a judgmental way. I adore sex, but I’d also like to find a man with whom to stay “forever”. It seems as if the two tend to be mutually exclusive in my experience.

That is, that if you have sex, you’re always the bridesmaid never the bride, but I’m also pretty fond of having good sex(read: not just “enjoyable” but “getting off” and getting off quite well, sorry so indelicate).

Does that mean that I couldn’t fall in love with someone who was awful in bed? No, actually I DID date someone like that for 5 years. Trouble is, that because of how awful he was in bed, I was perfectly happy to simply NOT have sex (or very little). Unfortunately, that doesn’t go over too well with men (generality warning).

So, I guess I’m trying to say, my questions are honest wishing for opinions from “the other side”.

I may very well “want to wait” if and when I ever get involved again after I move (am currently with someone, but he’s staying behind here in AK, it’s amicable, but will smart, long boring story…).

I’d like to know the “dirty details” sorry again to be so blunt. Do women who wait (and in particular those who WEREN’T virgins, but merely waited with their current husband), find that the sex is as fulfilling, orgasm-wise as if they’d “test driven” it before the marriage?

We’ve heard from at least one woman in this thread who said that, despite the fact that she didn’t regret waiting, the sex WAS horrible, and it did lead to the break-up (IIRC).

This isn’t too much of a hijack I hope :slight_smile:

62

Although we started having sex fairly early on in our relationship, I’ve only had one sexual partner, and he’d had sex exactly once before we started dating. It took about three times for it start working out quite well in the orgasm department, thanks. My more experienced friends, who were sleeping with more experienced men, were all insanely jealous that I was having orgasms left, right, and sideways while they’d never had one. (Fortunately, that’s changed for them in the last 8 years.)

Based on my own experience, I have to think that a) waiting would have worked out quite well for us if we’d been so inclined, and b) those who claim a pair of virgins can’t have a sexually satisfying relationship right off the bat are full of shit. We each already what aroused us, what felt good when we masturbated, and what sounded fun to us, before we ever started having naked together time. Those things haven’t changed in the last 8 years, so I have a hard time believing that we couldn’t have figured out the sexual compatibility thing by talking it out.

By contrast, my friends who, um, took a lot of test drives, had a lot of really bad sex that they didn’t enjoy. They tried a lot of stuff that didn’t sound all that great to them and they didn’t enjoy them. They also had occasional great sex with guys who treated them like shit and who slept with everything that didn’t have a penis.

AFAIK, though, they don’t have any regrets, or at least not many. And that’s fine. While it would sicken me and break my heart to think I’d shared something as important to me as my body with someone who had absolutely zero respect for me and our relationship, it’s not my body, my relationship, or my life, so there’s absolutely no reason for my values to apply their sex lives. It would kill them to have only had sex with one person in their whole life, but it’s not their body, their relationship, or their life, so there’s no reason for their values to apply to my sex life.

63

I don’t mean to be morbid but what if your girlfriend died tomorrow? If you feel that strongly about this person than why not express your love in the way that comes naturally to all humans?

No one can ever be sure of the future. A few people advised you to make sure you want to stay with this girl but how will you ever be a 100% sure? There’s always a risk however small in any relationship that it might not work out but if you used this as your yard-stick and wouldn’t have sex until you’re absolutely sure then you never will have sex.

I for one think it would be foolhardy not to have sex before you’re married. As someone said earlier, you wouldn’t marry someone without knowing where they stood on having children so why would you marry someone in total and wilful ignorance of their sexual needs?

On a lighter note - why ruin your wedding night? The first time is painful for the woman. You should try it a few times beforehand to get the hang of things.

:slight_smile:

64

I did not wait until marriage but I did wait for the ‘right guy.’ We had dated for a year before we had sex. We had some awkward times in the beginning but they were tempered by our love for eachother and our sense of humor. We’ve improved greatly since then and I have never wondered what anyone else would be like. We’ve been together 12 years now (married 7) and have our second kid on the way. Neither of us plans to give up sex any time soon although we will be on hiatus as I recover from having the baby.

Sex for me is wrapped up in a whole lot of other emotional stuff. I’m constantly amazed at how incredible sex with the hubby is when I had always considered anything sexual to be so ugly and painful.

Also with what Yosemitebabe said… people tend to view other’s decisions based on their own internal value system. Personally I don’t care who does what - I’m not the one having sex or not in other people’s relationships. I did suffer from this affliction in high school/college though. I’ve come to understand that while I cannot grasp the concept of casual sex or fuck buddies the people who do enjoy these things are not bad people. They just view sex differently than I do.

Also if people want to wait don’t assume nothing sexual at all is happening for them. Everyone’s version of virgin is a little different… some only touch the places not covered by a soccer outfit and others do everything but penetration with a penis. I also think you can learn quite a bit about one’s sexual wants/needs/ideas by simple conversation or exchanging reading materials. Their wedding night might be a little awkward but if they approach it right that won’t really matter as they will have a great time and wonderful memories. There is more to an enjoyable sexual experience than just the orgasm at the end.

65

I never called him pathetic and sad. The guy’s obviously not a 32 year old. Considering that the male’s sexual peak is in his teens, and after 30 men start losing testosterone, it would be sad to see a 30-something male virgin. And if he’s not a virgin by choice, it would be pathetic. Does that help clarify what I said?

Sex is a natural part of life. Marriage is not. Monogamy might be natural, though I tend to doubt it, but marriage is a legal/religious institution that has been created by modern man. (Modern, as in, within the last 50,000 years.) For 2 million years humans had sex outside of marriage, though I suppose they could have been monogamous.

So given that sex is a natural part of life, and probably one of the more potentially rewarding experiences of life, I do think it strange when people deny themselves it on moral grounds.

To me it just sounds like taking all nutrients intravenously until married, at which point you will start eating food. Why deprive yourself? Life is meant to be lived.

Genie - Uh, good for you? I’m not sure why you felt I was addressing you. But your rhetorical: “What if they started dating at 12?” makes me ill. 12? Please tell me you are kidding. I’m assuming these obviously responsible people are who they are because of their upbringing…as in, no heavy relationships allowed at FRIGGIN TWELVE! And 16 isn’t even all that young to begin exploring sexuality. And 31?! You may not find it sad, but I do. Isn’t sex a natural, healthy part of life? Why wait 20 years after nature made you physically ready? I know modern medicine keeps us around longer nowadays, but jiminy christmas, start living your life already. (editorial you)

I think guilt about sex is unhealthy. Let me have a teenage daughter and I’ll probably change my tune…regarding her. But if I have a virginal 31 year old child of either ender, I will think (but likely keep it to myself) that they missed out on a whole lot of life experience.

How can sex (or anything) be “natural” only within the confines of a human-created institution? The only answers I can see are that a) sex is not natural, or b) marriage was not created by humans. (I.e: marriage was created by God 4000 years ago just before he made Eve.)

Hmmm, that raises a question I never thought about before. Does any book of the Bible (doesn’t even have to have made the King James cut) say that Adam and Eve were married?

66

Why does everyone assume virgins are totally ignorant of what they want, need, and like sexually? You know, there’s this nifty thing out there now called masturbation, and it, combined with fantasy, greatly contributes to one’s self-awareness in this area.

In fact, I was probably a lot better informed about my sexual wants and needs by the time I was seventeen than any of my friends who were having sex. That, I think, played a major factor in my ability to skip straight to the good stuff, without the awkward couple of years mucking around not having orgasms that they all went through.

Even the first time, after a brief flash of pain, was lots of fun. I’m pretty sure I’d have had an orgasm that time, if it had lasted 30 seconds longer. The “fact” that the first time is always horrible for a woman is a lie.

67

It’s really sounding like there are a couple of different types of thinking going on here.

There are folks who’ve waited (for marriage, or for the one right partner) and folks who didn’t.

I didn’t wait. (I did wait till I was 21 though.) I made some mistakes along the way, but I don’t regret the way I lived my life.

To those of you who waited or are waiting, my hat’s off to you. Yours is not a point of view I understand, but it’s one I can respect.

68

Sex before marriage?
No.
I had 5 partners in my life, and the only one I enjoyed sex with was my husband.
No offense, but if someone loves you enough to have sex with them, they should love you enough to marry you.

69

I know this was likely aimed at everyone who expressed some disagreement with waiting, but for me, the answer is that I DON’T assume that. What I was wanting to know was HOW do they know?

I mean, men DO lie (no not all of them). So, if you’re talking to a potential mate and he’s saying something to the effect of “oh, yes, it’s very important to me that I bring pleasure (in the form of as many orgasms as possible) to the woman”. And/or “oh yes, I adore giving oral sex”.

But then you find out after that fact that all that was just said to “get her” and that he really wasn’t all that interested in the first place.

And what about all the things that you don’t even necessarily KNOW to ask about your partner (like the fact that my now exhusband made a REALLY strange and stupid sounding noise when he climaxed)?

Or what if your expectations of “matching parts” so to speak, just DON’T work out well in the final analysis?

I’m NOT arguing that my way is right. I’m hoping for honest input on how these problems, if they or others like them existed, WERE dealt with.

I’m curious because I’m considering this, IF I ever do date again (not sure, at this point, after having been with the best guy on the face of the planet for nearly 7 years, I think I’d just as soon go without than have someone not as good [yes in other ways than just sex] as he has been).

I’d appreciate, if the “wait before marriage” folks are so inclined, for a THOROUGH description of what they went through.

I’d also be interested in the “wait before marriage” folks take on if a person DOES discover that sex is pretty lousy in their relationship, but that they otherwise love the person, what they think about the person not enjoying it simply refusing to partake?

In my experience with this, it was within a 5 year relationship. No matter how much I talked with this guy, he simply wouldn’t change anything. So, if you’d talked with a person before marriage, and supposedly he liked all the things you did, but in reality he refused to carry through, what then?

70

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ellis Dee *
**Wait until marraige? I’m shocked this still happens. I guess I could fathom the concept for depression-era couples. Maybe even baby-boomers…wait, scratch that, baby boomers were in their teens in the sixties, not a virgin to be found there. But in today’s world? It just seems…no adjective suffices. I’m 32, and have never been married. Should I be a virgin? How sad and pathetic that would be.

Why would you want to wait? I can only guess…

<Rant Snipped>
**

[QUOTE]

And Marley23 was just saying how nobody was attacked for waiting.(not an attack on you, Marley23)

You’re getting your panties into quite a bunch about somebody else’s private life, aren’t you?

Some people are happy waiting. Others aren’t. You may not understand it, but it’s true.

71

Yeah, what HPL said, Ellis Dee.

How someone else’s sex life and personal choices about their sexuality affect you so much that you have to “rant” about it…well, that I don’t understand.

When I as pretty young, a friend and I were chatting with this other young lady, who, for some reason, admitted that she had her first sex after marriage. (I think she was asked about it by my friend, actually.)

My friend, who was quite “free” sexually, really wouldn’t believe it. “NO,” she kept on saying. "I don’t believe it—No! That’s not possible!"

The young woman claimed that yes, it was possible, and that she was telling the truth. My friend remained incredulous.

My friend reacted quite extremely to something that wasn’t really her business, I thought. She basically called this other woman a liar, and she continued to make comments about how it couldn’t possibly be true long after we left the conversation with the young woman. The young woman herself was quite polite and didn’t have any “attitude” about her choice; she just told the truth when the subject was introduced.

My friend, on the other hand, was the one that was mildly flipping out. Over what? Someone else’s lack of sexual experience before marriage.

I think it was quite obvious that my friend was the one with the real “problem” in this instance. And I’ve seen it many times since. And I think it is (not to put too fine a point on it) an intrusive and rude attitude.

72

Actually, CS, I was reacting to you’dneverguess’s comment about utter and willful ignorance about your sexual needs. Others have implied the same thing, that one cannot possibly know anything about what they like if they’ve never actually had sex. And on that ridiculous assumption, I have to call bullshit.

As for taking someone’s word for their preferences, well, that’s part of being in a relationship. You take someone’s word that they have no children living with someone else. You take someone’s word that they have a legitimate, legal job. You take someone’s word that they’re not dating other people. You take someone’s word that they’ve never engaged in anal sex with the entire lacross team in a single afternoon. Sometimes you just have to trust people to be honest with you, ya know?

Discussing sexual preferences ahead of time only works if you’re both honest, with yourselves and with each other. If you’re lying about what you like to get someone to marry or sleep with you, why wouldn’t you lie about other stuff? It’s the dishonesty that will kill such a relationship long before sexual incompatibility.

The stuff you don’t know to ask about, you work through the best you can, just like non-sex stuff that comes up. You know, like someone’s utter refusal to eat certain foods, or their utter inability to put the new roll of toilet paper on the spindle, or the fact that they pee on the toilet seat and then wipe it off, instead of just lifting the thing. I’m pretty sure it never occurred to anyone to ask about that sort of thing, you just deal with it the best you can.

If you’re both determined to find a way to work it out, you usually succeed. If one or both of you isn’t determined to find a way to work it out, that’s when you run into problems.

73

Bfft. :wink: I did more than enough of that and STILL sucked my first times out. The sex generally didn’t suck for me (I guess it usually doesn’t for the guy), I sucked. Knowing how to please yourself is one thing. Pleasing your partner is another. It’s just like sports: practice is great, but nothing compares to a game situation. :wink: (Can you tell football started tonight?)

Not to say that this isn’t a good point. It’s an extremely good one. I think more women would have much better sex lives if they knew more about how everything worked.

74

OH!! (lol).

Argh, yeah, I guess so. Maybe I’ll just be “happily” single. Not sure I’ve got that much trust left in the old ticker. :slight_smile:

True, with the relationship I had with the man who was terrible in bed we had NOT discussed sexual compatibility prior to our relationship.

I have found that generally men that are great kissers usually know their way around a woman’s body pretty well.

Did those of you who waited find that to be true also?

75

Truly I think this is your choice and you’ve gotten more than enough advice. My caution is a little different. Why is marriage out of the question? There really are people who are married and going to college. Marriage is a partnership that can be very flexible and beneficial to your life goals.

Is marriage out of the question because you or she feels this needs to be a huge, expensive, many thousands of dollars ordeal? I know nothing about you, but one thing I learned later as life went by is that once you really have made that commitment to the right person, the act of marriage doesn’t really need to be a major ceremony or derail your life. And pinning your hopes on a magic, fairy-tale day is not a good basis for the real work of a life-long marriage.

76

What’s wrong with practicing after marriage? My husband and I waited till we were married to actually have sex, but worked up to it by doing more and more as the wedding day approached. We both had a good idea of the other’s sexual needs/likes, timing, etc. You should be able to gauge that by whatever physical things you are doing, and by talking about it. We’re learning together, and the sex just keeps getting better.

Sex is only a part of a good relationship. If you and your girlfriend have compatible attitudes about sex, from what you’ve done already and what you’ve talked about, you can probably learn to have great sex, whether you’re married or not. In the grand scheme of things, having good sex on your wedding night is not that important to most people. Don’t throw your beliefs out a window for the sake of your wedding night. (I’m not saying that this is what you’d be doing – I’m just encouraging you not to do it for that reason. :slight_smile: )

77

Uh. that reminds me, baby–there’s something I’ve been meaning to talk to you about…

:slight_smile:

78

Nothing at all. (Although I’d imagine a bad session would take some of the magic away from that first night togther). I was responding to the comment I quoted from CrazyCatLady. Masturbation does indeed contribute to one’s sexual awareness, like she said, but before or after marriage, I don’t think masturbation would help when it comes to pleasing someone else.

79

Just a thought, but a lot of my trepidation regarding joining the “not until marriage” group is that I’d be going from a man who is the best lover on the planet to a complete unknown, (IF I decide to ever date again :)).

With virgins, since they don’t have anything to compare it to, if it was just “okay” wouldn’t it be as if they didn’t really know what they were missing?

(this is a QUESTION, not a statement meaning that I think that that IS how it is, I don’t, I’m just wondering).

80

I guess I’m one that you would call “free” sexually, but I have a friend that is the “wait until I find someone special and we’ve been together a year” type. She recently ended up having sex with a guy that she’s known a while, but there was no relationship there before the sex. She feels completely horrible about this, and I respect that. I don’t necessarily understand it, and I can’t relate. She says she can’t believe she “gave away” her virginity to someone she didn’t love. Well, I never had that feeling, and I believe sex should be fun and is a great thing as long as your careful. Oh, and she’s not religious, and she wasn’t brought up to be like that, in fact her parents never told her anything she should or shouldn’t do about waiting for sex.

Anyway, my point in all of this is that it’s not my business to be condescending to her for her choice, and it’s not her business to do the same to me. And we understand that very well and never have a problem in that regard.