So, any change of mind for the folk who thought there was no need in issuing a citation or other official penalties?
Will the entirely self-induced nature of this incident affect the expected media/public adulation re: any “heroic” recovery efforts?
No. They wouldn’t ticket anyone else in the same circumstance.
Most car accidents with injuries are self-inflicted. When the average person recovers from their injuries we don’t scold them for their carelessness.
These questions are only being asked because he’s black, he’s an athlete, he’s wealthy, he’s a recovering drug/sex addict or whatever other bias the critic has.
It was a 45 mph zone, before you started moving the goalposts. I don’t know what the laws and enforcement are like in California, but I pointed out upthread what happens here where we take highway safety seriously to anyone caught exceeding the speed limit by 40 mph. The seriousness of what he did is blatantly obvious in the fact that he could have killed numerous innocent people as well as himself.
I agree.
Maybe we should - or better than scolding, ensure that they are kept off the road.
I hope you intended to offend with that comment, because you sure did. My longstanding dislike for Tiger is because I consider him to be an asshole. So I’m biased against assholes?
That certainly explains the damage to the car and how far it traveled.
I went back to the start of the thread and tried to figure out exactly where Tiger was when he crashed. That’s when I realized I’ve been on that road, though only on that section a few times.
In general, around here, on a wide main thoroughfare like Hawthorne, with a speed limit of 45 mph, it’s likely that in light traffic, the faster cars are traveling at about 50 mph. It’s not unusual to see someone traveling 60, especially if cars are widely spaced and sparse. However, Downhill stretches tend to add 5-10 mph to everyone’s speed.
But 85 mph steady on that portion of Hawthorne would be really unusual and even the most leadfooted driver would be white knuckling it all the way.
I’ll be interested to see how long before the crash Woods was doing 80+. From the traffic camera video linked at the start of the thread, he wasn’t traveling at that speed going up the hill (only a few miles from the crash site). I can certainly see him gaining speed as the road starts back downhill (but not to 85 as a steady pace). The police said that he apparently hit the accelerator after he went out of control, possibly trying to brake but hitting the wrong pedal. Maybe he was gaining speed as he went along the downhill side and meant to brake, but pressed the accelerator, gaining that final 10-15 mph of speed and losing control?
I hadn’t looked at the traffic cam footage before, but after looking at it, I find it hard to believe that the driver of the car that was traveling at about the speed of the rest of the traffic reached the top of the hill, started down the hill and suddenly decided to accelerate to a speed (at least 25 mph faster than the rest of the traffic) that would make anyone nervous to say the very least.
Who is “they”, and in what jurisdiction, and what exactly are the “circumstances”? I’ve already indicated what happens in the jurisdiction where I live to anyone driving in this manner even if no accident is involved: impoundment, automatic license suspension, $10,000 fine. Yes, even if you’re not Black, not wealthy, and couldn’t hit a golf ball to save your life. Enforcing highway safety laws is not an act of hate or spitefulness.
That’s one of the most preposterous statements I’ve ever read.
There was no record of any braking so this is the current conjecture. If true, that suggests either an extraordinary level of incompetence or some kind of impairment, to the extent that he shouldn’t have been driving at all, let alone speeding recklessly. But this is just speculation. But the fact that he was driving dangerously is an established fact.
You seem to think there was something false or speculative about my comment (the one you quoted).
From the New York Times today:
The captain of the Lomita Sheriff’s Station, James Powers, said that data was obtained from the vehicle’s event data recorder, known colloquially as the black box. The data showed that Woods had hit the accelerator throughout the crash, and that the pressure applied to the pedal was 99 percent. Powers said he believed that Woods inadvertently hit the accelerator while trying to brake.
I believe that the bolded part above is all I claimed. Please point out where I made any factual claim beyond the fact that the police stated this fact.
Not at all. You seem to have somehow managed to completely misinterpret my meaning. I quoted you as a statement of fact that corroborates the same information I also read. No implication at all that there was anything “false or speculative” about it! What I’m saying is just simply that since there is no record of him ever trying to hit the brakes, it seems plausible that, as in your bolded statement, Woods may have inadvertently hit the accelerator instead.
As the officer also said, he “believes” that this is what happened, and so I correctly described that part as conjecture since we can’t know for sure exactly what happened beyond what’s on the data recorder. It had nothing to do with your quote which I completely agree accurately describes the facts.
It’s all conjecture at this point, isn’t it?
Since I know the region well and the road where it happened somewhat, I was interested in scenarios that might have led up to the accident.
If it was driving angry, in a hurry, just normally leadfooted, then he would probably have been traveling at excessive speeds for a while. But the traffic cam footage a few miles before the crash site doesn’t seem to support this. Even going uphill, he would have been noticeably faster than the other cars (only a couple, to be fair).
Did he gun it after he reached the top? Maybe, but why? There are several intersections with lights, and it is unlikely he hit them all just right, so he’s have to really stomp on the gas to be travelling between lights at high speeds. Again, did his mood suddenly change at the top of the hill?
I know about how steep the road is there and how easy it is to suddenly realize you’re traveling faster than you intend on the downhill slope. So I can see getting up to some level of speed along sections between lights just because of that. But I can’t see hitting 80+ through that inadvertent scenario. Distraction plus an unfamiliar vehicle, could it lead to gently pressing on the accelerator instead of the brake in an effort to slow down a little? Possibly, but certainly not a common occurrence.
That’s why I’d really like to know what the black box says about the vehicle prior to losing control. From the reports today, they could tell when he swerved across the median and off the road, so if they have more data, it could be attributed to prior to that.
And for those interested, in California, we are governed by California state and local laws, not other states or countries. We kind of prefer it that way and probably won’t change.
Woods was not cited, Villanueva said, because under California law that typically requires either an independent witness or a law enforcement officer to witness the excessive speed. He said that Woods did not receive any special treatment, and nobody would be cited for speeding in a solo vehicle collision without any witnesses.
No, it isn’t. The data in the event recorder is not conjectural.
So first you completely misinterpret my previous post as some kind of attempt to pick a fight with you, which it absolutely was not (your apology will be accepted if I ever see one) and now for some reason you’re engaging in unnecessary mocking snark.
I did not at any point suggest that Woods should be cited for speeding. The evidence in the data recorder is probably not considered reliable enough to be admissible for that purpose, plus the other technicalities you cite. And I mentioned other jurisdictions merely as an illustration of how extremely seriously this kind of reckless driving is typically regarded.
IANAL, and particularly not a lawyer in California, but I’m expressing my opinion that as a matter of justice and common-sense protection of public safety, Woods should be cited for some appropriately enforceable violation like dangerous driving, on the basis that he was obviously, you know, driving dangerously. That fact is supported by what’s left of the totally demolished car and his own broken legs, and the overwhelming preponderance of evidence that puts the blame squarely on the driver and not a vehicle fault or some other external factor outside his control. And if California law is such that he can, in fact, get off scot-free despite all this, then that law is seriously in need of reform.
I live in California, born and raised. 85 in a 45 is not normal.
This sounds about right.
I typically go ~78-80 on I-5 (posted speed limit = 70 mph) and I can usually just cruise in the slow lane, with only occasional passing. Slower than that and you’ll start accumulating tailgaters. When I was younger I’d push that to 85, but never higher as not only was it faster than I felt comfortable reacting in the wrecks I drove as a young man but also because I-5 is the CHP happy hunting ground and they go after those who stand out. These days I’m not in a rush (despite how mind-numbingly dreary I-5 is) and am mostly concerned with the flow of traffic.
The equivalent for Tiger Woods would be 110 mph on I-5 which should and would get shut down immediately if caught. In CA that would arguably be assessed as reckless driving, which is a misdemeanor offense.
The Equivalent would be closer to 125. Interstate highways are mandated to certain levels of straightness and elevation change for clear line of sight. Local boulevards of 45 have much lower levels of engineering, such as the downhill curvy road of the official description.
The reports state that “the pressure applied to the [accelerator] was 99%” and that the brakes were not applied.
Does anyone know exactly what that means? Was he pressing the accelerator 99% of the time that the car was moving, or was he mashing it 99% of the way to the floor?
I know we’ve discussed this ad nauseum, but I still smile every time I see references to the decision NOT to seek blood tests or cellphone records because there was no reason to believe they were involved (my paraphrasing). I’m no expert, but I’d suggest that the mere fact of a car going airborne is a pretty good indication that SOMETHING was going on and, absent mechanical failure or a reason to believe suicidal intent, some type of distraction would be reasonably likely. And substances and/or phone use are pretty much at the top of a short list of what I presume to be the most common distractions. I’d assume that absent some OTHER obvious cause, it would be pretty standard to rule out those two causes.
If I am recalling the pic of the crash site, it was a fairly sharp curve. A Ferrari much less an SUV might have issues staying on the road @ 80 in such a curve.
The pic in this link is not overly large, but it sure doesn’t look like a hairpin turn.
Apparently the road has many hills and curves, but that looks like the kind of curve one takes almost unconsciously, rather than requiring a significant lessening of sped, changing hand positions on the wheel, etc.
I’ve driven that road, and there are spots (maybe only one spot) that you need to be careful and slow waaaaaaaay down. I think Tiger thought he could do it at top speed the whole way and just lost it. There really wouldn’t need to be drug or cell phone usage involved for this accident to occur.
That only explains how he went off the road, not what caused his poor judgment and inability to gauge road/speed conditions.