[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
This part of your story rubs me the wrong way, as a guy. You say that the mere fact that this guy was out on the street late at night indicates that he was probably up to no good. Well, so were you. I guess you must be a suspicious character, too, right? I don’t know how you can assume that this guy didn’t have some legitimate business to do, just like you did. Even if he just felt like taking a walk at night, that might be a little weird, but it’s not nefarious.
Now, once you progress to the part where he’s offering you pot and making creepy advances, I’m on the same page. (And I don’t doubt that he creeped you out even though the actual conversation seems innocent enough-- body language is everything.) But before that-- other than the fact that he was a man and you were a woman, why was there any reason to assume that his intentions were any less reputable than your own?
[/QUOTE]
Well, for one thing, it’s legal to do your laundry. Whether it should be or not, it isn’t legal to smoke pot. Alls I’m sayin’.
Also, she was doing something, he was loitering at a bus stop that didn’t have any buses running.
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
This part of your story rubs me the wrong way, as a guy. You say that the mere fact that this guy was out on the street late at night indicates that he was probably up to no good. Well, so were you. I guess you must be a suspicious character, too, right? I don’t know how you can assume that this guy didn’t have some legitimate business to do, just like you did. Even if he just felt like taking a walk at night, that might be a little weird, but it’s not nefarious.
Now, once you progress to the part where he’s offering you pot and making creepy advances, I’m on the same page. (And I don’t doubt that he creeped you out even though the actual conversation seems innocent enough-- body language is everything.) But before that-- other than the fact that he was a man and you were a woman, why was there any reason to assume that his intentions were any less reputable than your own?
[/QUOTE]
He did not approach RedRoses in a bar, a restaurant, or a club. Or in a city park on a sunny afternoon. He had no apparent reason to be in a laundromat. He was hanging out in a laundromat, with no laundry.If he had legitimate business to do, one would assume he would have some detergent, a basket, or oh, I don’t know- some laundry.
He was wandering the streets smoking the occasional hit of wacky baccy - and plenty of Dopers would not harp on about the illegality of the giggle weed under other circumstances. It’s not against the law to wander the streets as far as I know. The bus stop was a place to sit down. The laundromat was warm and lit with someone else there. Still don’t see the problem, other than He Was A Man, Therefore Scary. (ETA - And the OP has stated she’d have been no happier were it a public park at 3pm either.)
[QUOTE=Beaucarnea]
He did not approach RedRoses in a bar, a restaurant, or a club. Or in a city park on a sunny afternoon. He had no apparent reason to be in a laundromat. He was hanging out in a laundromat, with no laundry.If he had legitimate business to do, one would assume he would have some detergent, a basket, or oh, I don’t know- some laundry.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree. But RedRoses has repeatedly stated that she felt threatened by this guy as soon as she saw him outside on the street-- before she knew he was smoking pot, before he started loitering in front of the laundromat, before he approached her or tried to speak with her. In other words, all he was “guilty of” at that point was being out of his house at night, which the OP was also. Why did that make him suspicious? Are guys just supposed to stay home at night, while women are free to go to the laundromat or whatever else?
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
Yes, I agree. But RedRoses has repeatedly stated that she felt threatened by this guy as soon as she saw him outside on the street-- before she knew he was smoking pot, before he started loitering in front of the laundromat, before he approached her or tried to speak with her. In other words, all he was “guilty of” at that point was being out of his house at night, which the OP was also. Why did that make him suspicious? Are guys just supposed to stay home at night, while women are free to go to the laundromat or whatever else?
[/QUOTE]
Her original instinct proved to be correct. **Red ** already knew the buses had stopped running for the day. He smoked pot in a public place, which shows a blatant disregard for rules and laws. He sat beside her in an otherwise empty laundromat with no laundry.
No, guys are not supposed to stay home at night, and I can’t find anywhere in this thread where anyone made such a statement. But if a guy wants to hang out and initiate unwanted conversation with a lone woman in the laundromat after midnight, the addition of some laundry and the absence of public pot smoking would lessen the creepy factor by 100%.
If your wife, your mother, or your sister told you the same story, would you be so defensive?
And, as might be expected, it wasn’t a cut and dried case. He was having sex with a family friend with, apparently, the consent of his wife.
[/QUOTE]
And in this case, the rapist wasn’t deaf, which is what Cryptojerk claimed in post 97. Huge difference there.
Actually, though, I think I can maybe sort of get what Cryptoderk is basing some of his ludicrous claims on - a man who date rapes his girlfriend or wife, or a person who kills their spouse, is less of a danger to the population as a whole than a rapist or murderer of strangers. While he may be right about that, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the severity of the crime or the punishment which should be imposed for such a crime.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
To go back to the original topic, while I realize you were scared, and am sorry about that,I don’t know that this guy really did anything wrong. From your account, the guy asked you for a match and chatted you up. You didn’t indicate that he said or did anything threatening, or obscene, or did anything specifically to suggest you were in any danger.
I’m sorry you were scared, but I don’t know that pitting the guy is appropriate.
[/QUOTE]
So what you’re saying is that you personally, with a fair amount of regularity, find yourself:
[ul]
[li]Wandering into late night businesses known for their poor supervision[/li][li]If the only other person who is there is a lone woman going about her personal affairs, offering to engage in petty crime with her[/li][li]After getting an unwelcoming vibe from her, continuing to loiter in the general area while you engage in your petty crime[/li][li]Continuing to try to chat her up despite obvious rebuffs, and remaining on hand until she leaves nervously[/li][/ul]
If you can think of a single reason why this would not be a normal course of action for you personally, then you really do not have as much of an issue with RedRosesForMe’s assessment as you say, now do you?
Dangit, now I’m starting to feel bad for the guy. I’ve walked around late at night, sat on bus benches when the buses weren’t running, and even walked into businesses where I didn’t have an immediate need for their services.
I say let’s call it even. RedRoses did nothing wrong and the nightowl guy did nothing wrong.
My god, the assholes are just climbing out of woodwork here. Way too many ridiculous justifications of said creepy guy to even begin to assail them one by one. Let my just say in general Autumn Almanac and Malacandra, you are both acting as if the mere act of RedRosesForMe feeling creeped out was some kind of unfair attack on this random dude. I can’t imagine why, unless that is some kind of extrapolation onto your manhood. Do you believe that if we judge this random dude a creep than than mean you are creeps as well? In all likelihood that is the case.
As a sometimes skeevy looking dude myself, I’ve set off people’s creepdar on occasion. Hell I set off Chole’s like ten minutes ago. It’s quite easy for me to forget how unsettling my hulking presence can be. And if I do forget and I end up creeping someone out by my presence and actions, then I am the asshole, regardless of my actual harmlessness or “noble” intentions.
So RedRosesForMe saw the dude on the street and it set off her creepdar. So what? She didn’t call the cops, or blow her whistle, or hit him with a stick, or mace him, or scream and run away. She just noted her creep feeling and maybe acted a little vigilant. Doesn’t mean he was a bad guy, doesn’t mean you are bad guys, unless you are.
Once he sat on the bench, bothered her for a light, and hung around he was acting in a predatory manner. He acted like a creepy asshole. It has nothing to do his “rights” to be anywhere, or some kind of double standard. His choice to stake out an isolated woman make him the asshole, just like your choice to blindly defend his actions makes you the asshole.
I’m sure I’ll find more way to articulate the asinine bullshit that’s pissing me off later.
[QUOTE=parthenokinesis]
.Once he sat on the bench, bothered her for a light, and hung around he was acting in a predatory manner. He acted like a creepy asshole.
[/QUOTE]
As noted upthread, I’m a big (non-tough) guy who looks tough. Anyone who chooses to sit down directly beside me in an otherwise abandoned space better have a good fucking explanation. And yes, Jessica Alba look-alikes are included. That is an unacceptable violation of personal space.
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
Yes, I agree. But RedRoses has repeatedly stated that she felt threatened by this guy as soon as she saw him outside on the street-- before she knew he was smoking pot, before he started loitering in front of the laundromat, before he approached her or tried to speak with her. In other words, all he was “guilty of” at that point was being out of his house at night, which the OP was also. Why did that make him suspicious?
[/QUOTE]
I think it’s important to remember that we are getting the story after the fact. He might not really have seemed all that creepy at first, but after the creep-quotient rose, the OP’s memories changed a little so that he became “always creepy.”
[QUOTE=parthenokinesis]
My god, the assholes are just climbing out of woodwork here. Way too many ridiculous justifications of said creepy guy to even begin to assail them one by one. Let my just say in general Autumn Almanac and Malacandra, you are both acting as if the mere act of RedRosesForMe feeling creeped out was some kind of unfair attack on this random dude. I can’t imagine why,
[/QUOTE]
And I’ll stop right there. Any failure of imagination on your part is not something that I need to address. :rolleyes:
Believe it or not, I don’t have any particular axe to grind for skeevy-looking loners hanging around in the street at midnight. But yeah, as far as unfair attacks go, I think “I felt creeped out, therefore how dare he have been there!” is pretty high on the scale.
[QUOTE=Beaucarnea]
Her original instinct proved to be correct. **Red ** already knew the buses had stopped running for the day. He smoked pot in a public place, which shows a blatant disregard for rules and laws. He sat beside her in an otherwise empty laundromat with no laundry.
No, guys are not supposed to stay home at night, and I can’t find anywhere in this thread where anyone made such a statement. But if a guy wants to hang out and initiate unwanted conversation with a lone woman in the laundromat after midnight, the addition of some laundry and the absence of public pot smoking would lessen the creepy factor by 100%.
[/QUOTE]
Look, I think I’ve made this pretty plain in my last two posts, but I’ll say it once more: I fully agree that this guy’s behavior was creepy. There is only one thing about this pitting that I take issue with: RedRoses had already decided that this guy was dangerous, before any of the creepy behavior took place, solely because he was on the street at night and he was a man. I’m not reading between the lines; she explicitly stated it at least twice. I think that part, and only that part, of the pitting is unreasonable.
[QUOTE=RedRosesForMe]
What strikes me as a “bad” neighborhood or “risky” situation obviously differs from others.
[/QUOTE]
The important thing is that you now adjust your strike zone. Whatever you may think of a neighborhood, subtract points for “laundromat”. And more points for “midnight”. Even more for “alone”. All your reasons why it shouldn’t have happened won’t help the next time you ignore the lesson you should have learned.
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
Look, I think I’ve made this pretty plain in my last two posts, but I’ll say it once more: I fully agree that this guy’s behavior was creepy. There is only one thing about this pitting that I take issue with: RedRoses had already decided that this guy was dangerous, before any of the creepy behavior took place, solely because he was on the street at night and he was a man. I’m not reading between the lines; she explicitly stated it at least twice. I think that part, and only that part, of the pitting is unreasonable.
[/QUOTE]
He probably looked creepy to start with. Is it unfair to naturally creepy looking guys? Maybe so, but, you know, some people just look creepy. From where I sit here at my desk in the public library I can see six or seven seriously creepy looking dudes. Sorry, man, but I call 'em like I see 'em.
[QUOTE=Zsofia]
He probably looked creepy to start with. Is it unfair to naturally creepy looking guys? Maybe so, but, you know, some people just look creepy. From where I sit here at my desk in the public library I can see six or seven seriously creepy looking dudes. Sorry, man, but I call 'em like I see 'em.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough! I don’t begrudge anyone the right to decide who they feel comfortable interacting with, based on whatever criteria they care to use. Doesn’t matter whether that’s “fair” to a particular person-- it’s your call and your call only. I only object to the assertion that there’s something inherently, objectively threatening about a man being outdoors at night.
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac]
I only object to the assertion that there’s something inherently, objectively threatening about a man being outdoors at night.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I do think that location was a factor. If there had been other open establishments, or if the man had been striding purposfully to some unknown destination I think it would have decreased the creepy factor by 10. If I see some dude out walking his dog, or getting some fresh air or whatever - non-creepy. I think the fact that the guy seemed aimless, had no laundry and then started loitering around when he saw RedRoses boosted the creep-o factor.
[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
So what you’re saying is that you personally, with a fair amount of regularity, find yourself:
[ul]
[li]Wandering into late night businesses known for their poor supervision[/li][li]If the only other person who is there is a lone woman going about her personal affairs, offering to engage in petty crime with her[/li][li]After getting an unwelcoming vibe from her, continuing to loiter in the general area while you engage in your petty crime[/li][li]Continuing to try to chat her up despite obvious rebuffs, and remaining on hand until she leaves nervously[/li][/ul]
If you can think of a single reason why this would not be a normal course of action for you personally, then you really do not have as much of an issue with RedRosesForMe’s assessment as you say, now do you?
[/QUOTE]
No, I don’t believe I said any of that. And, I never said that I had an issue with her assessment. If she wants to be creeped out by his behavior, that’s her business. I just said that the person she’s pitting didn’t actually do anything wrong (except the marajuana smoking, I guess).
He just tried to talk to her, and I don’t understand why, if she didn’t want to talk to him, she didn’t just say so, and ask him to leave her alone, instead of giving off some sort of “unwelcoming vibe”.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
No, I don’t believe I said any of that. And, I never said that I had an issue with her assessment. If she wants to be creeped out by his behavior, that’s her business. I just said that the person she’s pitting didn’t actually do anything wrong (except the marajuana smoking, I guess).
He just tried to talk to her, and I don’t understand why, if she didn’t want to talk to him, she didn’t just say so, and ask him to leave her alone, instead of giving off some sort of “unwelcoming vibe”.
[/QUOTE]
Experience? The couple times I’ve been in a position where a man I didn’t know was making me uncomfortable and trying to strike up an unwanted conversation with me, when I said outright that I didn’t want to talk, they immediately got defensive, nasty, and escalated the situation into something that seemed dangerous instead of annoying. Obviously, most men wouldn’t behave this way. But most men wouldn’t approach a strange woman in a lonely place, sit right next to her, and try to “get to know her.” Most men would know that that would make most women a little uncomfortable and they’d have consideration for that.
I don’t begrudge anyone the right to decide who they feel comfortable interacting with, based on whatever criteria they care to use. Doesn’t matter whether that’s “fair” to a particular person-- it’s your call and your call only. I only object to the assertion that there’s something inherently, objectively threatening about a man being outdoors at night.