Isn’t that a foursome? Or does Kidman not count because you have to look twice to see her once?
It would be nice if people’s personal lives stayed personal (which includes not being paid for publishing your wedding pics), and it would be nice if people could be who they are - you know, not have to remember which hobbies is it ok to claim at a job interview (don’t claim internet or they will assume you’re some kind of asocial psycho; don’t say you play in a group or the next question will be about drugs), be able to wear whatever clothes you are comfortable in, nobody trying to get you to like what you simply don’t like, etc. This applies to everybody, not just famous people.
Haven’t you heard? Turns out I’m really Rick Santorum.
Nope. He’s too broad-minded.
Wow. For someone relatively new with all of three posts, you’re remarkably well versed with Miller’s views.
Oh, wait! Long time lurker, first time poster, right? :rolleyes:
You’re killing me with these one liners Maureen. Ought to be on Leno with some of that A-list material.
It’s always good to have a fan.
Seriously, don’t you have a shoe somewhere to be in?
Yeah. Problem is it’s parked on top of your house.
Yeah, cause DAMN, it’s HOT!!
Why are you giving me that look?
I’m pretty sure you meant under it, right?
No that’ll be the mud, dear.
sigh…
Is that really the best you can do, Bru…little sock? How disappointing.
Okay, Miller. I’m done playing with this one, you can have it back. It doesn’t know how to fling poo properly.
Yeah. I know trying to think up more stuff must take it’s toll on you. Off you go.
Okay, up 'til now I’d assumed that my posts about Tom Cruise had been received with the amount of seriousness the topic deserved (specifically: none) but it seems that MadderMitch has gone and gotten genuinely peeved with me, but is being so oblique about it that I have no idea exactly why.
I’d be more than happy to hash the whole thing out civilly, but first I need to know precisely what your beef with me is, Mitch. If you really think I’m a homophobe, I can cheerfully disabuse you of that notion. If you won’t take my word for it, there are any number of posters who, I am sure, would back me up. Including my boyfriend. If you’ve got some other issue with me (maybe you’re a die-hard Tom Cruise fan?) please share, as your recent posts have left me confused, and somewhat lightheaded.
[wail]NO one tells me ANYTHING![/wail]
Well, I am so glad to have this opportunity to say a few things to you. Unfortunately, I don’t suppose this thread is the place to say them, so just let me say…
I don’t think I like you.
And you don’t look anything like Miller, either. You wearing a mask of something?
:smack: Mask OR something, not mask OF something. Although come to think of it, maybe mask OF something works better. 
If Tom Cruise is gay, that’s fine with me. What I suspect, and don’t like, is the possibility that people like Cruise and Travolta came to LA/Hollwood as young wannabes, and that the "Church"of Scientology took advantage of their desperation, and gave them that bogus “e-meter” thing that led to some kind of statement that could be interpreted as “homosexual.” It got into the Scientology files, and in effect, is an ongoing form of extortion. If Cruise and Travolta and et. al. are in fact gay, and they took a stand, the feds could take down Scientology for good under the RICO laws.
I never really paid much attention to such people, until there was a thread about Cruise being squirted with water by a microphone in London. Then I researched and saw the Oprah clip, where he is jumping up and down on a sofa to show how much in love he is. I know love. You don’t need to jump up and down on a sofa, let alone on national TV, to show it.
I suspect that this is all a way for the the “Church” of Scientology to make itself legititmate, with the "Celebrity Center"at Franklin and Bronson. When you’re making big bucks, paying off a few to scams like Scientology is worth it to keep your “possible” homosexuality secret.
Hopefully, being homosexual, or bi-sexual, will not be so stigmatized, and obvious scams like the "Church"of Scientology will no longer get support from celebritiies.
I think my playfully (over)aggressive style has given you the wrong impression. I’m not angry with you, but I do take a little objection to what you wrote.
It’s called bully logic. Now I know you’ve heard this one:
BULLY: Hey punk, you lookin’ at my girlfriend?
NORMAL DUDE: No… no way man. I’m not.
BULLY: Wha’s a matter? You sayin’ she’s ugly?
There’s just no way of winning with this. No matter what NORMAL DUDE says, BULLY will just find a way of using it against him.
In this scenario with Mr. Cruise I feel like you’re doing the same (hear me out now).
Earlier on, you wrote:
Which I think is unfair. You could equally well portray this in a conversation between you and myself:
MILLER: Hey dude, how come you don’t ask Michelle out to the dance Saturday night?
MITCH: Oh, you know… she’s not really my type.
MILLER: Yeah but you turned down Sarah too. And Sarah… well, she’s quite a looker.
MITCH: Yeah… well, I don’t think she’s really my type either. Besides, I like to take things kind of slow.
MILLER: No, c’mon dude… I think there’s a little something else going on here ain’t there?
MITCH: Whadya mean?
MILLER: Dude c’mon, don’t tell me you weren’t makin’ eyes at Steve
MITCH: WHA—?
MILLER: Oh comoffit… you know. I seen the way you look at him.
MITCH: {Laughs} I think you’re wayyyyy off on this one.
MILLER: Oh c’mon. You know you are. Just admit it.
MITCH: Admit what?
MILLER: You know… that you’re gay.
MITCH: {Laughing} What are ya nuts? I’m NOT gay…
MILLER: Oh sure you are. Just admit it.
MITCH: {Again laughs} Yeah whatever man, I’m gay okay?
MILLER: Hey don’t be trying to pretend you’re not now!
MITCH: Yeah, okay. Fine. I’m gay {laughs a little less}
MILLER: Coz I know you are.
MITCH: Whatever {laughing it off}
MILLER: Don’t be trying to act cool about it neither.
MITCH: Oh yeah, why not?
MILLER: Coz I’m gonna tell everybody 'bout it
MITCH: {Laughs} Go ahead.
MILLER: Gus, Vincent, Sarah, Ralph…
MITCH: Buddy, tell everyone you like…
MILLER: Even Sophie
MITCH: No waittaminute, a joke’s a joke but you know I like her… c’mon
MILLER: Oh don’t even try and give me that, you know you’re gay and you just don’t wanna admit it. You’re embarrassed. Now you’re trying to cover up by makin’ like you want Sophie! Don’t think I don’t know!!!
MITCH: Hey c’mon not Sophie, enough is enough. I get it. Look I’m just not the kind of guy who’s gonna constantly act like he wants a piece of ass to prove something…
MILLER: Yeah, a gay guy!!! {Chuckles}
MITCH: Look I’m NOT freakin’ gay!!!
MILLER: I’m gonna tell them about you and Steve {chuckles}
MITCH: What about me and Steve?
MILLER: You know, what you guys got up to at the party last night?
MITCH: What the heck are you talking about? You were with me the whole time!
MILLER: Was I? I distinctly remember going to the bathroom and hurlin’ up
MITCH: That was for five minutes!!!
MILLER: Seems to me like it was longer. Seems to me like it was more like thirty… or half and hour - maybe longer…
MITCH: No now c’mon. Now you’re just makin stuff up.
MILLER: Am I? I don’t remember it like that {chuckles}. Tell you what though, boys at the office gonna have a right peach when they find out.
MITCH: Find what out?
MILLER: That you’re gay, stupid. What else?
MITCH: Look man, a jokes a joke. But now you’re taking this too far. What’s up with you tonight?
MILLER: Nothing bro {smiles knowingly}. Nothing at all. What’s up with you might I ask?
MITCH: Man you’re acting wierd tonight, screw you
MILLER: Hey I wouldn’t go there. Even if you wanted me too.
MITCH: {Laughs loud} Hey man, even if I was gay, I wouldn’t sink as low as you
MILLER: Ahhhhhhhhh! So you admit it! You are gay? Why didn’t you say so?
MITCH: {Annoyed} Coz I’m not.
MILLER: No c’mon - I’d say that was an admission of guilt
MITCH: Oh shut up!
MILLER: Admit it, it’s true! You’re getting pissed just at the idea of me saying it, aren’t you? It’s true!
MITCH: Look let’s just drop it. Wanna get a bite to eat somewhere?
MILLER: No frickin way dude. Not until you admit that you’re a gay.
MITCH: {Angered, annoyed} I AM NOT A FRICKIN’ GAY!!!
MILLER: Whoa! Dude, why you getting so pissed about it man?
MITCH: I’m not pissed about it, you’re just continually going on and on.
MILLER: Hey man, what’s wrong with being gay?
MITCH: What?
MILLER: You heard me. There’s like, nothing wrong with it you know. I mean just coz you’re gay doesn’t mean you’re not human.
MITCH: WHAT!!! Look I’m not saying anything’s wrong with being gay, I just—
MILLER: Then why you denying it?
MITCH: COZ I’M NOT GAY!!!
MILLER: No but you’re like so uppity about it. It’s like you think there’s something wrong with being gay. Like you’re a… I don’t know - homophobe.
MITCH: WTF!!! First you call me a gay!!! Now I’m a homophobe???
MILLER: Well why else are you getting so angry and upset about it? Jeez all I’m saying is that it’s obvious that you’re gay. And you’re getting all in a huff about it!!! Jeez just admit it and move on with your life!!!
MITCH: {Dazed and confused} Look I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being a gay. I don’t personally object to it one way or another. Whatever anybody else does is their business - but I AM NOT GAY!!! And yeah, I don’t want you to go around making up shit that I went with this guy and did this stuff-
MILLER: Coz you think there’s something wrong with it, don’t you?
MITCH: No it’s just that-
MILLER: No c’mon. You must think there’s something wrong with gays if you object so strongly to being one yourself
MITCH: {Shouts loud} I’m NOT GAY!!!
MILLER: See!!! There you go again, it’s like you’re this wierd closet homophobe, as well as closet gay…
MITCH: {Dumbfounded and confused, has no answer, drained} No look, I’m just trying to say that I’m not gay. If I don’t chase girls around like a wolf, that’s my business! It just means that’s the way I am. There’s nothing else there. What’s wrong with it?
MILLER: What’s wrong with being gay?
MITCH: Nothing, BUT I’M NOT GAY!!!
MILLER: HOMOPHOBE…
And so on. Now I know. You’ve read Arthur Siegel scripts that were better than this. But the only way I can think of to try to illustrate my point is in using a (rather) lengthy dialogue.
See it’s difficult in this type of situation to have a fixed response. It’s easy to say “laugh it off”, but much more difficult in practice when it drags on day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day after day…
presumably the joke runs thin. But, let’s even say you take it with the good humour it deserves. After a while, people begin to make certain distinctions about you. It’s not thier fault but it’s not really yours either. The girl at the checkout you’ve been dying to ask out is suddenly luke-warm to you. It’s not that she’s even being cold, and she certainly doesn’t hate you, but she thinks you’ve got no interest in her. Now you have to go over there and explain that the story(ies) really isn’t true, and you’re not gay. Immediately you’ve had to go out of your way to clear something up. Something that’s based on a completely false premise anyway.
Why should you have to do this? Why is it necessary for you to “validate” this part of your personality, when realistically it wasn’t true in the first place?
And then there’s the triple hit. What is so wrong with being gay that you now vehemently deny it so much? Go on, tell me. There must be something wrong with it if you soooooooooooo categorically deny it. And now you’re accused of being a homophobe.
What does this have to do with my teasing set of first posts? Clearly they’re not meant to be taken literally. But I’m using the same set of bully logic rules, namely to accuse you of something (and at this point T. Cruise’s sexuality seems to be used as an accusation as opposed to speculation) you are not until you fire something back at me. Then I use this as the basis of another false argument. It doesn’t really matter whether it follows or not, the real object of the game is to corner you.
A lot of people don’t like Tom Cruise. Hell I think the guy’s an ass myself. What he did to B.Shields was scandalous IMO. However, there are plenty of negative aspects of his charachter that we can focus on, without having to use his sexuality (or asexuality) as a tool against him.
I’m a pretty aggressive guy when it comes to women. I go after what I like, and the hell with all the rest. I don’t think anyone who knows me would say I’m a gay. However just coz Steve is a little more reserved or aloof than me, doesn’t mean that he is positively gay. Nor that just because he denies it (even with some passion), that he’s a homophobe.
If I were accused of being gay, I’d first joke around with it. Eventually after enough false impressions, I’d probably get tired of it. But if I got continually taunted about it, after a while it’d probably get on my nerves. I may even start to deny it. And it’s a short step to have some dude who then turns around and says “You’re a homophobe”.
But that would strike me as odd. I don’t think there is anything morally wrong
between two men getting together (yes yes I know and the women too). I may not want to watch the proceedings, but that’s more a matter of aesthetic than prejudice. I certainly DON’T think it’s any of my business telling other people how to conduct thier lives. And everything else that follows from that (including gay marriage, adoption laws, etc.)
But at some point you could always say, “you think that there’s something wrong with being a gay - cause you KEEP on denying it, and by doing so you’re saying that it’s somehow wrong, or there’s something funny with it. Otherwise why make a big deal out of it?”
And at this point you got me. Coz there’s nothing I can really respond to that. At some fundamental level you’re just gonna have to take my word for it that I see nothing wrong with you being in a (hopefully) loving relationship with another man, but that I DO object to being categorized as a homosexual all the same. It’s a wierd one, I know, but that’s as far as I can go.
Although I’d like to treat that as a moot point, I don’t think it is. Cause there is a lot of this mystic undercurrent that passes us by when we address issues of homosexuality/heterosexuality. It seems like discussion isn’t ever frank - or open - and it’s easy to hurl accusations at people and then hide behind a coat of political correctness when it’s time to debate.
And I feel at least, this is what is happening all over again when you write what you wrote in your post. It’s not that you’ve pissed me off or anything, but that I think that type of attitude undermines some serious (relevant) discussion.
Beyond that, there’s a lighter note. Like I said before, I can totally understand people not liking Cruise. And this post sounds a little holier-than-thou - and if you know me that’s pretty much the last thing I am. So please don’t think I’m trying to lecture you - the missus would slap me long and hard (and not even in a good way) if I attempted to preach to anyone.
So when you’re sitting at the back of the bar, guzzling your Brewski and cracking off a long list of tasteless one-liners about a certain Mr. Tom Cruise, be sure to save a seat for me.
But bear in mind though, that’s all they are - tasteless jokes. You want to call him a gay, call him a gay. You’ll bring the house down. You don’t have to justify it later though, which is what I felt you were doing. You made a joke, pulled a few laughs, but then attempted to cover for it later.
And I object strongly on your justifications for saying it.
Anyway, hope that clears some things up.
So, MadderMitch, what you’re saying is that you’re gay, right?
Okay, Rubystreak, here’s a REAL homophobic statement for you…just in case you need an example for your friend’s message board. I can’t even begin to adequately approximate the accent…although I’ll try. But here is what I just heard on A&E’s Investigative Reports. A gentleman was found bound, naked (and dead) in a motel room. After an obvious struggle.
“Wayull, ya faahn a nekkid man in a motail room taahd up an’ beat, and ya jess’ gottassume twas a homasaikshull killin’.”
No offense intended to anyone from the south, with the exception of the insect I just heard make the statement. :mad: I have many friends in the south, and none of them talk like that, nor would any of them ever EVER make that kind of stupid statement.
I tell ya, they get all the best outfits.