Search “The Second Stone” and “idiot”. I have from the first week I was here readily admitted being an idiot. So pay attention.
What I don’t admit is being wrong on this subject. My opinion on it doesn’t matter. The definition of genocide accepted by the UN matters. The facts matter, and evaluating the facts and the witnesses in a way that does not tip the scale in favor of a party I agree with, or against one I disagree with.
A certain poster said, and I paraphrase, “as a mod I am interested in order, not justice.” I couldn’t disagree more. That is a fairly vile thing for an educated person to say or do. In the opinion of this admitted idiot and asshole. An interest and thirst for justice are of exceeding importance to me. Fair treatment and humanity towards all people, but especially “the least of these” is what a good life is about.
Being an asshole is nothing to take pride in. I can’t think of any belief that can’t be expressed just as well without being an asshole about it.
I can’t accept your comparison of the current Gaza-Israeli War to the Holocaust. It’s just too vast a difference in scale. The highest reports are saying about 2200 people (mostly Palestinians) have been killed - that doesn’t approach the approximately twelve million people who were killed in the Holocaust.
It trivializes genuine genocide to put it on this level. If you say the Gaza-Israeli War is as bad as the Holocaust then you’re also saying the Holocaust is no worse than the Gaza-Israeli War. Which means you’re taking the Holocaust and reducing it to the level of a minor skirmish: the Holocaust and the Battle of Vicksburg were two historical events where some people were killed. You’re turning genocide into a routine event that’s happened hundreds of thousands of times.
(bolding mine) The Second Stone, I know participating in a discussion isn’t as much fun as sanctimonious masturbation, but just for a change of pace how about you answer these highly-relevant questions?
You can follow it afterward with a massive cut and paste and some hyperbole to cleanse your palate, if you need.
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
If you say the Gaza-Israeli War is as bad as the Holocaust then you’re also saying the Holocaust is no worse than the Gaza-Israeli War. Which means you’re taking the Holocaust and reducing it to the level of a minor skirmish: the Holocaust and the Battle of Vicksburg were two historical events where some people were killed.
[/QUOTE] Civilians in Vicksburg were driven into cave shelters by Union shelling of the town:
*"The children became weary of the daily monotony which was occasionally broken only by death and disaster. One young girl while running back to her house was struck in her side by a shell fragment. She died as she ran into her mother’s arms, her blood pouring out of her wound, coloring her light summer dress. A little boy playing outside his family’s cave was struck by a shell fragment and suffered a broken arm. A servant boy found and played with an unexploded shell. It exploded, killing him instantly. A black girl going to purchase milk lost her arm when struck by a shell.
Willie Lord wrote, “When we think of this iron hail, estimated at 60,000 shells every twenty-four hours, descending upon the town by night and by day, the mortality among the citizens, even considering the protection of the caves, was wonderfully small. But while comparatively few non-combatants were killed, all lived in a state of terror.”
By most accounts fewer than fifty civilians were known to have been wounded during the bombardment, with about a dozen of them killed or mortally wounded. But still that constant shelling and its ever-present terror were every bit as devastating to these children and their families, as they endured, day after day."*
So there you go. The Hamas shelling of Israel, the Israeli shelling/invasion of Gaza, the battle of Vicksburg - all genocide. You can’t deny it.
Of course, not. You just use the words in the definitions in ways that you invent so that your definitions do not have the same meaning as the one used by everyone else in the world. You don’t invent definitions; you murder them. You don’t invent facts; you simply use the lies that others have invented for you. You do not appear to have the intelligence or integrity to actually invent anything.
I am just awed by this sentence. The sheer stupidity of it, the open misuse of language, the utter indifference to facts. Really, just a wonder to behold. Do you do this outside of this board? Does a minor rainstorm become a hurricane? A dusting of snow a blizzard? Do you get a paper cut and compare it to losing a finger? If someone accidentally bumps into you, do you accuse them of murder?
You have vastly understated the number of people killed in the Gaza-Israeli conflict by limiting it to “the current Gaza-Israeli War”. This has been going on for five decades.
I haven’t said it is the Holocaust in the sense of the death camps. I have compared it to the various ghettos that the Nazis penned the Jews into prior to the death camps, gave them their own fake government, etc. That was genocide. Gaza isn’t quite as bad as the Nazi ghettos, but the level of difference is nothing to take comfort in. It is the exact same sort of atrocity.
In fact, I can compare the two, and there is nothing you can do to stop me from comparing the two. Your personal level of dislike/offense is nothing compared to the actual events of destroying homes, killing people etc. Stop minimizing it. Accept the UN definition and call for the targeting of civilians to cease 100 percent.
Giraffe: this is not a thread about your knowledge of how much fun sanctimonious masturbation is, that really is too much information, especially considering how prodigious the Rothschild phallus is, and how you use it worship several times a day.
But to answer your “bolded” questions, of which I count two.
(1) No.
(2) Yes.
I’m not the OP in either this or the original IMHO later GD thread. I have linked to the definition of genocide from the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.
The people mocking me in this thread notably don’t put in writing that they accept this definition, offering a variety or reasons, such as genocide must be worse than this, or this would make every war genocide. There was much whining earlier that there was no attempt to wipe out the “whole” population, and then I gasp bolded the part that said “in part” and then they retreated to saying it just wasn’t awful enough to be genocide.
I gather that they might not believe that I could in good faith apply the legal definition of genocide to the events of the past five decades between Israel and the Palestinians. I do not see how someone who looks at the definition and the facts and cannot come to that conclusion if they were evenhanded and not partisan if they were acting in good faith. When I see that the people refusing to acknowledging the genocide run up and down the list of 12 rhetorical abuses genocide deniers usually use http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/12waystodenygenocide.html I conclude that they are either still ignorant, or propagandists willfully blind.
That would require a redefinition of the word “unique” which means one of kind. The definition I use is the legally accepted internationally accepted definition of the word “genocide”.
So you are saying that I am not applying a correct definition to the facts? That I am not weighing and applying the facts correctly? Do you accept the definition?
Thank you for your praise of awe. Do you accept the UN definition, just claiming that my weighing and construing of facts is “stupidity”?
“Does a minor rainstorm become a hurricane?” Yes, all hurricanes first begin as a minor rainstorm, move on to a tropical depression and then become hurricanes. They start as category 1 and go all the way up to category 5, with some storm specialists saying we might need another category due to the additional energy current hurricanes have. To use your analogy, the Holocaust was at least a category 5, I’d say even worse.
A dusting of snow a blizzard? All storms that turn into blizzards start on the fringes as a dusting of snow or other storm. The problem with analogies is that taken to any extreme, they all become false analogies. The awful Israel/Palestine problem isn’t a hurricane, blizzard, paper cut or bump. It is a protracted violent conflict that is a genocide and also a war.
Do I get a paper cut and compare it to losing a finger? Not personally, but a paper cut certainly can and does become gangrenous in some circumstances resulting in loss of extremity or life itself.
I have never been bumped into and accused someone of murder. Georgi Ivanov Markov was bumped into and in the process murdered.