Tomorrow may mark the end of my marriage.

Helen, what you said here:

struck me. (and you said it twice) I, too, was blind sided (and that’s after two wonderful daughters and twenty five years of quite reasonably contented marriage) and didn’t know what hit me. I didn’t get the opportunity to decide whether to keep him or not because he just up and left. It took awhile to realize what a shit he really was. I think it’s pretty normal to think that he’s not such a bad sort (after all, you did marry him) and that you could make the marriage work. Don’t kid yourself. The advice you’ve been given here is all pretty much spot on. He betrayed you, and in the most despicable way possible. Could you live with that?

On a brighter note: There are wonderful men out there. It’s been a little over two years since my divorce and I am very happily remarried to an awesome man. Give yourself the opportunity to find someone too or be content with yourself and your precious daughter. Either one is better than catering to scum.

HelenTroy, my sympathy and support for you in your and your child’s time of need.

Now for a different perspective.

I WAS that 3 year old child. My mother left my father when she was fed up with the abuse that he was dishing out to her, my brother and I. Granted, the circumstances of the separation are different than yours, but since I was 3 years old, I just remembered only that my father was not in the household, very much like your 3 year old is experiencing now.

Of course it only got tougher before it got better and a lot of incredible things had to fall into place for us to prosper, but the outcome of my brother (now 40) and I (now 41) are quite different as well. After gaining full custody of us, my mother moved from Arizona to California and took a job as a buyer for an iron ore mining company in the middle of nowhere (between Indio and Blythe) in the low desert. She had to work long hours, which meant being with a baby sitter (a Jekyll and Hyde type) for extended times since my mom had to work harder for less pay (mid-1960’s) and still had to provide food, shelter and clothing for the three of us since she was the head of household and the wage earner in a company where she was 1 of 2 women in the whole company where 100’s of men worked. It was the poorest time of our life, but it was far better than getting beat up on a recurring basis. But mom had very little energy and time for us which didn’t seem fair for any of us. She decided for the 3 of us to spend the weekends with her sisters (in Covina) and/or her parents (in Arcadia, about 150 miles away) who were more than happy to have us over (Fortune #1).

Fortune #2 came along two years later when a friend (a company rep) was also a friend of an staff optometrist working for a subsidiery company of my mom’s company. This friend got my mom and and this man together on a blind double date on a sailboat in Long Beach (or Newport Beach - can’t recall). They eventually fell in love and got married 2 years later in 1971. “Dad” became a permanent fixture in my life from that point on and it was for the better. Being 10 years older than my mother and had also gone through his own divorce earlier (with 4 kids from that marriage), he knew that my brother and I needed encouragement, discipline and a father figure who knows how to teach 2 boys to learn how to become 2 men. Schoolwise, I fared pretty well with my school grades, but my brother had difficulties early on which may had something to do with the lack of a father for the previous 4 years, or the abuse itself. I had no ill effects of the abuse although I do tend to be slightly lenient on my own kids - not sure if there is a connection there. Lots of sports, lots of chores, lots of homework were the norm, but we did find time to play though. Looking back, the structure my dad created seemed harsh these days, but the results were quite positive for me. My brother still had problems in school though and his attention span was always short; even when we played, my brother was very accident prone (especially on bikes) because of his lack of attention. By the time I was a teenager, I realized that my brother and I were already on two different paths. My mom and dad both realized this as well, and tried everything they could think of (including counceling) to get my brother to focus more. He did not graduate high school.

As the years clicked by, my brother did get his GED and got a job (by my referral) at a Price Club (now Costco). He got one of his coworkers accidentally pregnant and ended up marrying her (civil union). They had a baby girl and he seemed to accept the responsibility quite well at first and supported the family. About a dozen years ago (the daughter was 4 years old at the time), he started having an affair with another coworker at a different location, and she did the same EXACT thing that the homewrecker you described is doing. Turns out later that said housewrecker can’t conceive children at all (Is that justice or what?), but did manage to sway my brother into leaving his wife and daughter and the stability that they once had. My mom (and my dad to a lesser extent) has tried to help my brother, his wife and her grand-daughter anyway she could, but it infuriated the housewrecker who was now overly controlling of my brother’s life. My brother has pretty muched disowned my mom, yells at his daughter whenever she is at his home because of bad grades, lying, etc. At 16, the daughter is now a mess becuase of the crap my brother and the housewrecker has put her through and to a much lesser extent, my brother’s ex-wife for giving away sole custody of her in the first place. I guess my mom could be thrown into the pot as well, since she was going on instinct from our earlier trials and tribulations.

I too was also on the shit list for refusing to give them money for the housewrecker’s invitro fertilization about ten years ago. It tells you how whacked-out the housewrecker was and the control she has on my brother to ask me for such a thing. Somehow, my brother and I still talk after all these years and I seem to be the only connection he has to the rest of our family and relatives, albeit months go by without a phone call or message returned when I call.

I dread the situation your in HT, because it really sucks. You will have every good intention for you and your daughter, and yet it STILL may not be good enough becuase of the other people involved. Your daughter definitely needs a father figure of some type. Even my grandfather helped out in our time of need. School grades are usually a good guide (but not the only indicator) on how your daughter is faring. I pray that your solution is beneficial for all.

P.S. - The last time I saw my father, I was 9 years old in early 1973. I’ve wondered over the years on his current situation and whereabouts to the point of hiring a private investigator over the years, but it has been fruitless. His death index (using the SS#) is still open. He may have become a hermit somewhere in Arizona, doing small scale mining out in the desert somewhere. He was last seen in the early 1990’s in Tucson, fighting it out with the city council’s blight policy over the mining equipment in his front yard. He also owes $100,000+ to the IRS in back taxes since the late '70s, so at this point, he may never want to be found. My future medical history is somewhat dependent on his current medical history, so I feel this is somewhat important. Don’t let it get that point.

PPS - I’ve only had sex with one woman in my entire life and will continue to do so until death do us part. For this, I am grateful that I am married to her. With all the media coverage and stories similar to this, I don’t understand why men get sucked into this trap.

Helen, # 1- VERY smart thing to do as far as getting support established now. No matter what ends up happening YOUR child deserves to be supported by his father.

#2- You are not alone. Here is a forum for women (and men) in your situation. This board is not for everyone, not everyone agrees with the principals of the board owners but sometimes it helps to know there are others who have btdt and survived. Not all marriages can survive an affair (and he can call it what he wants, it IS an affair) and fewer can survive one when there is a child conceived in one. Any way here is the url

I will not even try to tell you I have the answers because there was no child involved when I went through this, but I do have an ear and a shoulder if you need/want them.

PS Your hubby is a :wally and an asshole IMNSHO

I think he’s already shown what kind of father he is-not even caring enough to see his daughter for more than two days a month! And she’s ALREADY crying because her father ignores her. Do you think that if she takes him back, he’s going to suddenly stop doing so?

Even then, divorce would NOT mean that the girl would be forever severed from her father. Staying together for the kids is almost always a bad idea. What kind of message is that sending to her-be a doormat and let men (well, the shitty ones) walk all over you?

Screw that!

Didn’t **HoT ** say that he is only legally allowed to see her twice a month, not that he chose to only see her twice a month?

Believe me when I say that I am on the OP’s side of things, but seriously, we don’t know nearly enough to question the man’s fitness as a father. Not even the OP has even suggested that he’s a bad father.

THat’s only until he gets a lawyer and his lawyer informs of how child support is calculated-based on incomes and timeshare-and he realizes that it’s in his best interest to fight for more time. There are lots of guys who do this. THey have zero interest in their kids, yet it’s easier on their wallets to see the kids more, so they do.

Sam

One of my relatives found out her husband was cheating when the youngest of her children was two years old. She was pregnant with their fourth child at the time. She confronted him, demanded that he choose between them and when he said he chose her, the wife, she let him come home and insisted that he was not to see the other woman any more. He was moody, bad tempered and agitated for a couple of weeks, and then he abruptly changed his mind and went to the other woman, who was also pregnant. They divorced, and with his consent she moved back to her hometown with all her kids. That put a lot of distance between them, and afterwards he had no role in his children’s life.

The second youngest child was three by this stage, and she was Daddy’s Princess. She took the marriage break up very hard, and she starting having troubles with her speech, reverting back to baby talk. It took a couple of years before she started talking properly again. Despite this, she is now in her late teens and has never suffered a permanent setback from that traumatic time. She speaks well, does well in school, is no more messed up than your typical teen and is a really nice girl to boot. The three other children have also come through relatively emotionally unscathed and are doing just fine. Meanwhile, the children of the father’s second marriage are not doing so well as he can be quite a negative influence on them, and a couple of the children have rebelled in a major way. Two years of speech therapy is pretty minor compared to what’s going on with her step and half siblings.

I’m posting this because I’m sure you’re worried about how all of this will affect your child and you may even see some behaviour from her that worries you, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t all work out over the long term. There are more damaging things than the trauma of divorce, and IMHO learning that the role of a wife is to be a doormat to her husband is one of those things. Be that strong role model for your daughter, and make your husband lie in the bed he made for himself. Good luck, and all the best.

Any schmuck like your husband who needs a few days to think about it should be given a lifetime to think about it.

Get rid of him. It will only be a matter of time before he gets involved again and you don’t need this. Too many decent fish in the ocean to choose from.

Word. Real men take responsibility for and ownership of their actions and especially their mistakes. They don’t exploit the obligation to take responsibility as a cheap ploy for sympathy.

Oh, and I meant to say:

Best message board in the universe, innit?

Get rid of him.

Now that I said that, let me get more specific.

I don’t like the word homewrecker. It’s always the “other” woman or man who gets the blame, but most of the time, they get the short end of the stick. She met a guy, fell in love and is now fighting to keep him. People do crazy things when they’re in love, but she did not get into this to ruin your life. There’s no personal vendetta, no evil scheming in the basement on how to screw over Helen the most.

There’s only one culprit: your husband.
He strayed, he made a choice, he left you, he’s keeping you waiting.

By focusing on “that” woman, you’re actually playing into his hands. He’ll blame her, but the only one to blame is himself.

“But… ya know… I was drunk. She was coming on to me… It was only a one night stand… She promised me she was on the pill… I’m so sorry I was weak… But… well she practically raped me…”

Bullshit. He stuck his dick where it shouldn’t be. It was his choice.
Don’t blame her, blame him.

Well, I was going to chime in and say “Good luck”, but really luck has nothing to do with it. Be in control. Don’t let them emotions of the confrontation change what you plan to say (it is way too easy to say something that can’t be taken back).

Whatever your decision is, you have a long tough road ahead. Feel free to come here for support. As long as it has nothing to do with politics, there’s not single asshole here.

And do what is best for you, and what is best for your child. He’s lost the privilege of having his interests matter to the situation.

The way family courts are right now, there’s little chance if any that he’d get more ‘visitation’ than two weekends a month even if he petitioned for it. From those people I know who’ve had kids and been divorced, more often it’s the ‘every other weekend’ visitation than the ‘joint custody’.

What about the ones who have joint custody, and the kid lives with them approximately 50% of the time, but they still pay child support? What about those who can’t get more visitation because their homes are ‘unsuitable’ for the child once all they can afford is a one bedroom apartment after paying their child support?

There’s no reason to assume that he wouldn’t want to spend more time with his kid if the deck weren’t stacked against fathers in family court.

Helen, you have my utmost sympathy. Especially because, about 4 months ago, I ended up putting another woman in a similar situation to what you’re in. To say that I’m unbelievably ashamed would be an understatement and I don’t know if I’ll ever get past what all that has transpired with me in the middle.

Regardless of my own major fuck ups and how they translate to my ex and his wife, I wanted to offer (if you’re interested) a perspective that you’ll probably never get from your husband. And one you rightly couldn’t ask of her. So, if you’d like to get an idea of what all he’s been telling her and how he might be portraying your relationship to himself and others, I certainly wouldn’t mind doing whatever I can, if it could help some. God knows that I’ve got the rest of my life to try to do something about it, so sharing anything I can that would prevent you or your daughter from being hurt anymore than y’all’ve already been, would be an honor.

However, if you’d rather not, I completely understand. For some background information, you can search for posts by my username and find the thread (and the subsequent pit) that gives details and explains what a total dumbass I was.

I hope you continue to take good care of yourself and your daughter. Good thoughts, from someone who wishes she could change her past, coming your way.

Dammit. Meant to add, that if you’d like to take me up on this, my email is in my profile.

Sorry. :smack:

I also think that Diogenes’ analysis of your husband’s martyring himself is pretty spot-on.

Still, the decision is yours (or, at least, it should be) and only you know your own heart. And you know him better than we do.

The only new advice I have to add is that the timing might be meaningful. The toddler years are hard on marriage, even when the child is madly loved and the partners care deeply for each other. It’s not just the self-centered willful behavior typical of this age that’s so wearing. They’re also exploring their identities and forging new relationships with each parent, and it changes the dynamic and emotional role for each of you.

Of course, millions of Dads make it through this tough stage without screwing cocktail waitresses on the side, so I’m not saying this to give him a free pass or make excuses. He’s still a jackass. But it may help explain why he did something that surprised the heck out of you, and it’s something worth looking at if you choose to pursue counseling with him.

No. Actually it sounds very smart. You are covering your bases while you decide whether to take the scum bucket back or not (personally, I vote for not).

I am a divorced woman (luckily for me there were no children involved when I kicked his royal highness to the curb). And, I was 12 when my parents divorced (and my Father chose her children (from her first marriage) over his own). I could prattle on for paragraphs, but my advice would just parrot most of what you have already received.

I have a friend who was in exactly your situation several years ago. They “reconciled” and she took him back and “trusts him completely” and “knows that he will never do that again”. However, she is practically in his back pocket at all times and when they are not together she calls him continually. She tells us that they are just “a close knit family” that likes spending time together, but the only person she seems to be fooling with that line is herself.

I would not presume to tell you what to do. Only you can decide what is best for you and your daughter. But, whatever you choose, I wish you only the best of luck and all the happiness in the world.

Big, warm hugs to both you and your daughter…

I agree completely. In fact, I had to feel about in the dark for a crowbar to pry my eyes back down after I read that.

But seriously, HelenTroy, I hope everything works out well for you. I don’t much believe in giving advice to others in matters of relationships so I won’t try to do so here. But you sound like a very good person and I wish you nothing but the very best no matter how it works out.

Regards. :slight_smile:

HelenTroy, my brothers and I were about 3 when my parents divorced. Not the same circumstances (but your daughter does not have to know the details until you feel she can handle it). It never really bothered me that I didn’t have a father around, my brothers were a little more upset about it, but not too much. I think this is because we have such a good mother.

Just wanted to add my voice that a divorce does not automatically mean you will have a child with lifelong trauma. You can do a lot to mitigate any damage, especially if you have some family around (just make sure they know not to say anything bad about your ex around your daughter).

Best Wishes