Um, Lexicon? I think that you’re misinterpreting revtim’s point, and being needlessly insulting too boot. As klaatu pointed out (and you seemed to agree with), poor training of tech support workers can be a big problem. And it seemed to me that the unhelpful answers revtim received is indicative of poor training on the part of Gateway’s tech support.
And why the insistence on revtim’s ignorance? The answer to the hard disk/BIOS question doesn’t seem at all obvious to me, and if the answer isn’t in the manual, then tech support ought to be the correct place to go to get the answer. Customers don’t have a monopoly on stupidity; I imagine you’ve seen hardware and software that doesn’t do what it’s supposed to do (or what the manual says). When I have that problem, I go to tech support. The last time I emailed a tech support person, my answer was to use a feature that was undocumented in my version of the manual. Did just what I wanted, too. Was I stupid to email tech support instead of figuring it out myself?
In addition, only a tiny fraction of Gateway’s customers are going to have your (i.e., Lexicon’s) technical expertise. I imagine only a minority even have revtim’s (or my) technical background. In fact, most customers are going to be like your father, who couldn’t even make sense of what Gateway told him! So your example underscores what I think is revtim’s point: if a customer is getting information from tech support that is incomplete, confusing, misleading, or just plain wrong, then that’s a sign of poor training.
Lest you misunderstand me, let me say that I agree wholeheartedly with most of your OP. Yelling at tech service people who are only trying to help is both churlish and counterproductive. If I call someone, I read the manual first, try to clearly phrase my question[s], ask for clarification if I don’t understand, and I’m always polite. For the most part, I’ve gotten correct and courteous service in return. However, I’ve occasionally been told to do something that makes no sense, reluctantly tried it, called back to clarify, and been told (by a different customer service rep) that he had no idea why I was told to do whatever it was. Poor training.
I have been a customer, a rep and a rep supervisor. Here are a few tips for both reps and customers to make your experience a little better.
Customers:
You did not wait 20 minutes because the rep was having coffee and chatting by the water cooler. You waited 3.2 minutes because the rep was busy helping someone who called before you.
Do not yell at, curse or threaten the rep. Do you actually believe this is going to get you better service? How fast do you think that form you so desperately want is going to reach you after you’ve called the person responsible to send it to you a stupid bitch?
The supervisor’s job is to supervise. If you ask to speak to the supervisor with a customer service question do you know what he’ll do? He’ll hand everything over to the rep you were just speaking to. He’ll even probably put you on hold forever while he asks the rep what should be done.
Realize that there are things the customer service rep has no control over. Like the Post Office and what time the service tech actually arrived at your house.
An answer that you received and did not like cannot be changed by the force of your will. Sometimes the answer is “no”.
If a mistake was made on your claim or your service has been interrupted, it is not the reps fault. Believe me, they hate these call generating mishaps even more than you do.
Customer Service Reps:
Don’t get short or cutting because 20 people have called to ask the same question. Be as nice to the last as you were to the first. You may have answered the same question 20 times, but each customer has only asked it once.
Don’t sigh or suck your teeth. Don’t answer the question before the customer has finished asking it. You may have heard it before, but the customer has never said it before.
Not everyone who calls is a jerk. Not even most people who call are jerks.
Yes, the customers are ignorant. This is why they are calling you. If they knew the answer, do you think they’d be wasting their time driving you crazy? Both parties: These are people you are dealing with. Please give each other the respect and consideration all your fellow human beings deserve.
This is dead on. I worked for a long distance phone company that solicited the majority of it’s first customers through a big ISP. I got into it early, and was one of the first 100 or so people hired for customer service. The company grew so quickly that they were constantly restructuring departments and shuffling people around like pawns on a chessboard.
The company offered promotions designed to sign up thousands upon thousands of new accounts that they knew full well we could not provide support for. They needed to do massive cattle-call type hiring to keep the phone waiting times under 15 minutes. It became a well-known fact that ANYBODY who could read could probably get a customer service position at the company. After a while, you couldn’t go to a party anywhere within thirty miles of work where somebody wouldn’t say “Oh, you work at Blah Blahblah? My cousin/brother/roommate used to work there for a while.”
Turn-around was huge. I mean, this was the ultimate revolving door. When I started, we had two weeks of training, learned about the history and some of the technical stuff of the business. By the time I left, training was down to two DAYS, and consisted mainly of learning which page number the correct word-for-word response to a particular FAQ was on.
After a short while I got off the phones and moved onto supervising credits and refunds to customer accounts. The shit that crossed my desk was pathetic. Anyone with a tinge of common sense or basic math skills would have fixed the problem long before I ever saw it. I honestly felt sorry for the majority of customers I had to deal with.
Later, I moved to Quality Control and saw that things were just getting worse. Digging into several different departments, I saw that people who had no business even speaking on the telephone had been promoted to positions where they could royally fuck things up, and they did. My boss and I started referring to ourselves as Damage Control instead. It became common knowledge in the office that if you were a customer who called in, there was about an 80% chance that you would get a rep on the line who would have absolutely NO idea what you were talking about, much less have any idea how to help you. Most people didn’t even know who in the building would know how to help them.
The bottom line is that, yes, absolutely, within some companies, the majority of customer service representatives are useless morons. However, this is not their fault. It is the fault of companies who would rather take the money and run than build a solid relationship with the customer. Perhaps the company I worked for was a rare case, but I somehow doubt it.
Well, my minor rant is this. I expect I’ll have a bigger one after Saturday.
What I hate is similar to Anth’s post…I know enough about computers to USUALLY tell what’s wrong. (I freely admit that some things are beyond me.) What annoys the hell out of me is when some idiot in either sales or customer service assumes I know nothing because I’m a woman. This JUST happened with my cable modem sale, and it better NOT happen when they hook it up, or I’m gonna scream. All I need is 5 minutes of the guy’s time. How do I connect, how do I set up Eudora, and what’s the support #. After that, LEAVE.
Okay, I already came back and defended my common knowledge statement. I already, in this very thread, came back and said what had to be said about that post. So go back, look for it, and read it. If you care that much, that is.
And I don’t think everyone who calls me is dumb. When I talk about the dumb people that I talk to, that’s who I’m talking about: the dumb motherfuckers.
In case you missed the sign on the way in, this is the Pit. I came here to rant about something that got on my tits, that’s all. Why in the name of Ares’s butthole would I talk about all the cool people I talk to on a daily basis? If I wanted to post a thread about how happy I was that I got to fix someone’s problem and they were nice and happy and all that, I would do it MPSIMS, moron.
Just think before you post, okay? That’s all I ask. Just read the whole thread so you don’t look like more of dipshit than normal.
See, a bunch of you semi-literate beanbags are whining “that’s not common knowledge. The average dickhead doesn’t know that. I don’t know that. Why did you say he was ignorant? What’s the big deal.” If you had read the whole thread before you knee-jerk vomited a post, you would see what I meant by that because I came back to clarify. So shut the fuck up until you’ve read some more.
And now this: While it is true that Revtim has a very valid point, and that more than likely what happened to him did suck, it’s bullshit to to take one incident and say that they’re all like that.
I know, I know. I can hear some idiot already thinking “But wait, Lex, you’re contradicting yourself. Earlier, you said that this is the Pit so why talk about the goood stuff…”
Because, dickmongrel, the good customer experience at the company I work for far outstrips the bad ones. That is to say that even though we get the shit end of the stick 92% of our clients go home happy and have their problem fixed lickety split. So Revtim’s experience is rare, at least where I work. The thing is, and this is the crux, that this is in spite of the fact that most of these people treat us like shit.
They contact us and are total assholes. We fix everything and make it all better. So Revtim, you’re right, and I’m sorry you had a shitty experience. It happens. I hope it all comes out all right.
I must, however, take issue with this:
And why not? That’s like saying “A driver shouldn’t have to change the oil in their car every 3,000 miles so the engine doesn’t blow!” I would say you are whiny petulant school girl in the body of a total fuckin’ nimrod, but you scream it for yourself when you post shit like that.
People seem to think that their computer is just some rinky-dink peice of simple equipment like a toaster or a hair dryer. I got news for you kids, they aint. They are the most sophisticated, quirky, not-fully-understood-even-by-their-makers pieces of equipment in the world. And to boot, they are run by software that is written with one hand tied to the programmers balls. You have a million different software companies and dotcoms writing 10 million different software titles to do 100 million different things. And people seem to think that they can get into them without the faintest idea of what they’re doing and not have any problems, that they are going to have some utopian experience where everything works just because they want it to, and tech support is some angel on their shoulder/whore on her knees for them.
Wake the fuck up.
Don’t you see? If you had the initiative a dog has to lick it’s own sac, you’d have poked around on the Website in a place mysteriously called “knowledge library” and found out what you needed for yourself.
That’s why the insistence on your his ignorance, zut. That’s why I reacted the way I did. The information you need is there waiting for you, but you feel the need to have someone butter your ass and do it for you because you think you’re special and shouldn’t have to go and get what you want. I really doubt you’re like that in real life. Expecting everyone to do stuff you should do for yourself for you. Do you make your wife wipe your ass? Then why the fuck do you ask someone for something you can find on your own?
My husband works in level 2 (doesn’t directly answer the phone anymore) tech support for a large computer company, and I’ve learned from him that both the callers and the front line support techs are likely to be complete idiots.
Callers typically lie about everything from what brand machine they have (trying to scam support) to what they have done to break the thing, to whether they have followed the tech’s instructions. Often, a call will go on for an hour or two, with the tech completely stumped, when it finally comes out that the problem first occurred after the caller used his laptop in the shower, or some such.
On the other hand, for level 1 support, this company hires people with little knowledge, and provides them with a searchable database to answer questions. That’s why you get the standard responses even if you give them very specific information - they’re just typing in some keywords and reading the resulting screen. The company also places great stock in the techs using scripted polite greetings and sign-offs, rather than in the quality of their substantive advice.
There are problems at both ends. But my husband is reknowned for being a great support person, and sometimes the customers he deals with are truly atrocious. People do become abusive and downright crazy, even when support is polite. There have even been death threats against techs, as Minxsmom discussed. I think in general, at least at this company, callers behave much worse than support techs.
Well, I can sympathize deeply with techs who have to deal with rude, inconsiderate and ignorant customers. But
Perhaps because they lack a particular technical expertise or comfort level. Perhaps because they have purchased a program or machine with the understanding that technical support would be provided for these very issues. Perhaps because its your job.
Hey, I can do basic home repairs, too. I can also look up all kinds o detailed information about wiring specifications, etc. But if I’m in doubt, I call an electrician.
Besides, if users all solved their own problems you’d be out of work.
Gee, I wish I had stumbled on this thread earlier, since Lex was so conscientious as to quote me.
I am not going to pour my heart out with sympathy for all the much-maligned tech-support people in the world. You would not believe me if I did, anyway. The fact is, like any other profession, you take the good with the bad. And I have no problem dismissing the bad as trained monkeys. They may be perfectly intelligent, decent people, but they just can’t get it right.
My SO and I dealt with the trained monkeys at MCI and Verizon for over four months. Not once did we raise our voices, use profanity, issue threats, or act in a disrespectful manner. Yet the trained monkeys, and I do not repent the phrase, continued to fail to enter the necessary work order to process our service, consistently made mistakes in entering simple data like our phone number, and were unable to stop charging us for a phone plan even though the phone line in our apartment was utterly dead.
Four months later, we gave up. No one was able to provide us with a phone line, and not for any unique technical difficulty that our apartment presents. They just couldn’t get their fucking shit together. We had to beg a friend to take a day off to wait in our apartment when we were finally able to make an appointment for a tech visit at home. The tech never showed up. No call. No nothing.
The smallest violin the world plays for utter, willful incompetence.
It took eleven faxes to Radio Shack and over six hours on the phone with customer service reps before I could convince them that my check, which they cashed, had not been properly credited to my account. One after another they insisted that I had not paid, despite the overwhelming physical evidence to the contrary, namely, a copy of the cashed check. Only when I spoke to a senior account exective, after wasting hours of time at work, did I get results. Too bad the whole matter was not resolved before their monthly delinquency reports to the credit bureaus. That is another story altogether.
I used CompuServe customer assistance the other day, when I cancelled my account (not because of poor service, FTR, but because I have no fucking phone line at home and free internet at work). The customer rep could not believe that I was a New Yorker.
Rep: “But you are so polite!”
I don’t call customer service with asinine complaints and questions. I read the license agreements. I know my rights, and I know my way around technology. All I expect is service: I want a phone line in my apartment, and I want my credit record to be clean when payment has been rendered. Apparently customer service thought these things were too much to ask.
So you tell me, Lexicon. Who named you spokesman for the oppressed? I’m sorry that you are so sorely offended, but if you are as knowledgeable and thorough a customer service rep as I suspect you are, you probably don’t put customers in the types of situations that the above-linked thread was referring to.
Umm, are you sure you know one fucking thing about computers? If you truly believe that one must upgrade the BIOS for every single hardware upgrade, or it being even close being analagous to changing oil in a car, then I have deep sympathy for the people you allegedly technically assist.
I just want to nominate the worst support system in the world - yes, that’s right, PacBell ISDN/DSL help line.
First, the automated system asks for the phone number you are calling about. I don’t know why, because the first thing the tech support guys ask is the what number you are calling about. It happens so consitently that I believe the system just throws away the number, it’s just a way of keeping me busy while I wait.
Second, and this may be hard to believe, but they ask the question: “Can we sell your information to 3rd parties at will?” The question is bad enough - but here are the two choices they offer “yes” and “I don’t understand the question”. Yes, really!! If you choose “I don’t understand the question” you go to waiting for a support rep (so they can help you understand the question, not about your problem). I’ve never gotten past this question - I always have to wait for the support rep.
Third, about half the time when I get put into the waiting queue, I’m disconnected.
Fourth, the system asks if you are calling about ISDN or DSL. But this has no effect on who you are routed to! I choose ISDN and then start asking ISDN questions, and the support rep says she only knows about DSL.
So of course by the time I get on the phone with a human, I’ve already had an infuriating experience. I’m a bit pissed off. So maybe before people complain about customers who are needlessly angry, keep in mind that from the support rep has it easy - he just picks up the phone and says “hello”. The customer frequently has to fight his way in.
Defending my technical skills in utterly unnecessary. I know what you’re saying Revtim (can I call you Rev?) and I wasn’t making trying to make a direct analogy. In any case, the point I was trying to make was that if you want to do something, it won’t happen magically. Sometimes it’s not easy as pie, is all I was trying to point out. And sometimes you have to change one thing to change another and so on. Upgrading the BIOS isn’t what you would call routine maintenance, you’re right. And in that respect, it’s nothing like an oil change. It’s just something that’s necessary to do if you want your equipment to work in light of the upgrades we were talking about. But once again, you’re right. I could have come up with an anology more consistent with my point. I didn’t. Oops.
When you went off on your tangent, I followed you. Mea culpa. In any case, I have acknowledged that you make a very valid point, and as has been said elsewhere in this thread, many techs are complete idiots-just like the people they are trying to help. In fact, if you still need some help, and you don’t really think I don’t know what I’m talking about, you can e-mail personally and I’ll see what I can find out. Since I fucked up and jumped your shit when I shouldn’t have, I am offering the olive branch.
I digress and ramble.
What can you do? If you hire good techs, they are going to solve problems. Solving problems takes time. This makes hold times longer. People will bitch about that instead. Also, you have to pay good techs more, which means that tech support would no longer be free. People would bitch about that, too.
You can please some of the people some of the time… how does the rest go again?
Anthracite: Yeah, I cuss a lot. So fuckin’ what? We’ve talked about that here in the pit already. We have talked about cursing and how it reflects on one’s intelligence, if it even does so, and about why people curse and when and all that. If you’re that interested, look it the fuck up.
At any rate, I didn’t mean everything I said. I was just pissed about something. My first post was dead on, and I stand by it. I feel I should have let it stand on it’s own, and not come back to my own thread. Then again, what would that say? The point is that there are idiots everywhere. No one named me anything, well, at least not a spokesman for the oppressed.
I believe the point of my thread, albeit muddled with anger, was that tech folks and others in the support industry hate being lumped in with the crowd of shitty people in the industry. That’s all. Much like many customers here who have had a bad experience and are smart and were nice (see Revtim, and my consequent apology) hate being lumped in with the asshole customers out there who lie and cheat and try to scam the company and who can’t follow simple intstructions or even read sometimes.
I can go on and on about stupid people who jump the gun, call tech support and start screaming at some poor tech. They just paid x amount of dollars for a something that won’t even turn on and they are pissed off and they graduated from DeVry (ooh!) and so they know it’s hooked up right and so on, come to find out that the whole problem is they plugged the surge protector into itself.
I have a million of 'em, call them war stories. I have a few (literally, like 6) stories about a cool customer who was smart and understanding and allowed me to help him.
I have been on both sides of the fence, and in my limited personal experience, the techs have a lot more to lament than do the customers. But maybe I’m biased. In any case, that’s just how I see it.
Maeglin, I’m sorry you had a bad experience. I did not single you out, I just wanted to post a link to the thread that set me off. I am sure your situation is one that is unrelated to what I have been talking about. Hopefully, we can all agree that shitheads are everywhere, and most regulars of this board are not like that.
Or not. It makes no difference to me, really. I think it would be at least some small comfort for customers to know that for every time you have a bad experience, there are at least 50 techs who are sitting through an insufferable conversation with people who are getting them back for you, at least a little bit.
Uhh…OK. I was trying to be humorous, to lighten things up. Calm-diddly-down, dude.
Why exactly are you so upset? What stress does this job have for you? As best as I can tell (and granted, according to you, I’m a “semi-literate beanbag” and a “dipshit”, so you have to be patient with me) you are upset because dumb fucking people call you, and yell at you about things out of your control, or about stupid things that they should be able to fix themselves, and so on. Do I have that right?
It really sounds to me like you need to find another job. If that’s all it takes to inspire this sort of apparant hatred towards your customers/clients, then I certainly hope that you don’t own any firearms. I would hazard a guess that a lot of this anger probably carries over into your job as well. I certainly hope not. If one of my support people showed 1/20th the anger towards a client that you are showing here, I would fire them. Period.
I mentioned earlier what real computer support stress is, you obviously didn’t read that or take it to heart. I’d love to see how you would handle the stress of a support job where if you can’t answer the question or fix the problem you end up in court giving a deposition.
But then, it was just the words of a semi-literate dipshit, right?
You know, at the time I made my post I was referring to the fact that I did not consider knowing that “P2 boards running AMI BIOS” would need to be updated to see a max of 136 Gigs was “common knowledge” even among tech support people. Let alone the average consumer. I know the tech support people where I work don’t know shit like that off the top of their head, and I don’t expect them to. Maybe if it’s a Gateway tech supporting Gateway PC’s with mostly the same MB. Just how many MB/BIOS combinations have there been in the last 5 years? Wanna guess? What if you’re dealing with something like OS/2, that can access the drives even when the BIOS drive settings are fucked up? I’ve got an OS/2 box that can see it’s 8 Gig HD even though the BIOS claims it cannot see it as greater than 528 MB. Why? Who the fuck knows? It’s not that clear cut sometimes, even to a tech.
Instead, you just hurled more insults and said I didn’t read the thread.
Also, at the time I made my post, you still had not retracted or modified this gem:
It seemed clear to me that despite what you said you still didn’t have a good understanding of what “smart” really was. Then later on you modified this statement. Ironic.
I have already answered this question. To revisit, I take offense to idea that many good, intelligent, courteous, professional customer service representatives get lumped in with those who are incompetent. I hate the fact that everything Klaatu and Reservoir dog say is true, and that the people that have to suffer for it have no say in it.
I hate the fact that people don’t understand what it is to work under these conditions, yet feel that they should take it out on someone who is trying their best to help them under fucked up conditions. That, baby, is exactly why I am so upset.
No. I don’t talk to everyone that calls in. Those days are thankfully behind me. Like Aeryn Sun’s husband, I am what you would call a level II tech, or someone who handles the proverbial shit that has hit the ever-loving fan. On top of which, I mentor, and get to be a part of the joy that is online tech support. Depending on where they need me, I am either:
Calling people back to assuage their righteous anger. Taking calls where someone wants to talk (read: scream, yell, and sometimes cry) to someone who gets paid enough to listen.
Replying to e-mail to try to help someone with any number of problems.
Good for you. You sound like a great manager. I don’t need to find another job. I love my job and am really good at it. I have several customer letters on the wall at work, where someone took the time to write the company to express their thanks for my services. I must agree, if I flew off the handle at work, I would probably have been fired a long time ago. Like you, if one of my techs flew off the handle and ranted like a maniac I would probably walk them out the door, too. Your guess is utterly inaccurate, as I don’t behave like a crazed silverback gorilla at work. I am professional and poised, and I have a knack for building rapport with our customers, even under stressful conditions, that allows me to smooth over many situations. The reasons I do a good job are because I am able to control myself. Further, I am able to come to a place that you are allowed certain freedoms of expression that would be taboo in the workplace to vent my frustration at a system that I cannot change, that is in a industry that does not seem to notice it’s 67% attrition rate. That’s here.
Now, don’t be scared. I own several firearms. I have yet to go on a rampage. Your amateur psychic evaluation of me based on this thread is silly. Luckily, I don’t consider you to be an illiterate bean-bag, nor a dipshit. If you wish to classify yourself with that sort of individual, I can not stop you, much as I would tend to think otherwise.
It seems clear to me that at this time you don’t have a clear grasp of what the term ironic really means. Curious.
In any case, if I insulted you as well, I am sorry. I didn’t mean to drag innocent bystanders into my rant; I only wished to vent. In any case, that would be a lame and bogus defense, so I will not claim it as such. All I can say is that it seems as though in your case as well as Revtim’s, I spoke to harshly and too soon. Forgive me.
I don’t think I’ll be retracting any gems at this time. If you call someone for help, you should be prepared to listen to what they have to say, even if you think it’s bullshit. If you contact them three or four times and you don’t get an answer you like, you may want to call them. If you call them and get the same answer, you can always call back. If you call them three or four times and you don’t like the answer, maybe it’s not the answer that’s fucked up.
Then again, like in Maeglin’s case, maybe not. Maybe you need to contact your legal advisor. Maybe you should conduct yourself like she (he? she? I don’t know. Sorry Maeglin if I get your gender wrong) did and not tear some poor person’s head off. Maybe bad things happen to good people sometimes and we should all try to grin and bear it.
shrug
If I had all the answers, I’d be sitting on top of a mountain with a long white beard down to my nuts. The fact is, I am a human man, just like the everyone else. We all get mad, and we all sometimes like to run off about something that we find infuriating. But we don’t go about killing people. At least, I don’t. What we can do is go somewhere and talk to people of like mind and inveigh at our sorrows in an effort to make them more manageable. That’s all I was doing here. The fact that I came back and attacked people may be wrong, so I have said I am sorry.
The overal gist of my post remains, and I remain by it. Or behind it. Or whatever, you know what I mean.
Well, what can I say? I think overall we agree on most issues, and your response was pretty decent. I also am thinking that “damn, two people that do the tech support shouldn’t be fighting each other here. They should be fighting the stampeding idiocy that sometimes is calling them to ask why Win98 won’t run their Mac version of Office.”
I could defend why I think I am actually a good manager, having worked my way up from the very ground floor of answering questions like “why won’t Windows work” to managing $500,000 engineering projects. I could point out that I did not classify myself as the aformentioned “semi-literate beanbag”, those were your words clearly directed at me. I could say that it was not at all the anger in your OP that I was referring to, it was that shown in many of the responses to date within this thread that I was referring to. I could say that you should re-read my comment on “smart” and “ironic”, as I was not implying at all that you were not smart, and the situation was pretty ironic.
Where ATI is concerned, they attempt to insulate their tech support from direct contact. They try to get you to e-mail their support people, which takes about 3-5 weeks to get an answer back from. I finally found a phone number for their tech support, finally got through after an hour of busy signals, and the support person did his best. He was the first tech support person who was helpful. He understood the problem and explained my options.
Contrast this with AOL tech support. A client installed AOL 5 and it blew his TCP/IP. He could see the local network, but that was it. No internet connectivity. I tried everything short of a full reinstall. So, since AOL 5 caused this, I called AOL. The tech support person had no idea what the problem was. I asked him if there was someone else I could speak to that might have an idea. He then got snotty with me and told me it was MY PROBLEM and as the client didn’t have an account, they didn’t have to help me.
I pointed out to the buttmunch that it would behoove them to help as he was in the process of signing up for an account, worked for a large company, and good word of mouth was an important thing. He percieved that as a threat, called me a jackass and hung up. I wanted his guts for garters. Still do.
You’re right, Anth (can I call you Anth?). We could go back and forth and explain away what we meant, and perpetuate a situation that was initiated by me being a butthead.
In any case, I just want to add for the record that I was not being faceitious in the least when I mentioned you being a good manager. I was sincere, <cue Kung Fu music> since your style seemed to much reflect my own. Just so you know.
And Maeglin? Good to know what team you play for. I’ll never call you a she again.
