I really try to view both sides of an issue and at the risk of an enormous shitstorm raining down upon me (I can only imagine, seeing as what happened to Dr. Butts), playing devil’s advocate for Treis…
MOL, as up front as you were, you could have been more up front. Like, “Call the cab. Call the cab now. What are you doing? Why aren’t you calling the cab? We can take the tour and then sit on the couch after you call the cab.” up front.
You weren’t stringing him along but you were slow to extinguish fires of passion at the same time.
[/devil’s advocate]
That doesn’t excuse the guy’s actions. He’s still a twit. I’m not saying you were asking for it but you weren’t doing yourself any favors either.
He should have planned ahead. But the fact that he didnt reinforces his creepo status. Needing to be in her apartment to call a cab gave him an excuse to himself to act that way. I’ve heard of this happening to women many times.
Had I been on the date, I would have had the common sense to have a phone with me, so if it was raining I could call my own cab and not make MOL potentially uncomfortable by waiting in her apartment for one.
Are you sure about that? How do you know? Because what I’m hearing is that you keep advancing sexually on a woman who says no. That’s the behavior you’re telling us you engage in. That’s pretty much the very definition of sexual harassment.
I don’t care if she’s a fucking game player (and I don’t dispute they exist), it doesn’t give you a free pass to play the game yourself. Just say no. Don’t stick your dick in the crazy.
I know it can be confusing. Some women *do *say no when they mean yes. Some women say no when they mean no, and then don’t say anything at all because they’re scared or ashamed of themselves or ambivalent. You know how you can tell the difference? You can’t. Don’t be that guy.
The only way to know for sure that you’re not raping or sexually assaulting someone is to only have sex with people who say yes.
If I did they didn’t seem too put off about it because they kept dating me.
shrug After that initial bout of crazy I enjoyed my relationship with them. Essentially there are three options with dealing with women like this:
(1) Don’t stick your dick in the crazy, as you put it.
(2) Wait them out and make them explicitly request every level of intimacy
(3) Play their stupid fucking game
Each has it’s pluses and minuses. (1) is the simplest solution, but you are writing off X% of the population, and typically these women aren’t crazy in other ways. Plus, it’s not like these people have external markings. It’s easy to say just write them off, but it’s harder to do when your 4 dates in and you kind of like them.
(2) is annoying and inefficient to my engineer brain.
(3) Gets everyone what they want at the risk of the guy making an ass of himself or worse.
I’ve done each of these at different points in my life and I can’t say any is better than the other. It just comes down to what you are looking for, how much effort you want to put in, and what risk you want to take.
WhyNot, you don’t understand. If they don’t pursue the girl who says no, they don’t get to have sex with that girl. And that will HAUNT THEM FOREVER. Why do you want to traumatize men like that?
It’s pretty simple. Just treat every no as a real no. If she actually means yes, she’ll find a way to let you know, unless she’s batshit crazy. If she says no, then quit pressing for sex. Men sometimes underestimate just how intimidating they can be. You might not THINK that you are threatening her, but you are almost certainly alone with her in a secluded area. If you keep pressing her, she has no reason to believe that you’ll back off. She’s said no once, and you have ignored it. Why should she expect your behavior to change? YOU HAVE ALREADY SHOWN THAT YOU DON’T RESPECT HER BOUNDARIES. If her experiences are anything like most women’s, then she has a reasonable fear that you will get offended if she keeps saying no, and that you might escalate into violence. Maybe you’ll respect her second no. Maybe her third? Or maybe you’ll just quit asking, and start taking. She doesn’t know. And she might prefer to get raped without being beaten. Because she doesn’t know how many times she can say no without pushing you too far. Maybe you’ll back off, but maybe you won’t.
NO. (3) Gets you what you want, but might mean that you raped someone, because you misread the signals. You interpreted the no as a yes. You got what you wanted. She got what she didn’t want.
You’re gross, treis. All you’re telling us is that you target women who are either passive or timid and you consider steamrolling them to be a great success. If you have any daughters, please let anyone other than yourself prepare them for men like yourself.
Please, this isn’t an after school special where one drink makes you an alcoholic, drug use invariably leads, and everyone’s getting date raped. I’m one hundred percent positive that I’ve never raped anyone. And frankly, the way you casually accuse me of being a rapist is a bit appalling.
It saddens me to see that women’s sincerity when deciding these things are not taken seriously. Media is to blame, but like you said, they dont have much of a choice either. If the guy was to give up after being told “no”, it wouldn’t be much of a show. So it can be said that the media is also a factor in misleading men to think that women aren’t sincere when the say “no”. However, I don’t know if there is a solution for this, other than maybe starting to require dating classes or some class along those lines when students reach a certain age like we do with sex education. The problem is that it isn’t feasible that the media will stop producing such works.
No, you’re just projecting your baggage on me. Seriously, you don’t know me or any of the women I dated. Insulting them because you don’t like what I’m saying is uncalled for.