Consider the state of the heavyweight division. Larry Holmes long reign ended in 85, and the titles were splintered among a bunch of good, not great fighters, and none of them could establish any kind of dominance. Tyson came through a couple of years later and defeated all of the other title holders – Trevor Berbick, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker, Pinklon Thomas, Michael Spinks – and re-unified the titles. And not only did he defeat all of these “champions,” he totally dominated them. And then he continued to dominate every ranked heavyweight they through in there with him. He wasn’t just winning, he was destroying these guys. And they were legit heavyweights. Not all-time greats, but good fighters, and they couldn’t muster any kind of fight against Tyson. There were no fighters on the horizon, other than Holyfield, who had a chance against Tyson. That’s why people thought so highly of Tyson, and partly why they were so stunned when Douglas beat him.
He intimidated people. I’m no boxing historian but I have to imagine that in many ways he was Sonny Liston all over again - scowling and menacing with a demeanor that basically said, “Don’t f*ck with me!” And then someone (Buster Douglas) came along and took that away leading the way for others to do the same. (the big, obvious difference being in what kind of career the guy who ended Sonny Liston’s run as champion had vs. the kind of “career” that the guy who ended Mike Tyson’s run had) Tyson WAS scary - strong as a bull (I remember the story of how it took four or five police officers to corral him one time when he was a mere 13-years old) and with the all-black outfit he almost seemed like the boxing version of Anton Chighur. Truthfully (and any REAL boxing aficionados can feel free to correct me on this) I don’t think he was ever all that great a boxer. More of a puncher, albeit one who was VERY strong and intimidating. Once he started running into guys who weren’t intimidated by him that’s when he had trouble holding on to his belt (is my recollection of things).
Tyson was never a great boxer, but he was a much better defensive fighter than he ever got credit for, at least until the Spinks fight. He had great head movement and a good guard, and rarely got caught by big punches. But after Cus D’amato died and after the Spinks fight, he got rid of the old cornermen and replaced them with hangers-on, and he became a much more one-dimensional fighter. Just headhunting, looking for the one-shot knockout.
And you’re right, he was intimidating and that was a big part of his success. But think about what it takes to intimidate a world-class heavyweight fighter. Look at James ‘Bonecrusher’ Smith. Huge guy (6’4"), great power, had been fighting world-class competition for years. When he fought Larry Holmes, Holmes was the undefeated champion, yet Smith still fought well and hurt Holmes a few times before ultimately losing. But against Tyson, Smith spent the entire fight holding on, too scared to engage Tyson. It takes a lot to intimidate a guy like that.
The nice thing is you can watch a lot of those Tyson fights on Youtube in only a few minutes. That KO punch to Carl Williams… Wow!
Another HUGE, muscular boxer who seemed just as intimidated by Tyson as Michael Spinks had been was Frank Bruno. Physically-speaking Frank Bruno was an absolute SPECIMEN but from the moment he stepped into the ring with Mike Tyson it seemed clear that he wanted no part of him. And you’re right - one would think that other professional boxers would be tough to intimidate but I guess with some that’s just not the case.
Serious question, since I pretty much stopped following boxing before Mike Tyson came along, and I never saw any of Tyson’s fights.
Who were the best fighters Tyson ever beat? I’m looking for great fighters who were in their primes when they took on Mike.
Tyson’s best win is generally regarded as the one against Razor Rudduck. Great fight, but Rudduck was still just a very good tier II fighter.
What should have been his best years were ruined by his complete lack of self control and his love of cocaine. Douglas was the guy that exposed him.
Agreed, Rudduck was his best opponent, and still not top tier. Tony Tucker and Tony Tubbs were pretty good also but they decided to clinch through the whole fight. Tucker almost pulled off a Douglas with a good shot late in the fight. Frank Bruno was a pretty good heavyweight, and even though he wasn’t afraid to take punches normally but Tyson had him totally psyched. Once he had signed with Don King and was fighting his hand picked opponents you can bet those guys weren’t coming into the ring in top condition.
Tyson snorted? I musta missed that. I know he had LOTS of personal problems, many of them revolving around his apparent lack of self-control. As several posters have reminded me he also wasn’t really the same after his beloved trainer Cus D’Amato died. I seem to remember Mike Tyson himself saying that things would never be the same for him after that. Combine that with his whirlwind (and not exactly fairy tale) marriage to Robin Givens and Buster Douglas caught “Iron” Mike at just the right time before fading into absolute obscurity.
One thing I hate about boxing is that it seems that fighters show up unready to compete or significantly less motivated more often than in other sports. Tyson underestimated Douglas and didn’t seem to go in with a game plan. Douglas, on the other hand, was an immensely talented heavyweight who was unmotivated in fights more often than not. That night, Douglas brought his A game and demonstrated what kind of fighter he could have been. Then he returned to form in his very next fight against Holyfield.
Tyson, for his part, went from one of the best fighters of all time to mediocre almost overnight when he fired Kevin Rooney. Once Rooney was gone, Tyson became a one punch knockout fighter and stopped moving in the ring. Every single fight he won after Rooney was fired he won because the other fighter either feared him or was a stationary target. Anyone who stood up to him after that and met a certain talent threshold beat him.
" ‘I’d be sitting down and drinking and doing cocaine, talking to girls, doing anything. Everything,’ said Tyson. ‘Then I make it home and I’m tripping out at home.’ "
Rickjay - I read the comments on the video link. Way too many pathetic fools are going to their grave shrieking “long count” and also pretty much forgetting the roughly 75 stupid things he did afterward that would’ve made it completely moot even if he’d won. Damn depressing. (I expect YouTube jerkishness. I was not prepared for YouTube Bizarro World-ing.)
Probably Michael Spinks. Sure, he was a blown-up light heavyweight, but he was a legit HOF fighter.
One of the things that pisses me off about that era is that it wasn’t as if there weren’t good fighters for Tyson to hook up with. They just avoided him. Riddick Bowe was only a year younger than Tyson and pretty much as soon as Tyson faded from the scene, Bowe took a championship fight with Holyfield. Tyson came back and Bowe busied himself with other things. Lennox Lewis was actually a year older than Tyson and didn’t face Tyson until Tyson was good and finished as a fighter. And Lewis never fought Bowe. Ray Mercer was also in his prime during Tyson’s best run and it never happened.
All three of those guys, heck I’ll throw Foreman in there too, all four of those guys would have made for great challenges for Tyson while he was fighting guys like Carl Williams and Frank Bruno.
Sure, as a light heavyweight. But his cred as a heavyweight is based on questionable decisions against an old Larry Holmes and a win over an out of shape minor contender in Gerry “Loony” Cooney.
Bowe ducked Lewis professionally - memorably throwing the WBC belt in the trash rather than fight him.
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/15/sports/boxing-bowe-trashes-his-wbc-title-belt.html
Lewis can hardly be blamed for the fact that Bowe was chicken-shit.
The one thing I remember about Tyson-Douglas: the crowd was dead. At most title fights, especially in Vegas, you get an ongoing crowd “noise” pretty much throughout the fight, but this fight was in Japan, IIRC, and the crowd there reacted differently - and I have a feeling that affected Tyson, who wasn’t able to feed off of the crowd.
Fighters rarely dodge each other because they are chicken. After all, Bowe had three wars with Evander Holyfield, and had a rematch with the guy who hit him in the nuts several times. I don’t doubt Bowe’s courage.
The weird thing about boxing is that it’s the only sport where if two guys hate each other, they WON’T fight.
In the case of Tyson, I don’t think it was dislike for the man so much as whenever a boxer takes a fight he isn’t sure he can win, there has to be an upside. I just think that for a lot of up and coming fighters, there was too much risk and too little reward in a Tyson fight. So instead Tyson drew the has beens and somewhat promising fighters. Even in the case of Holyfield, Holyfield was widely considered to be no longer in his prime and was given little chance of beating Tyson in their first fight. The only “big” fight Tyson ever had in his prime was with Spinks, and Spinks apparently didn’t feel he had anything else to accomplish as a heavyweight, or a fighter, period.
I read that Tyson was horribly unprepared for the fight–he had ballooned up to 30 pounds above fighting weight, and then went on a crash diet to lose the weight before the fight. I’m not sure how much of this is a post hoc justification, though; I’m not an expert on pre-fight preparations.