Over in the Jack Chick thread we saw a big old lump of ignorance named Vanilla come lumbering in, declaring that she believed that the Harry Potter books were “designed to teach kids witchcraft”, and as such would not allow her kids to read them. Then then saying that she agreed with Jack Chick’s take on the Christian religion.
When asked about defending this statement, Vanilla said that the Harry Potter books made it seem like it was OK to lie. WTF?? Who asked you about that?
Finally, after further prodding, Vanilla made the statement that “Christians believe that working magic is evil”. After this she admitted to never having read Narnia, a very magical series, which is considered the best Christian’s children’s series ever.
Willful ignorance makes me angry. Hearing people say that they agree with Jack Chick makes me angry. People randomly objecting to a wonderful work of children’s literature on knee-jerk pseudoreligious grounds makes me angry. Vanilla makes me angry.
If this was in some way accessible to Vanilla’s kids, that might be a good point. As it is, I feel really sorry for her kids, considering all of the things that will probably be denied to them, starting with Harry Potter. How much do you think their little friends talk about Harry Potter, and how excited they probably are about the movie. Vanilla’s kids won’t be able to take part in the discussions. They will know that their friends haven’t become evil witchcraft types :rolleyes:, and yet they still aren’t allowed to read these books. All due to the fact that their mom is, ready? AN IGNORANT BITCH. Thanks.
She’s the biggest bitch in the whole wide world
She’s a stupid bitch if there ever was a bitch
She’s a bitch to all the boys and girls
On Monday she’s a bitch
On Tuesday she’s a bitch
On Wednsday through Saturday she’s a bitch
Then on Sunday, just to be different, she’s a superkinkamayamayabeeatch
See, this is something that pisses me off. When we talk about censorship, the response is always, “Concerned parents should choose for themselves what their kids read, instead of forcing their choices on libraries.” And that’s true.
But then when some actually does decide what their kids read, they get blasted for it, too. That’s right, Lucky, in your infinite teenaged wisdom, you definitely should be the one deciding what someone else’s kids are allowed to read.
And the Harry Potter books do have some pro-lying and disobedience themes. The kids break a bunch of rules and get away with it; are, in fact, rewarded for it. It’s not anything I would consider dangerous, but if a parent says they don’t want their kids reading it, well, it’s their damn kid, and their decision. Not yours.
Lastly, post a fucking link. I saw that thread, and if I remember correctly you are misrepresenting some of what vanilla said.
–John
Huh? You’re not allowed to call a woman a bitch if she has children? WTF??? Why should reproductive status prohibit what you call someone? Only childless women can be called bitches all of a sudden, I don’t blinkin’ think so! If someone is an unpleasant person having kids doesn’t unbitchtyfy them overnight!
(and I am neutral on this particualar argument, I have no idea if Vanilla is a bitch or not as I don’t know her, although her reasoning is somewhat bizarre. Thankyou.)
I don’t think there is anything wrong with a parent censoring their child’s reading material,if (and it’s a big if) they know what they are talking about, and don’t jump on a bandwagon with a bunch of other ignorant skeptics.I have a pretty liberal view when it comes to what my kids read,figuring that even if they read trash now it may give them a lifelong love of reading.I have personally read all the Harry Potter books (started the first one to see what all the hoopla was about and got hooked), a smattering of Goosebumps and my youngest childs favorite; Captain Underpants.Sure I would love to see them read a few more of the classics (Harry Potter notwithstanding,I’m sure it’s a classic already)As long as they read age appropriate books,I will allow them to read whatever they enjoy,but I will always be aware of what they are reading by either skimming or reading all of their material.If the day comes when they bring home a book I deem contrary to our morals I will censor it. That’s my job as a parent.I will explain to them what I find objectionable and why.Just because everyone else is reading it doesn’t make a good argument in my opinion.When my daughter was ten she would argue endlessly with me because she wanted to watch South Park, saying all her friends watched it. Too bad.I know it’s a cartoon, that doesn’t make it for kids(I happen to like the show).I do not agree with Vanilla’s opinion at all,but IMHO if the books go against her moral belief she has every right to censor what her children are reading.
I would have loved a link too, as I have a question before I saw whether Vanilla is ignorant.
Has she read any of the Harry Potter books? If not, I really don’t like people who will tell you what something is “about” when they have no first-hand information. Don’t tell me what Harry Potter promotes or doesn’t promote based on what you heard on a talk-radio station or from someone at work. In order to make really informed decisions as a parent, you need to understand what you are censoring (or not censoring, as the case may be). That means reading what your kids read, watching what your kids watch.
Fight ignorance. Educate yourself. Don’t rely on others to do your thinking and decision-making for you.
She DID say the “statement of faith” on his webpage: http://www.chick.com/information/general/statementoffaith.asp
was something she would agree with, but in the context of saying that it was a broad statement that all Christians would probably agree with. Looking at it, I would say that not all but most Christians would; it’s pretty generic… God in Three person, blah blah blah, only begotten son and so forth, eternal reward yada yada.
Ignorance is to be fought, even when it isn’t forced upon people. Ignorant opinions should be challenged, even when there is no censorship issue involved.
Originally posted by Yue Han
See, this is something that pisses me off. When we talk about censorship, the response is always, “Concerned parents should choose for themselves what their kids read, instead of forcing their choices on libraries.” And that’s true.
But then when some actually does decide what their kids read, they get blasted for it, too.
What ignorant opinions are there in what she said?
She think Harry Potter has some themes that are pro-disobedience and lying. It does. You may not feel that they are serious enough to warrant her decision, but it ain’t your kid, and ‘serious enough’ isn’t the sort of thing you can cite. It’s a personal value judgement.
She believes witchcraft is dangerous and evil. Now, and this is going to be a sticking point, it is not ignorant to believe that. Vanilla has been in discussions about paganism before. It’s not that she doesn’t know what pagans believe they’re doing in witchcraft; she thinks they’re wrong, just as they think she’s wrong about Jesus Christ being the only way to heaven. There’s a difference between ignorance and an unpopular (even possibly offensive) opinion. You cannot produce a cite to prove that Wiccans aren’t unknowingly contacting evil spirits.
She believes the Potter books encourage interest in witchcraft. How could you possibly know this for sure? You’d have to wait until after the fact to see if, as adults, kids who read HP got involved in Wicca. So she made a personal value judgement. It’s not the sort of thing where you can have a right/wrong answer.
seems that Lucky Charms may be the bitch after all - you definately mischaracterized Vanilla’s statements. Why not give us the full context? I see that Yue Han had to give us the link too.
JFTR, I have read the Harry Potter books with my son, and I think they’re great. But please, please don’t make it sound like the end of the world for a child if they don’t get to read this particular book. I don’t agree with the choice that there is anything too dangerous about this book, but that is her choice, and based on her own criteria of what is suitable.
You better check your own attitude, and lessee, exactly how many years have you been a parent? (Or out of school, for that matter).