PLD, I have a serious question, because I respect you as a poster, and your stated reasons for your dietary habits have been explained rationally. [Not that you have to explain them to me or anybody else :)] More power to ya. So my question is, if someone has such a strong moral/ethical/religious reason to not consume animal products, why would they patronize the local Mickey D’s? Isn’t McDonalds the anthesis of what they believe in? Globalist, Capitalist, rain-forest raping, animal-murdering thugs? Why would such a person by french fries there, or even a Coke? The $ spent still goes into their coffers, presumably to kill more cows, chickens, pigs, etc. It seems a little inconsistent at best, and hypocritcal at worst.
Because, in all honesty, sometimes it’s convenient. If you’re out on the road, especially on a long trip, and don’t have anywhere obvious to stop that’s vegetarian friendly, you can always grab some fries and a Coke. (BK will serve a “Veggie Whopper,” which is basically a Whopper with no meat.) Sometimes you have to bow to pragmatism–when you’re hungry, you gotta eat!
The landscape, fortunately or unfortunately, is not exactly peppered with vegetarian-friendly restaurants, but there’s fast food as far as the eye can see. There have been times where, in a hurry, I’ve gone through the McD’s drive-thru and grabbed some fries to snack on, so this kinda pissed me of. If the things are prepped with beef fat, just say so! I’m not a member of the leftist WTEo-protesting-hemp-wearing-Starbucks-trashing crowd anyway, so I see it as akin to TIME magazine printing stories critical of Big Tobacco while running cigarette ads. I can buy fries and still criticize the corporation.
Besides, I neither want nor expect everyone else in the world to become a vegetarian. My gripe with McDonald’s (and a lot of vegetarians share the same opinion) is that they won’t use their market position to put pressure on their supplier to adopt more humane farming practices. After a ton of pressure from PETA and other groups, they finally agreed to do so with their chicken suppliers, though.
What really rips me is that McD’s franchises overseas cater to vegetarians; they sell a real honest-to-goodness veggie burger in Europe, they sell falafel sandwiches in the Middle East, and even in Hawaii they sell rice. There’s a market for that here–maybe not as big as they’d like, but bigger than they think. A few months of market research would tell them that.
Well, parts of Europe anyway (excluding Spain, for one). They are unfortunately quite unpleasant. However, Burger King over here sells not one but two vegetarian burgers, and the Veggie Whopper (which is an actual veggie burger here, not just a Whopper minus the meat) is very good. I don’t eat at BK very often anyway but there are times when you just have to and it’s nice to have something more than fries to eat.
I do seem to remember hearing that BK was introducing its beanburger into selected US markets - can anyone confirm?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ruadh *
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Burger King has had veggie burgers for about half a year or so in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada. They sell quite well.
Harveys, another Canadian burger chain, and Swiss Chalet, an affiliated chicken chain, have both been selling veggie burgers for a couple of years, again doing quite well.
My doctor told me about this several years ago, but I can’t find a good medical website right now. I remember that it was discussed in the “health” section of tabletalk.salon.com, but I can’t find the thread now either. Anyway, it happened to me once when I ordered something with beef at a Mexican restaraunt because there weren’t any veggie dishes on the menu and I got really sick. I know some other people who have been able to go from vegetarians back to meat-eaters without any problems, though.
The main reason why I am vegetarian is that I don’t like meat. As kid I was the epitome of a “picky eater”, and I hated almost everything my parents served me. One day I realized why I was so opposed to my childhood diet- it was all based on meat and I simply did not like any of it. I hate its texture. I hate the fat and grisle and disgustingness of it all. I hate the idea of chomping down on somethings veins. And I hate the concept of fueling my body on dead animals. Then, one day, I realized “Hey! I don’t have to eat meat”. And I never did again. It was one of the best ideas I ever had.
I enjoy a lot of the side benefits to vegetarians. Food is cheaper, keeps longer and cooking is less dangerous. I spend less time agonizeing over menus at restraunts. I have a good reason to refuse dishes that I don’t like when I am eating with company. I get sick less often, and have more energy. I gain “brownie points” when among devout Hindus and Seventh Day Adventists. I piss off rednecks. I have one aspect of my life that I can control. I wierd out my mom. My cookbooks are thinner. There are all kind of random assorted good things that vegetarianism can bring.
My main problems with meat stem from actually putting it in my body. That is why I have no problem with my leather shoes. While I do have some reservations about the ethics of killing things with neural systems, those are all secondary. And I figure a pair of shoes a year is nothing like the vast waste of three meat based meals a day. I do, however, get creeped out by large expanses of dead animal, like on leather couches.
I know this isn’t exactly a rational and coherent ethical system, but few people’s are. My main goal is to avoid doing things that bother me, and do that things that don’t. I am not trying to forge a new religion here, I am simply finding the best way for me to live my life. My vegetarism is less an esoteric system of values than a pragmatic system for living. That is why it doesn’t affet me when you point out all the ways that vegetarianism is inconsistant.
Y’all DO know that McDonald’s has salads, right?
In my experience, most fast food salads have bacon bits on them.
Yeah, and I used to think that they had fries cooked in vegetable oil. Turns out I was wrong.
As far as salad goes, there are salads, and then there are SALADS. The salads at McD’s and most other fast food outlets are extremely low on protein, and usually what protein there is is in the form of cheese, which is out for vegans. In short, little more than rabbit food. A three bean salad or some such protein balanced salad would be more appropriate for veggies.
As society becomes more health conscious, the fast food outlets will follow, and similarly, as more folk begin to enjoy non-meat based meals, the fast food outlets will follow. As you have seen in this thread, some are starting already. Will McD’s follow, or will it stay with its present formula? It is entirely up to it, but if it wants my money, it will have to keep up with its competitors.
I’ll be living out of a suitcase for the next few days. While out of town, I’ll be eating in restaurants, and running up a fair tab. I’ll be in northern Ontario communities which compete for tourists (Kenora, Dryden, Marathon, Manitouwadge). Most folks up here are both heavy meat eaters and heavy smokers. I am a non-smoking veggie.
Without getting into the ethics, lets take a quick look at the economics. My dollars and the dollars of the proportionately few veggies in the region are important to the restauranteurs and hoteliers. This is not a region where there are so many tourists that the service industry can afford to turn people away. Some operators are smart enough to offer one or two good veggie selections on their menus, and a few non-smoking rooms in their hotels. Others are not so bright, and simply cater to the majority. When I roll through town, who do you think will get my money? There is a competitive advantage to outfits willing to service veggies in addition to their regular clients.
Some fast-food places, like Wendy’s and Carl’s Jr, have all-you-can-eat salad bars.
For one thing, there are a lot of vegetarians who, believe it or not, don’t like salads. (I’m not one of them, but there you go.) More importantly, though, if I’m trying to grab something and eat on the run, a salad is awfully hard to eat with one hand while driving.
I guess you could get a bean burrito from Taco Bell.
Personally I’d rather eat Drano Crystals.
Muffin wrote:
McDonalds’s fries are cooked in vegetable oil. They have been now for over a decade. It just happens to be partially hydrogenated vegetable oil (i.e. melted shortening), and they sprinkle some kind of beef-based seasoning on the fries after they’re done cooking them.
I was a vegetarian for about seven years. I started because a friend of mine gave me the economic inefficiency argument (which has been debunked to some extent here). Plus, at the time, I was really having a problem with the way raw meat looked and smelled. It made me nauseous. Also, I was interested in the health benefits. And, the U.S. diet is so protein heavy I thought it set a bad example to developing countries.
Over time, I learned more about the meat industry in the U.S., the problems it causes our environment (especially the huge hog farms), and the creepy effects of hormones used on the animals. Granted, I’m not sure those hormones have been specifically linked in studies to consumers, but they have been linked to problems with people who live on the farms that use the stuff. I didn’t care whether anyone else became a vegetarian, I just figured it was good to reduce the demand for it by one person.
I stopped when I got pregnant only because I got really tired, and it is just plain easier to eat meat (throw a chicken breast in the oven) than to eat many veggie dishes–less prep time. I do only eat meat from animals that some reputable dealer represents have not been treated with hormones–same with milk and eggs.
The weird thing for me is that I had no digestive issues whatsoever. Perhaps it’s my hearty peasant metabolism.
A salad is not a meal.
Thank you, and good night.
I beg to differ. My school used (sigh) to have a salad bar, and I towered on onions, peppers, cheese, ham cubes, dressing, crutons etc. and it sure was a good meal.
No, I’m not a vegetarian, but the best reason I have found is biological.
These figures are completely dictated from memory, so I have no cite (bloody GD) but I think it takes at least 10 pounds of grain to create one pound of beef. When people are starving in the world, it just doesn’t make sense to add in one more level in the food chain to waste precious energy on. The food would be better used to feed ten people bread than one person beef.
That said, I try to abstain from excessive meat eating, but I enjoy a burger once in a while.
Personally, I would have no problem with my body nourishing someone else after I die, so eating flesh doesn’t disgust me. Yes, unnecessary pain disgusts me.
-Soup
Sorry, ruadh.
Sorry about the mis-name.
Note to self: check spelling of quoted person’s name.
-Soup
The Witch wrote:
… although Dr. Robert C. Atkins might disagree with that assessment. 
Man cannot live on bread alone. There are nutrients that you cannot get without meat.