I’m a meat eater, and I’ve gone years at a time without going to McDonalds. They don’t have an obligation to meet your dietary needs. Moreover, they don’t need to meet your needs with something you find acceptable (i.e. not a salad). McDonald’s food may be gross for vegetarians, guess what - its gross for a lot of us meat eaters too.
About half my friends and family are vegetarians or vegans. I’ve cooked vegan Thanksgiving dinners (meat eaters, don’t ask, but no tofuky involved). They fall in two camps. And you can tell immediately if you have them over for a BBQ. The first kind will show up with a cooler with tofu dogs and Morningstar Farms burgers “just in case you forgot we don’t eat meat.” The second will show up hungry, then complain loudly if you don’t have vegetarian alternatives - and moreover, their perferred vegetarian alternatives “oh, I don’t like those veggie burgers, we only use such and such brand.” (It helps if such and such brand can only be found at one little co-op on the far end of town). The first kind we invite over all the time, the second, only when obligated.
Some of you guys are kind of sounding like the second.
Vitamin B12 is about the only thing which vegans have to keep an eye on over the years, but there are non-animal sources for it (such as some yeasts, cereals, and fortified soy foods).
Seems that bacteria in our upper intestine produces it but does not absorb it, but our lower intestine absorbs some of it, so we can go for years before running out, but eventually have to restock.
Well, I’m back from a 2,000 km drive through the south-western end of northern Ontario (carnivore country). Lots of veggie and vegan fare to be had, and a couple of non-smoking rooms in restaurants to boot. One place even had the first section on their menu reserved for veggie entrees. This would not have happened a few years back. Note that McD’s was not one of these places, but BK was. Times are a changin’, and if McD’s wants to keep up, it will have to do a little changing as well.
Like I said, I used to think that McDonalds had fries cooked in vegetable oil. Turns out I was wrong.
There is a world of difference between vegetable oil and partially hydrogenated vegetable oil followed with beef-based seasoning.
I’m not about to argue semantics with some guy in a clown suit. Having been misled, I just spend elsewhere now. Will it make a difference? Individually, of course not, but collectively it might, thus the move toward veggie friendly offereings in both conventional and fast food restaurants. Could I care if McD’s ever gets up to speed on this? Not at all.
I don’t ask that any resaurant cater to my requirements. All I ask is that I be able to learn what is in the food I am purchasing and eating, so that I can make an informed choice, and then take my dollars where my requirements are met. McD’s misled me, so despite their now for the most part posting what is in their fare, I still do not return despite their having some items which meet my requirements. It’s no more than basic customer relations: do not mislead customers and then expect them to return.
I used to date a vegan chef when I lived at the other end of the province. Eating out was always exciting, for rather than simply make a reservation a few hours early and ordering of the menu, she would speak with the restaurant’s chef about a week and a half in advance and then plot with the chef for the next couple of days.
Come meal time, we’d be welcomed into the kitchen and spend the next hour or two trading techniques and recipes before actually getting down to eating (which more often than not would take place at the end of the evening with the chef and sous chef eating with us). Such wonderful, creative meals we had at these culinary jam sessions!
The chefs were always interested to learn about vegan cooking, and at several places we found veggie and vegan offerings on their menus upon later visits. What good times those were.
I’m vegetarian almost entirely for the enviro reasons. From what I’ve learned in school, meat rearing is not healthily sustainable at present consumption levels. It takes waaay too many resources to produce meat, and eating vegetables is more sustainable. I live in a huge agricultural region, and the effects of dairy waste on our water supplies is pretty bad (and really gross to think about). I should note I haven’t lost a single pound since becoming vegetarian…probably because I still eat cheese, though I drink soymilk instead of real milk (it’s actually a lot better tasting). It was really easy for me, because my family is Indian and most of our food is vegetables anyway. And it does help me score points with older, superreligious people and hot vegetarian guys. I can definitely see where suspicious people are coming from–I know lots of pseudo-vegetarians who think fish and chicken are vegetables, or who are vegetarian unless they stop at McDonalds, where they get BigMacs.
There are people who call themselves vegetarian who still eat chicken and/or fish. However, there is no vegetarian society that I am aware of that allows this definition of “vegetarian”.
Eating cheese and eggs is perfectly acceptable, though, since neither is an actual dead animal. People who eat these are called “lacto-ovo vegetarians”.
I think you are taking this McDonald’s thing from the wrong perspective. I don’t think McDonalds was trying to claim their fries weren’t made with any animal products. IIRC, about the time the whole good cholestrol/bad cholestrol thing hit, McD’s was taking a hard hit for their food being unhealthy (which it was, and it still is). I don’t remember if their fries were actually fried in lard, or if the perception amongst the public was they were fried in lard, but the “vegetable oil” thing was to contrast against frying in lard. i.e. “one fry won’t block your arteries” not “McD’s fries are vegetarian friendly.”
And you aren’t arguing sematics with some guy in a clown suit, you are arguing them with us - and they ARE cooked in vegetable oil - the type of vegetable oil or the fact that they then season them with non-veggie friendly seasoning don’t make the “vegetable oil” statement untrue.
Hold your horses there. Most cheese contains renet - an animal product. Strict vegetarians will avoid this.
You can buy vegetarian cheese without renet, but a random cheese sandwich offered by a shop or a well-meaning friend has a good chance of being non-vegetarian. Many veggies therefore tell people that they don’t eat cheese to avoid this situation.
I have no idea where you guys are getting your McDonald’s information from. Beef flavoring on french fries?
Last time I checked, fries ingredients were potatoes, sugar, and probably a preservative of some kind (BHT, methinks). I don’t recall wether or not the vegetable oil was partially hydrogenated or not, but I can’t see why it would be. Hydrogenation is used to thicken vegetable oil to be a solid at room temperature, or maybe a semi-solid. No reason for that in McD’s case, though I do remember some solids in the bottom of the grease containers so it is possible. I am not aware that the hydrogenation process involves animals.
The salt they use for the fries is just plain old iodized salt.
I knew quite a few vegetarians who ate at McDonalds without a qualm in their minds (while working there), they just avoided the beef and some of the stricter veggies avoided the cheese.
As far as Taco Bell goes, an employee may want to freshen my memory but I seem to remember that the bean paste has some animal product in it. Or not. That is, I remember someone told me it did, and I was working there at the time. So, like a good boy, I read the ingredients. I don’t remember what I found
Some of us, believe it or not, read these things called “newspapers.”
May 26, 2001, Saturday
National Briefing | Northwest: Washington: About Those Beef-Flavored Fries
By Laurie Goodstein (NYT)
Source: The New York Times
Section: National Desk
113 words
Abstract
washington: about those beef-flavored fries**McDonald’s posts apology on its Web site for any confusion it may have caused by not telling its customers that its french fries contain beef flavoring; McDonald’s is subject of lawsuit on behalf of a vegetarian and two Hindus who claim company intentionally misled customers by announcing that fries were cooked in 100 percent vegetable oil (S)
May 20, 2001, Sunday
For Hindus and Vegetarians, Surprise in McDonald’s Fries
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Source: The New York Times
Section: National Desk
1379 words
Abstract
American Hindus and vegetarians are suing McDonald’s, charging it deliberately misled American customers by advertising that its French fries are cooked in vegetable oil, while failing to disclose that fries are seasoned with beef flavoring; plaintiff Brij Sharma comments, interview; news spurred rioting in India and drop in sales in Fiji until tests proved chain does not use animal extracts in fries there; chain says it never claimed fries sold in United States were vegetarian; weighs labeling change, but says it will not alter recipe.
You also have to eat a LOT of vegetables to get enough protein. Cecil said so:
Please note that people who are neither vegetarians nor vegans are NOT saying “Never eat fruits and vegetables;” no rational person would advocate being a strict carnivore. What we advocate is being an omnivore; a reasonable diet would be about one-quarter meat, mostly white. The occaisional steak is fine. These days, what meat I have is mostly chicken and turkey and some fish. (I’d eat more fish if it wasn’t so expensive.)
