It’s really not ironic at all, since I’m only talking about what I expect from a meal I cook for MYSELF. I would not demand as a guest that anyone make that accomodation for me. I would (and have) simply declined to eat at all if there are no meat dishes offered.
It’s times like this, when I have a slow day at work and the SDMB search function is feeling charitable, that I really love the Dope.
Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic in this thread:
I await your customary explanation of how it’s different when you do it.
Lasagna. Cheese pizza with fresh mozzarella. Black bean burritos. None of these would please you? Then YOU are the one with the ridiculous, weird diet, not me.
Oh, why bring RAPE into this? Seriously. I couldn’t kill an animal. I don’t even kill bugs. Therefore, I won’t eat anything I couldn’t kill myself. I don’t think it’s unethical for you to do it, if you feel OK about it, because I recognize that this aversion is particular to me. I don’t even THINK about what you or anyone else does. Maybe that’s your problem-- you are far too concerned about what everyone else thinks of what you do, and that somehow we are finding you ethically wanting. And you put a lot of energy in pointing out what you perceive to be other people’s ethical inconsistencies, while simultaneously and hypocritically accusing THEM of judging YOU. I don’t care about other people’s internal ethical paradigms. I follow my own moral compass and realize that it’s personal to me, thus do not seek to inflict it on others or judge others by it. I think it’s a waste of energy.
You only, exclusively eat meat that is organic, or that you killed yourself via hunting and fishing? That means no eating out in restaurants, I presume, no eating at other people’s homes, because that meat could be from factory farms. Yeah, sure…
I’ll get over myself the instant after you get over yourself and not one second sooner. Consequently, I think I have plenty of time not to be over myself, so it’s a good deal for me.
Seriously? You would only eat food at a dinner party if there was meat served? Do you require meat in all dishes, or would you just skip eating even traditionally non meat dishes like salads as a protest for not having a main meat course?
I like to cook, and enjoy inviting people over for dinner. Most everything I prepare is vegan, but so far, no one has turned down an invite because I don’t provide lots of meat.
I didn’t get back to this in time, and geezermom67 beat me to the – really very obvious – answer. On the one hand, you take grain (energy) and put it into me. I am an inefficient machine, but I burn the grain wel enough and use it to fuel activities like posting on the Dope. On the other, you take the grain, put it into one inefficient machine (a cow), then disassemble the cow and put the parts into another inefficient machine (me). How on earth can that possibly be more efficient than eating grain? Where does the free energy come from?
Also, as as bee pointed out, grain has protein. So do legumes. Both of these can be grown in the ground that now has cows trampling over it.
ETA:
This is, of course, quite wrong. There’s this place you may have heard of, called India.
Really? I’m married to an Indian. My inlaws most certainly do not have “loose standards”. I’m beginning to think that your social circle does not represent a fair cross-section of … well, of any group, really.
How it’s different when I do what? I don’t see what you think this contradicts about anything I’ve said in this thread.
All of these (and my idea - chili) can be easily made as one meal right up to the point where I separate them into two pans and throw meat in or on one of them. It’s not as much trouble as some might like to think.
You think they’re going out on the patio to smoke, but it’s really to break out the beek jerkey they’ve smuggled along.
Ooh, outright denial of the contradiction.
<Checks score card>
I think I’ve got bingo!
You absolutely correct I can eat meat what I cannot do is digest meat. I haven’t been able to since infancy long before I knew the difference between meat and Vegetables, so it is not “In my head”. It has been confirmed by more than a dozen doctors over the last 50 years.
My brother is allergic to strawberries and does not eat them. The difference is
- He is not called a picky eater and a baby.
- He doesn’t have people telling him it’s all in his head.
- He has never had people try to sneak strawberries into his meals and laugh about it.
- He has never been told not eating them is a sin against god and he’s going to Hell.
- My mother did not have to get a court order to make the school stop trying to force feed them to him.
You just say Bingo. 
I would not fimd them satisfying. Eating stuff like that is like drinking non-alcoholic beer.
To make a point about ethical values.
Once again, this ijs a logical contradiction. Either you think the act is unethical or you don’t. It doesn’t matter what the pesron committing the act thinks about it.
I don’t care either. I was not the one to bring this point into the discussion. I was just pointing out that the veggies’ response to the point has not been especially logical. What I really think is not that you’re judging people as unethical for eating meat, but that you don’t really feel all that strongly about the ethics in the first place.
Sometimes restaurants can’t be avoided, but I really do only buy organic meat,a nd I hardly ever go out.
I honestly have no idea what contradiction you’re talking about. If you want me to respond, please be specific.
I think I’d need to know more about why they feel this is not a contradiction before I would judge their actions. For me, there are a number of factors involved, all of which combine to create, as **Rubystreak **has mentioned, my own personal moral compass. I can’t expect everyone to have the exact same combination, so it would be hard to judge them the same.
For example, Boy from Mars is a meat eater, and yet he’s watched programmes on TV where someone kills an animal they have raised , and we’ve discussed how neither of us could do that. And yet, he eats meat. I think this is based on several factors. He’s Italian, and some of what he eats is based on strong cultural connections to a homeland which he has pretty much left behind. He loves meat, and I suspect rarely thinks about where it has actually come from. I think this would be fairly common.
But for someone who was identical in beliefs to me, and who had thought it through, and read about the issue as much - and still ate meat? Yeah, I guess I would wonder how they rationalised this to themselves. That’s not to say that i believe that of every meat eater.
And as **Rubystreak **also said, most of us don’t spend our time worrying that much about why other people make those choices - it’s hard enough deciding how I feel about the issue and trying to live to those beliefs without getting strung up what other people do.
That’s why they don’t try to get oil from, say, corn.
Awfully temperamental, aren’t you? It’s all in your head.
Observant Jews think it’s unethical for them to eat pork, but they don’t care if you eat it. Why? Because they have separate ethics for themselves and other people. If you can wrap your head around this concept, then you can understand how I can think something is wrong for me and not for you. Would I prefer if you agreed with me and adopted my lifestyle? Sure, but if you don’t, I don’t care much either way. It’s not important to me what you do.
I feel very strongly about my own behavior, and feel very little about everyone else’s. You can try to tell me what I feel, but you’d be totally wrong, and very presumptuous.
So you’re not morally consistent either. Good. I’m relieved to find that you’re not perfect after all.
Given that wheat is about 12% protein and 2% fat, I’d have to say you’re a bit off.
Best to stop insisting reality conform to your biases, Dio.
Beat me to it. From the Wikipedia entry on wheat:
huh
I wonder why my Arborio rice lists 3g protein per 45g serving, then.
I wonder why my pasta lists 6g protein and 1g fat per 56g serving.
Dio, you should prolly ring up the FDA and let them know about the naked deceit happening on their watch! Chop chop!
I already debunked this upthread.The reason observant Jews do not believe that gentiles have to be kosher is because gentiles don’t have a covenant to be kosher. Jewish law only applies to Jews. Jews do not believe that eating pork is unethical per se. They think it’s unethical to break their covenant.
This is not comparable to ethical vegetarianism because vegetarians do not believe they have some special agreement with God which only applies to them. They think the act of killing animals per se is unethical.
People need to quit trying to raise this as a rebuttal. It’s not valid.