Wrote CnoteChris:
I don’t question it because it’s none of my fucking business.
It’s not my board. They didn’t charge me to register. I don’t have to pay to post. I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. I don’t want to know what goes on behind the scenes. Because it’s none of my fucking business.
I really don’t understand why some people have a problem understanding this simple concept.
Fuck. Even I understand it.
As I’ve suspected for a while now… it really doesn’t matter.
Answer me this- Why the charade that it will be answered?
If you’re not going to answer a simple question like this (Repeatedly, no less) than at least let’s get the ground rules straight- it’s not a board to voice your opinions, it’s a board to voice your opinions within the ever changing standards of the moderators.
I’ve avoid any direct criticism of the moderators when it comes to bannings lately, mostly because I don’t have a huge problem with it.
But what I have a problem with, you partly address with that comment- I have a problem with a policy or a standard that can’t or isn’t addressed by those imposing them.
Seriously, why can’t we get a goddammed answer to any of this!?!
How the hell are we supposed to stay within the rules when the rules are ever changing and never explained?
No wonder people around here are scared. And no wonder people around here preface their crticism by stating, ‘I may be banned for this, but I’d like to say…’.
Pretty much my feeling.
I’ve never really given a damn about most bannings (Satan being the only recent one that bummed me out), and the reasons are usually identified and make a certain amount of sense, even if I don’t share the opinon.
However, I have been very troubled for awhile now about the whole “don’t be a jerk” rule…could a “rule” possibly ** be ** more vague and open to a thousand different interpretations? Theres a number of posters around here that have, in my opinion, ventured far beyond jerk and settled comfortably into “total asshole”, and hang out there on a nearly constant basis, yet they are not banned. So “jerk” is obviously defined very differently by different people.
This being the case, having a good understanding of what the * official * definition of jerk is would be helpful in avoiding being classified as one. My little post was sincere… if what we have seen before us in this thread was the trigger to ** warmgun’s ** banning, well, that’s alarming. I didn’t see anything even in the neighborhood of jerkiness, not only by my standard, but by any standard I’ve seen applied previously.
Since listing every jerky behavior that someone might engage in is tedious and probably impossible, it is * instructive * to point out the bannable errors of others, that we may avoid making them ourselves.
stoid
CnoteChris wrote:
What charade? The only people I see thinking that any “why was so-and-so banned?” question will be answered are those asking the questions. Not the Moderators.
What “ever changing standards?” How hard is “don’t be a jerk” to understand? Yes, that kind of rule does change with time, but usually a lot of time. For example, how long has it taken for “women are property” to be seen as the jerkiness it is? You’ve been registered here for eight months more than I have, and you’ve posted literally thousands more messages than I. What the heck is wrong with you that you cannot understand the way things work around here, or on any other responsibly-run message board that answers to people who pay (the owners) more than those who use (us)?
“So-and-so was being a jerk” should be the “answer” that is implicit in any banning. What is the problem with this? This is, as has been pointed out, a semi-private party that over 18,000 people have crashed. Odds are that you are one of them, as I am. The difference, as far as I can see, between you and me, is that I can see the spirit of the rule, while you’re busy looking up “jerk” and trying to figure out how it might apply to you.
Seriously, why do you need an answer different from that which has already been supplied?
“Don’t be a jerk” is explanation enough for me. Good grief. Try answering the question in my previous post: Does every possible method of “being a jerk” need to be spelled out in detail? In other words: do you need to know exactly how not to be a jerk, so that you won’t be one?
For some of us, it seems, not being a jerk comes naturally. We tend to stay far enough from the dividing line that its exact position in the message-board continuum is information we don’t require for our day-to-day postings.
Oh, good god, NOOOOO! Being banned from this message board will ruin my life! [/sarcasm]
Anybody who posts such dreck is such a newbie that they really need to go back to lurking for a few more months or years. I cannot properly express my utter contempt for such posts. This message board (and all of its forums) is devoted to fighting ignorance. If you admit you are ignorant about what will get you banned (“I may get banned for this…”), then go find the fucking answer or get the fuck out before you do, indeed, get banned. How difficult is this to understand?
Sigh… I’m going to start tossing around the “willfully ignorant” insult some more, soon.
Hell, as far as I’m concerned, you’re being a jerk. I’d bet that as far as you’re concerned, I am being a jerk. If the “I may be banned for this…” folks are correct, we’ll both be banned any minute now. I’m not going to hold my breath, since I’m fairly certain that there aren’t any bannings going on without lots of thought by those who have the ability to ban people. In other words, the idea that bannings are whimsical, or will happen based on any one reasonable post, is absurd, given what anyone can read about previous bannings.
Damn, these threads are annoying. Honestly, I think the only person in this entire thread so far who hasn’t annoyed me in some way is casdave. FlyingDragonFan comes in a close second. There are lots of people who’ve posted in this thread who, in my opinion, have been jerks. I only see the word “BANNED” under one poster’s name, though.
If I may, I think the point Cnote was trying to make is it’s easy to tell the really sweet posters and the really nasty ones, but once you start getting close to the middle, wouldn’t it be nice to know when to stop. As it’s been pointed out in this thread, ‘jerk-ness’ is subjective. What’s being a jerk to you, might not be the same for me. A person might cross that line and really not believe he/she did.
Let me ask you straight-up, do you think warmgun was being a jerk in this thread? He must’ve been, or he wouldn’t have been banned. But I wouldn’t have thought so, and so might have made that same mistake. And I don’t think WG thought he was being so - I’ve read his other posts, doesn’t strike me as the type in general.
And if so, do you think he was the ‘worst’? Now are you starting to see the confusion?
My assessment after considerable research:
Warmgun deserved banning after expressing an insubordinate attitude toward mod-admin authority.
The righteous indignation of posters on both sides of the issue is understandable.
Esprix did a tasteless thing with his warmgun post.
Esprix did a tasteful thing with his retraction.
John is one of the most level-headed youngsters I’ve ever seen.
I love this place. I love the mods and admins. When they make a decision, whether I agree with it or not, it is always the “right” one because they are the ones who decide what is right on this board.
Having said that, I’d like to add: Why in the hell can’t we question them? I didn’t see any mod-bashing in this thread, just legitimate questions. It does appear that from this thread that warmgun was banned because he pissed TV off. I do not believe this is the whole story because I do not believe the administrators of this board are that trigger-happy.
But I can understand why some posters were alarmed at the goings on here and why some expressed trepidation at wondering out loud. Some of the responses from other posters show that they were right to feel this way. Not because the admins will ban them for expressing concern, but because other dopers seem to want to bash their heads in for asking.
Well, the thing is, we can ask all the questions we want- and I agree that this is a pretty weird banning- but we aren’t likely to get answers, for the reasons I’ve posted more than once.
Like I said, though, this is kind of weird. The best I can figure is a behind the scenes kind of thing; warmgun was on pretty thin ice a while back, and part of his deal might have been not to do anything further to annoy the mods at all.
At any rate, darkcool quoted warmgun as saying in email:
So warmgun doesn’t want to discuss it. It’s possible the mods are keeping quiet to respect that, too.
–John
Thanks Hombre, you pretty much nailed my thoughts.
And that’s what it all boils down to… I’d like to stay and play in this sandbox. But for the life of me, I can’t understand why some people keep getting tossed out of it from time to time.
Some I understand, some I don’t… but that’s not the issue with me here, or before. All I’m asking here, is for an explanation.
Not because I’ll criticize it (Hell, maybe I will, maybe I won’t. If it’s clear and to the point, and it makes sense, then I won’t. But if I can’t figure it out, because it’s murky and far from clear, than I’ll argue about it. Not to be a jerk, but to try and understand it so I won’t cross that line in the future).
Tell me what he did that crossed the line, and I’ll guarantee you I’ll try not to cross that line myself. Don’t tell me, and I tell you, I’ll at some point cross it… who doesn’t, in a way?
I’m not ripping on the mods, nor am I ripping on their rules- I just want it straight… and I really don’t understand why people have problems with that.
What’s so bad about wanting it straight?
Listen, regardless of what you sought, darkcool ass got banned right after you stomped him a new mudhole. You have become more powerful than Darth Vader can possibly imagine. Without much exertion, you left him bleeding muttering “are-you-there-god-its-me-margaret.” A 
from you and there’s a banning. :rolleyes: may well rend the sidereal fabric of space-time continuum. Only kidding.
It seems after several mis-starts, mis-steps and so forth that a retraction has been posted by Esprix.
Why is this thread still here? No good can come from this. Do the next right thing Esprix and whack this thing.
restraint
Chris, WHO are you asking? The posters? We don’t know. All we can do is speculate, and we have been doing that.
The mods? They probably don’t know. Mods can’t ban people only admins, and they don’t have to discuss it with anyone.
The admins? Lynn probably doesn’t know. The only person who knows is TubaDiva, because Tuba banned him.
And last week in this thread:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=93443
Lynn said:
So who do you want to answer your questions???
It’s like running around saying, “Who was DB Cooper? I don’t know why everyone’s making a big deal about this, I just want to know who he was. Why won’t you tell me who he was? I’m not going to make any trouble, I just don’t see why you won’t answer my question.”
Most likely only DB Cooper knows who DB Cooper was, and only Tuba knows why Tuba banned warmgun, and neither of them are going to be coming around any time soon. Asking OVER and OVER and OVER is pointless.
–John
It seems after several mis-starts, mis-steps and so forth that a retraction has been posted by Esprix.
Why is this thread still here? No good can come from this. Do the next right thing Esprix and whack this thing (delete this thread).
He can’t. He can only ask for the thread to be closed. Normal posters like me and you and yes even the all powerful Esprix 
can’t edit or delete our posts/threads. Only Mods and Admins have the rights to do this. Threads are very rarely deleted here. The thinking being that all things can stay in the open and our resident :wally 's can’t start screamming about cover up’s etc *
Now get with the program or I’ll have you banned 
A couple of things happened since I posted earlier in this thread. The first (and most puzzling) is that I got overwhelmed with e-mails. I’ve been posting here quite a while and never got a one then - wham! My mailbox runneth over. The’re running 95% to 5% for.
I only expressed for you what some of you were feeling already. Brought it to the surface, so to speak.So thank you, really, but I’m no saint. I only offered up my own culpability. But I’m left feeling that this is a really good group of people here, and that’s nice.
I’ve also ‘spoken’ with WG again. I couldn’t help it. The guy’s an enigma. How could someone who got stomped like a narc at a biker ralley, who in my (ok, limited) experience is essentially on the books as the victim of the worst banning smack-down in SDMB history not be bitter? Rather, how could that kind of person be banned as a jerk? Well, I didn’t get many answers, but I have gained a new friend. And out of respect to both him and the gag order placed on him ( i.e. I don’t want to let him post through me [not that he wants to]) I won’t add much here til the higher ups seem to do so, but… - no nevermind…let me just say this, that I hope cool heads and fair play pre-vail.
Now, new stuff. What has been going on with this thread since I left? Wow. Lots of interesting thoughts being tossed around. Most distressing and disturbing to me is the one posted by Chaosopher calling for this thread to be deleted!
Got a beef with WarmGun, Chaos? Workin’ for the Man? This thread is allowing people to have the courage to trepidiously speak what’s on their mind. and you want it, not closed, but deleted? Yes, I am ROCK-SOLID in the newbie catagory, but where are you at 60 posts or so. And you think you know what’s best for these other posters who are having a meaningful (to some) dialog? You do remember that this is the place to fight ignorance don’t you?
Esprix, indeed, do the right thing. Let this thread play itself out. Don’t call for a close.
You can be sure the mods have got they’re eye on this one, they will do their job when it’s needed. Trust them, Chaos, they know what they are doing.
Oh, it wasn’t a question of trust and I don’t know wargun from wargum. I was speaking from a position of ignorance. I seemed like the thread was really about 2 ppl and one is gone and on most of the boards I frequent, the starter of the thread can close/delete it.
I just get an icky feeling about a thread regarding someone who isn’t present. Know what I mean?
At any rate, I have faith in the mods. And I certainly wasn’t calling for a ‘cover up’. Those men in black at the front door are from the telephone company after all. Go ahead and let them in. The only reason they are wearing dark sunglasses is because their offices are overly well lit.
Fair enough. And while I agree it’s generally not good form to let the OP drift this far off point, the fact that one person is gone prevents otherwise. I, in no way, presume to speak for anyone, much less the masses, my guess would be that there are posters here who were taking up the "WarGun"s cause. Being his voice, in a manner of speaking.
I understand your reluctance to talk about him as he’s not here to defend himself, but no one is bashing him and if they were to pick that up again I’m sure approriate measures would be taken.
Though I don’t have a stance on the mods or what they should and shouldn’t do, I am enjoying this thread. It’s sort of a ‘blood of patriots’ kind of thing. A shaking out. It’s healthy, IMHO.
And…what men in sunglasses? 
I’m sure you mean well, but if there is any chance of warmgun being re-instated, the association with phrases like WARgun, even as word-play, can’t be good for his cause.
William
“Ignorance is not fought with dogma” [sub]warmgun[/sub]
I’m assuming that was a typo and you meant warmgun.
I still maintain you’re making a causality where one doesn’t exist. If warmgun hadn’t chosen to provoke me there wouldn’t have been a reason to start this thread in the first place, and his response to me and/or TVeblen here is what caused his banning - please note both cases were actions of his own choosing. If I had the power to get someone banned by posting a thread about them I think a lot more people wouldn’t be banned by now. Yes, there have been a few people I’ve roasted here who ended up banned, but that has more to do with the fact that I observed their jerkish behavior and called them on it - their actions, not my observations, is what got them banned. You might just as easily say Fenris gets people banned by poking fun at them - a causality might exist, but it’s a false one.
As pointed out, the best I could do is make a request of the mods. I will leave it up to them to decide whether they close it, let it die, or post some kind of “official response” regarding warmgun’s banning before closing it.
Esprix
Hey, how about you read my post? I think that would make you look less ridiculous. Because I snipped every instance in this thread where there was, in fact, anti-mod hysteria. I even bolded it for you. I didn’t do anything to propagate the hysteria; I was simply saying that it’s a stupid waste of time.
It really helps when you read what people post.
You know what folks, it’s really not like BAM you’re banned! I think most of us have a pretty good idea what kind of standing we have here. For instance, I’m 100% sure that I haven’t done anything to get banned anytime soon.
Do a search of user names like Melin, Wildest Bill, JDT, and Satan and then you will understand what it takes to get banned here. If you’re still confused, e-mail a Mod.