warmgun, what the fuck is your damage?

The BBQ Pit
81

When you’re standing up there on the mountain spewing this stuff out, are you reading from stone tablets or do you just make this shit up as you go?

I honestly can’t believe you’re doing this. Speaking of causalities…
Provoked? Reason? I’ve seen you laugh off MUCH more than those petty little swipes. And you are choosing you’re own conveniant starting point. If…if…if…

YOU! Surely your not suggesting in responding to you he has to show the same respect he shows to a mod…are you? What in his reply to you could have gotten him banned?
Sarah, see my first post - I did read all those. And guess what?..WG just don’t fit the profile! Take your own advice.
Just to refresh your memory, regarding warmgun’s brush with the mods, here’s the Mod in question’s last words on the subject.

And after being called for sniping, her response to Zenster’s…<cough>…apology:

I dunno, sounds like they parted on good terms to me.

82

Sure I have. I didn’t this time. Whether or not I call someone out into the Pit every time they take a pot-shot at me is irrelevant to the fact that he did, indeed, take pot-shots at me, and instead of instantly roasting him or writing him off as a jackass, I decided to call him out and ask him up front (rather than start sniping back at him in like fashion). What would you have me do? I didn’t think my OP was particularly incindiary, and we all know it could have been much worse, particularly based on his post in the faux mod thread.

I most certainly am not suggesting he show me any more respect than he deems appropriate, because I am not a mod, nor do I have the power to get anyone banned. However, acting like a jerk, to a moderator or to any other poster, is, indeed, grounds for banning. Did what he say to me get him banned? No one knows for sure, and my guess is that by sniping at me and/or bringing up an old argument might have been annoying enough to the mods for them to consider that “being a jerk.” But I don’t know, and neither do you, so maybe what he said to me might have gotten him banned (i.e., “being a jerk”), or maybe it was what he said to Veb, or maybe Cecil himself decreed it to be so - until the moderator(s) responsible clears it up, it is pointless to jump to conclusions.

Esprix

83

I think you mis-understood me.
I wasn’t questioning your right to start a pit thread. I’ll stand behind you on that.
You stated in your resonse to me

You are 100% right - I have no idea what got him banned.

My guess would be it was something that happened in this thread.
But in response to Billy Baroo, you state with authority

See, you don’t know that.
It wouldn’t bother me to hear you say things such as ‘I don’t like him’ (for example). He’s banned - you’re not. It’s your right to keep posting what you like, as long as this thread is open. I’ll back you on that right, too. It just doesn’t seem apropriate to continue to build a case against him and keep calling him a bannable jerk (even in a back-handed way) until we the facts. He might know things your not telling us (not that you are under obligation to). But if there is going to be an argument, I’d like to here both sides.
That’s all I’m saying.

84

You condescending bitch. Your quotes were taken the fuck out of context. I know that because you quoted me, and what you called mod-bashin was actually a post about how the mods don’t ban people for sniping. Don’t accuse me of not reading people’s posts when you miss or purposely distort the entire fucking point of everyone else’s.

I’m not going to rebut every one of your magic contextless quotes, but let’s take a look at a few of them, shall we, asshole?

There is a difference between saying, I don’t think that was a good reason to ban him, and THE MODS ALL SUK!! You, however, seem to be a jackass and incapable of seeing that. Also, this individual (nice of you not to attribute any of your quotes either) is hoping that the mods were being reasonable, not saying that they weren’t.

Both these quotes were addressed to Esprix, who is not a mod. And although I like Esprix, I can definitely understand the perspective that it’s not nice to bash someone who can’t defend themselves.

Yes, it was silly for some people to suggest they would get banned for questioning the mods. But you know, if you didn’t know that warmgun was already on thin ice with the mods, this would look kind of arbitrary.

The only quote on that list that actually bashed the mods was darkcool’s:

I try not to get too into mud-slinging in the Pit these days, but I cannot fucking stand to be quoted out of context, be accused of exactly the reverse of a stance I have held in this thread and many others, and then be accused by the thickheaded shit who did it of poor reading comprehension.

Fuck off.

–John

85

Yes, it’s common courtesy if they ask. “Sorry people but I had to ask x to leave because so and so. Party on!” Besides the fact that the people kicked out might have friends there it who’d like t know the reasoning behind this to make a judgement, it shows that just because you are the host you don’t act on a whim. You have to respect the guests making the party a party. Kicking someone out because they said your shirt doesn’t match is not fine (not saying this is the case but what is the case here anyway???).

That is a big strech. It’s not possible to know this without experience it first-hand or word of mouth, which is not the norm for new posters who just land here.

The only big deal about these threads is the secretism of the administration and the fact that they don’t come right out and say the reasons for a bannning. Why NOT give it? It will make the don’t be a jerk rule a little less murkier at least.

I consider it normal that users wish to know the motives for bannings (for obvious reasons furthermore). Just my 2 cents.

86

Johnny, and all new posters to this thread, please read my repeated posts as to why we will not and cannot receive a response from the mods on this.

Oh hell, I’ll just post it for the third time:

It’s very likely the only person who knows why warmgun was banned is TubaDiva, and she is not posting regularly because she is in the process of moving.

Asking the question over and over will not active her magic Mod-sense and make her jump online to answer you. When/if she sees this, the four millionth post saying, “We want an answer” is not going to create a different outcome than if there had been 3,999,999 posts like that. Question saturation has been reached.

–John

87

You’re right, and I did not realize I hadn’t finished that thought. Obviously, since I don’t know why he was banned specifically, the sentence should more accurately read, “His response to me and/or TVeblen here seems to have contributed to his banning.” How, specifically, we don’t yet know, nor may ever know - c’est la vie.

My apologize for being imprecise. Still, I’m surprised you didn’t realize that, after we’ve all said over and over “no one knows exactly,” it was obviously a typo.

Esprix

88

Nacho4Sara, I was out of control in my last few posts to you. I realize by a lot of standards it wasn’t much, but I have made a decision to avoid vicious conflict on the SDMB. I lost my temper.

As a result of this I have devised a new personal policy:

I’m not going to argue with you any longer.

–John

89

Hombre wrote:

Okay, the interest in where the “line” is, as has been pointed out already, is based on two bad assumptions:

  1. That a single crossing of the line is likely to get a person banned (it’s more likely to get a person warned), and

  2. That it’s possible to precisely locate the “line” for all circumstances.

I’ll ask a third time: Does every possible method of “being a jerk” need to be spelled out in detail? (This was asked of CnoteChris, who appears to be very much under the impression that a single line-crossing means a banning, always.)

Yes. Jerky enough to be banned? In just this thread? Not necessarily. But that’s taking things out of context.

Very bad assumption. It assumes that everything that happened did so[ul][li]on this board[]in public, and[]in this thread[/ul]I get the impression that warmgun was in email contact with Tuba. If, for example, Tuba sent him a warning email about some other thread, and he replied “fuck you” or some such, I’d consider that a “bannable offsense.” There are zillions of reasonable hypothetical situations which could have led to warmgun’s banning, so assuming it must have been this thread isn’t right.[/li]
Right now, there’s no way to know what the reason(s) is (are). And, as warmgun himself implied, in his email to darkcool (short sabbatical, by the way :wink: ), it’s none of our business why he got banned.

I saw the confusion a while back, and as has been pointed out (I love that phrase), it’s caused by faulty assumptions about bannings.

Perhaps you and CnoteChris should instead ask about the process of banning in general. You’d be more likely to get an informative response, and you wouldn’t need to wait for Tuba.

I can only think of a few things likely to get a person banned immediately (or almost immediately):[ul][]Sockpuppets[]Reregistering under a new name after being banned[]Posting links to, say, porno, just for fun[]Anybody else got anything?[/ul]Any offenses that don’t fall into the above categories are more likely to generate warnings first (in public or not), and from what I’ve seen in regards to certain infamous posters, there can be a lot of warnings before an actual banning occurs. People can, and do, post jerky stuff here for months at times before getting thrown out. And, as has been pointed out (bwahahaha!), the folks here often have looong memories for jerky behaviour. A months-old warning won’t “wear out” over time.

90

Oh, yeah? How would you know that?

And how did you get that? I re-read this thread - I didn’t see it. Do you know something we don’t know. (We wouldn’t expect you to tell us what it was, of course, just that you knew) Because if you don’t, I think that remark is irresponsable, given that warmgun is not here to confirm or deny.

That’s fair. But as I explained, it was only because of the e-mails that I came back. I never expected to see this when I got here. But, still, you got me dead to rights.

I agree. But it sure would be re-assuring to know there was more to it than just this thread.

Ok, now I’m going.

Again. :smiley:

91

The mods aren’t required to explain. That’s the whole point Slip and a lot of other people here have been making, pointing out that this isn’t a democracy, and we’re lucky to be here, etc etc. And they’d be right. I don’t have a problem with the mods exercising their right to refrain from issuing an explanation (well, not a huge problem anyway). Thing is, I also don’t have a problem with members asking for one. Doesn’t mean they’re going to get one, but then again they often do. There’s no harm in asking.

I’m often amazed at how polarised these threads become. I respect the mods’ right to act as they please without answering to the members, but I don’t feel there is a conflict in feeling this way and also feeling it’s ok to query their actions sometimes. It’s up to the mods whether or not to listen. We’re kinda like bums on the street. :slight_smile: I can ask you for money, and you can refuse. But I can still ask.

I really can’t see the big deal here.

92

Ahhh…a voice of reason.
I’ve pretty much tried to stay out of this because everyone got so polarized. Not speaking for him, but I thought that was what Yue Han was missing. It’s not that some of us were asking over and over, we were debating the right to ask. It seemed like a legit debate to me.
And I can’t see why the mods would care. All they got to do is nothing. I’m not offended by that. It is their right.

93

darkcool wrote:

How would I know that paying attention to only this thread when trying to guess why warmgun was banned is taking things out of context? Because he had over 600 posts. Because, as Esprix pointed out in the OP, he’d pissed people off before.

Let me re-write that sentence:

I GET THE IMPRESSION that…

Everybody’s guessing here, darkcool. I’m making my own guess. When warmgun wrote, “Tuba was just doing her job,” I doubt he could have gotten that from this thread, either. Tuba never wrote “I’m banning warmgun, because he did thus-and-such, and so my job is to ban him.” It’s only weakly implied. People get the rules recited to them without getting banned. My guess is that Tuba told warmgun precisely why he was banned, but you won’t find it in a post anywhere (this assumes, of course, that it wasn’t Lynn or another Admin who banned him).

Yeah, just as irresponsible as your taking part of the blame, or John’s changing warmgun’s “inappropriate” to “doesn’t want to,” or any of a zillion other guesses offered in this thread. warmgun isn’t here to confirm or deny any of them. Why single me out? Go on, ask Libertarian how he “knows” that warmgun “deserved” to be banned, and that he was for the reason stated.

Fair? Dead to rights? Up yours. My comment was a joke, said with a wink which meant “no judgement calls here.” I don’t give a hoot whether you take a sabbatical or not. Actually, now that I think about it more, I’d respect you more if you did not. Running off, scared of being banned, or just because you’re fed up by things you don’t understand, is childish if the former, and antithetical to the Straight Dope ‘paradigm’ if the latter.

On the other hand, to paraphrase a friend of mine, I support your decision to take a sabbatical: anyone who threatens to leave me alone should be encouraged.

You must be kidding me. Or have you ignored the links to warmgun’s previous troubles? Did you ignore the OP?

Bye. Have a good life. It’s been craptacular meeting you.

94

Don’t you just love the dry unspoken word?
Didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers like that.
Now as you read these words, picture us setting at a table, leanin’ back in our chairs drinking coffee having a nice friendly discussion about this.
Where to start…
The ‘context’ thing. Just because he had 600 posts doesn’t mean automatically mean that there was a build up. My point was that he might have been banned for that one post. You made it sound like you had info to the contrary. I admit, I don’t know.

My guess would have been that he talked to Tuba after he got banned. I didn’t see the cause and effect relationship between the sentence and the banning. Maybe he hasn’t even talked to her. Maybe he was just stating the obvious. Who knows?

I openly apologize to you for making it seem like I was singling you out. I wasn’t. Truthfully, I was bothered by Lib’s comment (among others). I though it was a reversal of his previous stance (with no new info) and certainly presumtuous. And , yes, irresponsable.

And about the ‘sabbatical’ (or rather the “thats fair”) comment. I must say I’m a little confused why you took offense at that. I thought I was going along with the ribbing and I get an “up yours”? Whatever you thought I meant - I didn’t.

And for leaving, I thought the smilie said it all. Maybe I should have used a :wink: instead
To sum up: I was playing devil’s advocate to give WG the benefit of the doubt.
Sorry if you took it as a person attack. Not my intention.
Again, my humble apologies.

Burton

95

I just know. And that’s all you’re gonna get outta me on that.

However, I will say this. If I were to devise a sense of fairness from scratch, I would do it by assimilating all of the fairness doctrines from TubaDiva. She is trustworthy, not because she’s perfect, not because she’s an admin, and not because she’s TubaDiva. She is trustworthy because her heart is kind and loving and caring.

She is the person ultimately responsible for bannings. Trust her.

96

Since it appears to be taking some amount of restraint on your part to even respond to my comments, and you seem likely to lose it at any moment, it’d be safe to say I’d like someone outside of you yourself trying to answer it (Maybe a moderator or an administrator?).

But I give you credit for trying to answer it all on your own without any knowledge of what’s going on. I can see how that must get frustrating.

Tell me, though, when did you become the voice of the administration?

In terms of my comments made here-

Once again, to be clear, all I’ve argued for in this thread and some other threads in the past, is an open and straight forward dialogue with the moderators and administrators of this board.

That is, if something so egregious has happened that it required a member being banned, and that said action wasn’t because of some top secret event that can’t be released, than I can’t see the need to not give a quick explanation on the banning.

Why? Because if some line were crossed, it’d be nice to know what it was, if for the sole reason that it will lay the ground rules on what is or isn’t allowed around here.

Keeping it secret, or never commenting on it, or worse, having wild speculation and arguments between members of what might or might not have caused the banning, is hardly an open and straight forward mentality.

For some reason, at least lately around here anyway, it’s been decided things won’t be explained.

Now, in some cases, I understand that. But in some cases, I can’t for the life of me find a good reason.

Again, if it’s so simple and easy a call, than why the silence? It seems to me that the person that initiated and actually went through with the banning could be able to answer it without much thought or concern.

And that’s it… it isn’t a bitch at the mods or admins, or a bitch at anyone else out here (Well, maybe it is, especially when people say that no information is good information… then I argue that point like I did here earlier). But on my part, at least, it isn’t wanting anything more than what caused the banning, for any number of reasons.

And finally, if it’s been decided that persons bannings around here will no longer be discussed- for any reason-than say so.
*And Nacho4Sara, come on, I’ve read enough of your stuff to know that you usually get things right. But taking my quote made specifically to Esprix, and attributing it to something said against a mod or admin, is going too far. If your going to criticize a bunch of people on what they said, and highlight those comments, at least get them right.

97

Chris: Enough. Go read my last post to Sara. If you want to lie about me and quote me out of context, I’m done.

If you want answers about this specific thread, you can’t have them for logical reasons and you know that if you’ve read my posts. Only Tuba knows, and Tuba has very little internet access at the moment. Period. If you want answers in general, read my reply to Hombre further down in this post.

In either case, I’m tired of the way you’re conducting your argument and I’m not going to put up with it anymore.

Hombre: It’s fine with me if you want to debate the right to ask questions. (I say, yes, you do, btw.) But I keep seeing people say, “But why aren’t they answering us?” and there’s a fairly simple reason for that I’ve posted several times. It’s gets frustrating.

–John

98

I respect you a lot, CNote, especially for your stance in the Arturo fiasco. Here, however, I hope you’ll accept my friendly advice that you’ve not quite represented accurately what you’ve been arguing for in this thread. You’ve likely represented what you meant to argue for, but what you’ve actually argued for is public knowledge of private business. If you were asking for a straightforward dialog with the mods and admins about general board policy, I would be the first to back you, as you surely know.

But the inner workings of any particular situation ought not to be put on display here. Suppose the admins were to post and explain to you in detail why they banned warmgun. And then suppose you (or someone else) didn’t like the reason. What then? That’s a lose-lose situation for the admins, the posters, and the whole board.

Whenever you have a question about a particular circumstance, e-mail an admin and ask. Then accept whatever response you get (don’t make a discussion out of it) and go on your merry way. That’s my worthless advice. Do with it what you wish.

99

Yue Han, I’ve read your posts to Sarah and I’ve read your posts to me.

If anyone’s getting overly worked up about this, it’s you. You’ve called me a jackass, called sara a condescending bitch, and have basically gone off on anyone that doesn’t listen to you.

I’ve listened to what you’ve written, and I don’t disagree with it or have a contention with it- Tuba is busy and she’s the best person to explain what happened. Fine. I can wait.

My points in this thread have been made to those that feel this type of explanation should never take place in the first place, that’s all. I’ve given some reasons why I think they should.

I’m not in here calling, nay, demanding, that tuba get in here and explain herself post haste, I’m simply saying that an explanation -whatever way it may come- is a good idea, not a bad one.

That’s it.

Take a fucking pill and relax.

You’re tired of how I’m handling myself in this thread? Take a look in the mirror, pal. I’ve been trying to explain an over-all position, and trying to make it clear and concise and to the point.

I sure as hell am not saying that if you don’t agree with me you need to shut up, go away, or otherwise get fucked.

100

If that’s how it comes off, than I apologize- that’s not my intent.

My only argument is to keep things as open as possible, when it’s possible.

It wasn’t my impression that much had been going on behind the scenes in this case, but obviously, I could be wrong.

If that’s the case, then I certainly don’t have a problem with keeping it quiet.

If you were to ask me my what I thought was happening here, I’d say I think everyone- moderators and administrators- are waiting for Tuba to respond… I think.

If that’s the case? Great. No problemo.

My posts earlier are directed at those that think explanations and discussions on these topics are not only not needed, but unwarranted. I was explaining why I thought that isn’t always the case, or should be the case.

Again, if there was some confusion behind that, it’s my fault for not explaining it better, because what you suggest, I wasn’t after.