Weak emotional rant

The BBQ Pit
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I realize that by posting my rant on the internet (especially the pit) i am opening myself up for scrutiny, i don’t care. I realize people may see fit to citisize my grammar or spelling or incoherent flow…if you’re smug enough to do a shitty thing like then i hope the tiny boost you get in confidence at my expense makes your life happier…i really do. I make no appologies for the content or format of my thoughts as i am typing this under the influence of heavy emotion and it is my way to feel GOOD and somehow get this OUT, not presented for your entertainment so either read it or don’t.

After years i am finally convinced that females only pretend to want balance, sanity, and kindness in a man. They only pretend to want to be treated with respect and not be objectified…in fact they THRIVE on unstable and abusive realationships. Pay no attention to thier pleading of wanting a “sensitive man”, someone responsible, intelligent, supportive, and empathetic…behaving in such a way will only designate you as “friend” status or grant you “sisterly” love. No the way to truely please a lady is to be a VILE, disquisting, HORNY pig with no regard for anyone but yourself. Taking an active intrest in said lady’s life will only give you the privelage of seeing her cry after every abusive exchange…but don’t bother trying to help her tackle her insecurities and make a better life for herself…this misery is what she really craves.

This revelation comes as an unpleasant suprise to me because i like to think the best for humanity, that deep down we are all truely caring people who look out for each other, but all that good will crap is song and dance to cover the fact that we are little more than chimpanzees flinging our crap at each other, we are PRIMAL and SELFISH by nature. Everyone is loaded with insecurities given to them by media and culture, i’m beggining to think that “love” is nothing more than our selfish need fill those gaps insecurity creates, that we convince ourself we care for someone just so that we may be cared for ourselves. If anyone has any PHILOSOPHY that can help convince me i’m going down the dark path with this thinking please present it…or maybe that’s just wishfull thinking.

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[QUOTE=ThatGuy]
After years i am finally convinced that females only pretend to want balance, sanity, and kindness in a man. They only pretend to want to be treated with respect and not be objectified…in fact they THRIVE on unstable and abusive realationships. Pay no attention to thier pleading of wanting a “sensitive man”, someone responsible, intelligent, supportive, and empathetic…behaving in such a way will only designate you as “friend” status or grant you “sisterly” love. No the way to truely please a lady is to be a VILE, disquisting, HORNY pig with no regard for anyone but yourself. Taking an active intrest in said lady’s life will only give you the privelage of seeing her cry after every abusive exchange…but don’t bother trying to help her tackle her insecurities and make a better life for herself…this misery is what she really craves.

[quote]
Sigh. Your spelling etc look fine. Your rant is a bit old to nice girls looking for nice guys. I was with a bona fide nice guy for 7 years. Still love him. He’s not sure he wants to commit. Self proclaimed nice guys rant about how “females only pretend to want balance, sanity, and kindness in a man. They only pretend to want to be treated with respect and not be objectified”. Well, IME, many times nice guys don’t really mean “females”. What many of those men mean is “HOT Starlet like females, NONE others need apply”.

I trust you’re not one of those, but you can see where “nice, stable, sweet, normal (read; NOT Pamela Anderson) girls can get a bity cynical and annoyed with the whole dating thing themselves. So, for answers on your question here, you might want to check out the other “nice guys” thread in the pit. It’s called something like Why do girls want boyfriends that they won’t sleep with?”

Um, this part I have few clues on, at least the poo flinging part.

The selfish by nature? Uhm yeah, in part. That’s being human, and then we appeal to our better nature and try to override that part, and be adult. But the primal part is still there. And that primal part is likely why all humans need chemistry in order to bond with another, which is why not just any old person can bond with any old other person.

Really, you might get more at this late hour if you perused the other thread first. Though, imho, there can never be enough nice guy threads, or ANYTHING but bush/kerry threads
:smiley:

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Wow! I’ve never seen a cynic fledgling leaving it’s nest before. This is cool.

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I should specify why i envisioned this thread being a little different that the normal “nice guys can’t get girls” thread now that i have collected my thoughts a little more.

Most of those threads are created as sort of a plea of “I’m a nice guy, why can’t i get any”. I am personally in a stable and loving relationship thank heavens (i say stable and loving, but not perfect) and couldn’t care less if i was conceived as a “nice guy”…i am who i am. My rant came from continually watching my friend who i care for deeply subject herself to such pain, this brought up serious ethical and philisophical questions in my mind. It pains me to think that maybe she can’t be happy with just a normal old nice guy.

My rant would paint the image of her being will a horrible person which is certainly not true…i don’t believe in black and white, only gray. But while this shade of gray has some wonderfull things to offer my friend and society, he also packs some pretty intense emotional issues that end up causing her great pain on an almost daily basis. As i had a short conversation with the guy who was in a particularly shitty mood he said something along the lines of “isn’t it crazy that she could have somebody completely supportive and stable like you but she could never be with you, stability bores her, she needs this”. This was after he had been especially hurtfull to both her and myself. He was obviously trying to get under my skin, but i knew there was a truth to what he was saying.

I wanted some insight into why…is it “human nature” or learned nature that we long to be belittled and abused?

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Some people do long to be abused - mostly ones who were subject to something bad in their childhood that left something in their psyche to leave them unable to cope with real relationships. And there’s the fact that every self-proclaimed nice guy I’ve ever met (speaking as another guy, looking in from the outside, not as the object of their intentions) is a needy, whiny, immature idiot who wants to find a girl who will fulfill his every emotional need. Very few girls go for that.

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Okay this is coming from my personal experience so bear with me.

IME there are basically 3 types of guys

Assholes, self-proclaimed nice guys and nice guys.

[ul][li]Assholes come in a huge variety. Some you can spot right off the bat and some are nice guys until they get what they want (usually sex, money, power or a combination)[/li]
[li]Self-proclaimed nice guys are generally a subset of asshole. They just don’t know it. These are the ones that often ask why the girls don’t want a nice guy. Often these ones are also whiny and very clingy.[/li]
[li]Nice guys are… nice guys.[/ul][/li]
Now why I think the assholes are more likely to get women is because they put themselves out there. Nice guys IME are the ones that hang back. They watch, they make friends and they don’t let the girl know how they feel about her. Because they don’t want to push, they wait for a sign. Now not all nice guys do that but I think that many of them do. IMHO the nice guys could maybe take a lesson from the nice appearing assholes. Get out there. Flirt. Admit you like the girl, don’t just stand back and hope she notices you. If you do that the assholes zoom in and fill that space.

Some women will flock to the obvious assholes, hopefully when they know themselves better they won’t. It’s the assholes that are nice at first that are the worst. They seem like a nice guy. They make friends, take you out, make you feel loved and wanted and when they have you they drop the nice guy facade. But at that point you are hooked and in love. You think something is wrong and that if you just stand by your man he will go back to how he was at first. This is how you get everything from guys who just use the women for money and sex to the ones who slap them around. Because you feel this isn’t them. It can’t be, it has to be the guy you initially knew. Some of us women refuse to leave, some of us it takes us time to realize we need to leave (like me, sadly) and some leave right away.

I’m still recovering from the last one like that. The only thing he did was fuck with my credit and still makes me weak in the knees despite knowing he used me (thank god he didn’t slap me around. My Dad and brother would’ve killed him, or tried to). That’s why at this moment I am taking things pretty slow… with a nice guy who’s been my friend for 6 years.

I really don’t know what I’m saying at this point. Basically yeah some women do thrive on the misery. They get attention, people worrying about them etc. Others it’s not that they thrive on it, they just keep ending up with the nice-seeming assholes and can’t seem to break the cycle. The most obvious of these ones are the ones who get abused, or end up dead. They think they found the right guy, he’s so nice and sweet… and then he changes. It’s harder to find the nice guys IME. Like I said… they stand back and hope you see them, they offer a shoulder to cry on. If they stood out a little more then maybe not so many women would end up with the assholes. Not saying it’ll work all the time. Sometimes it’s good to just stay as friends, but let them no. Don’t think they’ll just look up one day and say “He’s the one for me”

I think we do want “balance, sanity, and kindness in a man” it’s just often harder to spot. Especially when we’re young and reckless and think we can change the world. As we get older and more experienced it’s easier for us to see the assholes. Hopefully. Sadly, not all women learn to do this.

And I’ve probably tossed this off course so I’ll just leave it at that.

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Let them know damnit. I did preview.

Reading this… well she’s going to have to choose to be honest. She’s probably seeing the fun and the wonderful and trying to stand by him and be supportive despite the pain it causes because to her, at this time, the wonderful outweighs the pain.

She doesn’t need it. Like I said before, she’s probably trying to help.

I went through something like this. I lived with this guy for 2 years. We were great friends at first then things started to fall apart. I pretty much fell in love with him and he turned asshole. He started using me, caused me a lot of pain and heartache and it took a very big stick to wake me up. I should’ve left after just over a year. Why did I stay for a good 8 months longer than I should have?

Because I thought I loved him, I thought he was my friend, I thought he needed someone to be there for him to help him.

What woke me up? I got pregnant (not by him, someone else). I took a good long hard look at the situation I was living in and asked myself did I think I could raise a child like this. At first, I tried to change the situation from the inside. But then I got whacked upside the head (figuratively) and I realized that this was getting me nowhere. So I left.

It was tough, but I did it.

Unfortunately for your friend… it might take a pretty big stick to wake her up. And sadly for you, you can’t do anything but be there for her. Until she realizes the bad outweighs the good, the fun, the wonderful… she’s going to stay where she is. I wish I could give you advice, or some magic way of wising her up. But I can’t even though I’ve been there and done that. I’d just hope she wises up to this guy and gets out of dodge, then gets herself together and finds a nice guy.

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Thanks for commiting the time and personel experience to the thread Flutterby, now that i’ve cooled off what you say makes a lot of sense and confirms what i’ve always known…most women remain loyal after the abuse starts because they truely hope for the dude to wise up. While this is sad i know all i can really do is think positively and continue to be there for her.

Your three types of guys list seems very accurate because in high school i WAS the second type until a mature relationship made me grow up. It wasn’t that i wasn’t a “nice guy” as i proclamed, it’s just that my insecurity made me so clingy and made me go into relationships with a long mental list of emotional needs i wanted filled…the opposite of going in with an open heart and getting to know the person as he/she is. My patheticness was my defense mechanism for my observation of all the football jocks and other assorted assholes ending up with the girls…I thought maybe that high school aged children are so obssesed with their image that life in these walls from 8:00-3:00 can’t be representitive of real adult relationships, it didn’t take long after HS to see the same basic rule applies.

So don’t think to hardly on “self-proclaimed nice guys”, many of them are real nice guys waiting bloom:)

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There’s a difference between nice guys and doormats. Guys who think they’re the former are usually the latter.

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That’s why I said generally. The self-proclaimed nice guys have the ability to go either way, and yes some assholes can change their ways as well. I won’t say it doesn’t happen but you just have to realize if they will or not and if not, get out.

Good for you on turning into a true nice guy. As I said, about the only thing you can do is be there for her. I hope for her sake she wises up. It can be tough to break away but when you do… it’s like the world drops from your shoulders. She has to realize that taking on all the pain isn’t going to change him or help her. But we get stubborn, so just hope that she wises up.