Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!)

[Queuing]

Not to pick on you brewha, but just saying I think X is town and Y is scum without saying why doesn’t help much either. I know you have already said why, but I think in our posts of why we think who is what we need to also give reasons. Links are not necessary, but reasons are. This is meant as a general comment to all of us. The reasoning doesn’t have to be very in depth or brilliant or anything, just more then a blanket statement.

For example I think Storyteller is town because he has given some very in depth analysis on a number of occasions about a number of different people. As well he was onto FCOD early in the game, and never dropped that suspicion, that as we know turned out correctly.

I think Malacandra is scum because he has given little to no posts of substance, beyond math posts which only appeared after they may have been of use by showing us that the odds that the beat cop actually got a reading of SK correct are very slim.

[StarvingButStrong]

@MonkeyMensch

Hi all.

I’m assuming that the Mafia got Pima and the SK glee. But it could easily be the other way 'round. If a cop gets lucky and investigates the SK there’s a much better chance of an accurate ID than with mere scum. Just thought I’d mention it.

Huh? Seriously, I don’t understand you. Why would the SK go after Pima? Why wouldn’t the Mafia go after our pretty-much-confirmed Beat Cop?

And, though I didn’t follow all the math, I very sure that the agreed bottom line was that ids of any ‘special’ role were much less certain that either ‘town’ or ‘mafia.’ Something on the order of 7 times less likely, IIRC.

I’m voting aguecheek for the moment because that gallows steps claim still rings hinky and then you chose to investigate queuing! I may be sniffing glue here, and I’m not, but queuing is doing yeoman’s work with those summations (and thanks to the others who have volunteered to do more of those) and is not much a suspect. Why not look at somebody a little more suspicious or at least low posting?

Such as yourself? Or me? Or roughly half of the current survivors? Most of the prolific are GONE already. We’re left with medium to low posters in the main.

I find this a very weird, and rather suspicious post, even though I agree with your continuing suspicions of aguecheek.

[StarvingButStrong]

@brewha

Where is everyone? We still got 18 players, but only a half a dozen seem to be vocal.

I’m taking off for the weekend in about 3 hrs. I probably won’t check the Dope again until Sun night.

Well, here in the Northeast it’s the first nice day after six days of rain, so I guess a lot of people might be spending time outdoors.

Plus, a lot of people might be waiting until all the ‘dissections’ get done and posted and read.

BTW, mine is taking longer than I thought. Every single time I click on that insert a link button IE ‘helpfully’ pops us a window to warn me that this site is now running a script, and click here if I want to let it. So I do. Then it offers the choice of ‘temporarily allow’ and ‘learn more.’ So I pick temporary. But does that get the link window? Nope. I have to click on the insert link button AGAIN. So it takes me four clicks before I even GET to the link window. <sigh>

And the, of course, the ‘temporary’ is over before I have the next link ready and I get to do it all over again. <double sigh> I’ve got to get a better browser.

Still, I promise to have it done by Saturday evening.

[Queuing]

StarvingButStrong, you may want to read that by MM again. He says the mafia did go after pima.
To help with your annoying why-do-I-use-IE problem add the SDMB to your trusted sites. To do this go to tools–internet options–security—trusted sites and add the SDMB (its easiest if you do this while on the SDMB). You may have to unclick use https prefix for it to work. Then reload IE. It will prompt you about something when you go back to SDMB (don’t remember exactly what it says), just say yes/ok or whatever, and you should be ok.

[StarvingButStrong]

@Queuing

StarvingButStrong, you may want to read that by MM again. He says the mafia did go after pima.

Yeah? ::rereads:: Okay, I guess I didn’t read the first sentence right. But what about

If a cop gets lucky and investigates the SK there’s a much better chance of an accurate ID than with mere scum. Just thought I’d mention it.

Isn’t that the opposite of what all the math posters have said? Where’s Malacandra? Yoo hoo!

Anyway, I’ll tone down my suspiciometer reading on MM. For now.

And a thousand thankyou’s for the hint about IE. That security ‘feature’ was driving me nuts.

[Fretful_Porpentine]

OK, I finished my investigation of ArizonaTeach.

General chitchat: 259, 488, 521, 1629, 1797, 2329, 2638, 2660, 2678

Minor game-related talk (e.g., signing up to play, minor corrections and commentary, etc.):

35, 447, 855, 1120, 2468, 2574, 2892, 2953

Posts consisting entirely of smilies: 1535

Substantive posts (with links to all posts that have commentary beyond a simple vote / unvote or an easily summarized line or two)

379. Says that casting the third vote is suspicious and that he distrusts Enfant Terrible, but not voting yet.

423. Says we shouldn’t count it against people if they fail to respond quickly because the thread is moving so fast, votes Enfant Terrible. Suspects Autolycus of being intentionally unhelpful.

468. Wonders why Winston Smith trusts Autolycus, argues that Autolycus’s behavior is non-cooperative, even if it doesn’t make him mafia.

473. Expresses suspicion of Blaster Master’s statement that he’s identified pro-townie roles, thinks he’s too obvious in trying to seem pro-town.

586. Reiterates suspicion of Blaster Master, implying that he was CaerieD’s crumb; wonders why the Mafia wanted to kill cowgirl, says he wants to go back and look at Queuing’s posts before agreeing with him since a lot of people seem to distrust him.

[Query: did we, at that time, have any reason to think cowgirl was killed by Mafia and not Vig? If not, is this a slip by a Mafia member who knows who killed her, or simply careless thinking by a townie?]

633. Defends the fact that he voted third on Enfant Terrible bandwagon, saying we should be suspicious of people who gave no reasons and he gave his. Reiterates suspicion of Blaster Master and distrusts chrisk for trying to get Autolycus bandwagon rolling. Says vote will depend on who he thinks CaerieD investigated and who voted for Enfant Terrible without giving a reason.

651. Votes for chrisk because he thinks chrisk’s votes come out of nowhere. (Later, at 820, complains that his analysis of chrisk vanished during preview.)

882 Unvotes chrisk because he doesn’t like being in a voting block with Pygmy and Winston.

1001. Decides chrisk was just in over his head, votes Blaster Master, reiterates suspicion of Pygmy Rugger and an unnamed person to whom the post is addressed (since he doesn’t quote, I’m not sure whom he’s replying to here). Says he’s leaning toward believing in Gadarene.

1099. Decides to believe BlasterMaster’s vig claim, votes Gadarene “because of the shout-out in this post, of which the only purpose I can fathom is to make people suspicious of an alliance between me and Gadarene in case he turns out to be scum.”

1347. Votes for a Vig-kill on zuma, expresses trust in Pleonast and Blaster Master and distrust of Winston Smith and Gadarene. Reiterates suspicion of Winston and zuma at 1448.

1524. Conjectures that Gadarene tried to start a bandwagon against zuma, who has now claimed to be a Mason, and make it look like ArizonaTeach started it.

1566. Votes Plan 2 for who BM should kill that night, because he doesn’t want to give BM a choice of targets. (N.B. He seems to be confused here, because actually it’s Plan 1 that would give BM no choice.)

1738. Wants to know why he’s on BM’s distrust list. Responds to BM’s post at 1751 and says a mason needs to counterclaim fast if Pleonast and zuma are lying.

1761, with minor correction at 1762. Rebuts accusations that he’s lurking too much; says that as a townie he has no inside info, and the constant “white noise” posts are just confusing the issue; more inclined to think people who post heavily are scum. Defends this position against Jsexton at 1796 and again at 1826.

1921. Asks pimaspinner why she voted for Rysto. Votes FCOD at 2010, after pimaspinner’s role claim; then, at 2099, votes to lynch **JSexton and vig-kill FCOD. FoSes Monkeymensch in same post. After JSexton’s role claim, votes for Suburban Plankton instead (2182). Then, at 2184, switches lynch vote to Fern Forest – and back to SP at 2227.

2466. Says he’ll vote for Autolycus, but wants Fern Forest to chime in first. Votes Auto at 2514.

2548. Says that pimaspinner should announce her target before an investigation, and Pleonast should out other masons only if the target is a mason. Reiterates this at 2550 and suggests Pygmy Rugger as next investigation target.

2570. After last Mason revealed, wonders if there could be fewer than nine Mafia.

2614. Asks Auto why he mistrusts pima, repeats question at 2623, argues against Auto’s reasons at 2625.

After lynching, asks (2675) whether there’s any way to blame what happened to Auto on bad math; at 2710 asks what the point of the beat cop is and says Mafia has to target SK now. Will later post more about Beat Cop’s worthlessness at 3011 and 3078.

2757. Defends self against Kat’s accusations about his voting record, saying anyone would switch votes if people they thought were scum were bandwagoning the vote. More responses to Kat at 2819, along with a vote for Queuing. Kat unvotes, but AZTeach then has to defend self against StarvingButStrong at [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8477680#post8477680]2854.

2989. Posts a recap of the last day’s events. Offers to do an investigation at 3063.

As far as I can tell, he seems to change his votes a lot; he also seems to have been wrong a lot – but neither of these things is inherently suspicious, given the town’s track record. The one thing that did catch my eye was the early reference to cowgirl as a Mafia target – but I don’t know whether it means anything or not.

[Queuing]

@StarvingButStrong

Yeah? ::rereads:: Okay, I guess I didn’t read the first sentence right. But what about

Isn’t that the opposite of what all the math posters have said? Where’s Malacandra? Yoo hoo!

Yes, from what I understand that is true.

@StarvingButStrong

Anyway, I’ll tone down my suspiciometer reading on MM. For now.

Well I don’t want to seem to be defending MM, because he is #1 of my suspect list.

@StarvingButStrong

And a thousand thankyou’s for the hint about IE. That security ‘feature’ was driving me nuts.

Happy to be of help.

[ArizonaTeach]

@Fretful Porpentine

OK, I finished my investigation of ArizonaTeach.

…and don’t I sound wishy-washy because of it (although I can’t deny your fairness!) Allow me to address and clarify:

@Fretful Porpentine

586. Reiterates suspicion of Blaster Master, implying that he was CaerieD’s crumb; wonders why the Mafia wanted to kill cowgirl, says he wants to go back and look at Queuing’s posts before agreeing with him since a lot of people seem to distrust him.

[Query: did we, at that time, have any reason to think cowgirl was killed by Mafia and not Vig? If not, is this a slip by a Mafia member who knows who killed her, or simply careless thinking by a townie?]

Neither. Allow me to repost the relevant section:

@Me

Well, **BlasterMaster ** was on my list since his “I have ideas about who is what” post, and I wish I had listened to *CaerieD ** more then. (Pounds my heart twice, kisses two fingers and raises them towards the sky.) If she was killed by the mafia I suspect it’s for that exact reason. I can’t imagine why the mafia would want to kill cowgirl, though, but I haven’t gone back to look at her posts. (Umm…some equally ridiculous show of support for another fallen friend) *

I was wondering out loud which one the mafia killed (notice the “if”). Was it **CaerieD ** because of her possible **BlasterMaster ** breadcrumb, or was it cowgirl, which I said aloud I can’t imagine why, given there hadn’t seem to have been much focus on her.

@Fretful Porpentine

651. Votes for chrisk because he thinks chrisk’s votes come out of nowhere. (Later, at 820, complains that his analysis of chrisk vanished during preview.)

No, but I had to go back and look at what the hell you were talking about to see what that was about. Look at the post directly above mine. I had a big analysis of what reasons **chrisk ** could have for leaving the game and when I previewed, there was **NAF ** basically blowing what I had speculated out of the water. So I erased it, grumbled a bit, and moved on.

@Fretful Porpentine

As far as I can tell, he seems to change his votes a lot;

True.

@Fretful Porpentine

he also seems to have been wrong a lot

God, true.

@Fretful Porpentine

– but neither of these things is inherently suspicious, given the town’s track record. The one thing that did catch my eye was the early reference to cowgirl as a Mafia target – but I don’t know whether it means anything or not.

Hope I cleared that up.

I have started my epic **StarvingButStrong ** work. Bear with me.

[StarvingButStrong]

@ArizonaTeach

I have started my epic **StarvingButStrong ** work. Bear with me.

Waiting with bated breath.
I’ve finished with brewha’s, except it’s in four separate files that I need to merge and do a bit of cleanup, and no doubt fix some links.

BTW, I’m thinking Brewha is female (and so used she and her) but now I don’t even know why I thought that. Brewha? Anyone else know for sure?

(ArizonaTeach, I’m female.)

[Fretful_Porpentine]

Ah, thanks for the clarifications. Clearly this game is shooting my reading comprehension to hell.

[Fretful_Porpentine]

Yikes, and apparently it’s also shooting my coding abilities to hell. I don’t know why I didn’t catch some of those mistakes on preview.

[StarvingButStrong]

Before start/procedural/rule queries: 19 82 93 112
2539 2779 2784 2788
Night time joking around/drinking:
[196](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?
p=8404080&postcount=196) 199
1617 1625 2256 2324
2325
2950 2956 2975
Serious Posts

275 - FOS at MonkeyMensch for what she sees as a deliberate ‘I’m just an innocent newbie don’t pay attention to me’ post.

466 - Suspicious of Blaster Master (suggests his posting style would fit with GF); Winston Smith (for being mistrustful of Blaster Master); MonkeyMensch (for poor response to her previous FOS); Autolycus (for not being helpful to town.) Says ‘needs more info’ before she’ll vote.

719 - Defends herself from two votes. Says FOS MonkeyMensch was because he posted first after the deaths were announced.

856 - Votes for Blaster Master because he’d been a prominent poster and yet he hadn’t been killed by the Mafia.

1019 - Unvotes Blaster Master saying she can’t decide if he’s helpful townie or clever scum, and doesn’t want to be part of lynching him.

1097 Supports Rysto’s plan to let Blaster Master live and have us vote for who he should kill each night; defends herself from JSexton’s suspicion of her for being too defensive in post 719; Votes for Queuing.

1101 - Proposes that “Miller should block SK” as part of testing BlasterMaster’s claim of being Vig. Note: this wouldn’t work because Miller’s block people and not roles, as explained in succeeding posts.

1262 - says her belief in Queuing’s scumminess shaken by Queuing’s attitude, wonders if he’s the right person to hang, and says hopes useful info on alliances will be gained. Also says feels Blaster Master’s posts are consistent with his claim of being Vig.

1274 - Says we shouldn’t let Queuing martyr himself, doesn’t want to be a part of this lynching, unvotes Q.

1308 - wonders if Blaster Master is the GF, and Queuing a mafia sacrificing himself to help save the GF. (This is in response to one of those Kill X and if X is mafia then kill y deals.) Says she doesn’t understand why Queuing is ‘so eager’ to die.

1325 - says since it appears Queuing’s death is inevitable agrees to Queuing’s proposal of Lynch Queuing, if scum vig Gadarene else vig Zuma.

1330 - Says Blaster Master should be allowed to live if Queuing is town, but if Queuing is scum, he’s taking a dive to save Blaster Master.

1332 - Part of argument when Zuma didn’t seem to grasp that Blaster Master would know the outcome of the lynch before he had to submit his choice of victim that night.

1341 - continuation of above argument. She now suggests Zuma is either mafia or serial killer.

1343 - continuation. Doesn’t think Queuing & Zuma are on the same side, but maybe Queuing and BlasterMaster are.

1351 - continuation. Wants Blaster Master to explicitly state he understand who he is to kill based on how Queuing’s lynch turns out, to avoid Blaster Master being able to claim misunderstanding later.

1378 - continuation Disbelieving of Zuma’s claim of mason; wants to go ahead with conditional with Zuma as one of the Vig’s target unless Pleonast confirms Zuma as mason.

1381 - one line: votes for Gadarene (apparently after reading post where Pleonast confirms Zuma as mason, though that post predated 1378)

1491 - expresses frustration with the results of Zuma’s being a mason; leaves her vote on Gadarene saying she hoped he was scum, and even if not, at least we’d get some info from his death.

1684 - defends her voting pattern against Queuing’s suspicions

1820 - attacks FernForest for posting little more than odds/math, for not giving reasons for her votes, and for voting for her (brewha). Votes FernForest.

2102 - calls FernForest’s response to her previous post ‘just words’ and keep her vote for him; votes to Vig FlyingCowOfDoom.

2103 - Calls a post by FlyingCowOfDoom scummy.

2145 - musing on what if FCOD and BlasterMaster are both scum. (This is when we were coming up with the test of FCOD’s claim of being a miller.)

2202 - After JSexton’s claim of being the doctor. Musing on how he now has to protect himself all the time, makes him useless to the town; Keeps her vote of FernForest, but agrees Suburban Plankton a good lynch candidate, too.

2354 - Happy that two mafia were killed overnight.

2355 - FOS at JSexton because the mafia went after a Mason (Zuma) instead of the doctor.

2426 - Agrees Autolycus as GF makes sense; votes to lynch Autolycus and Vig FernForest; sees no reason to delay lynch; says other masons should remain hidden.

2445 - explains to Queuing that BlasterMaster was just ribbing her because she’d made the mistake earlier of thinking we could just block a role and not a particular player.

2446 - says if people want more time, fine, and unvotes Autolycus, but ‘loudly FOS’ at him.

2453 - Mocks Autolycus’ “I’m not that smart” defense re being the GF.

2521 - agrees with BlasterMaster that Autolycus is just jerking the town around; revotes Autolycus to put pressure on him.

[2324](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?
p=8450385&postcount=2324) ]2608 - Mocks Autolycus’ claim of being too busy to defend himself for the past 19 hours by showing he’d made 40 posts in other threads during that interval.

2608 - mocks Autolycus’ claim of being too busy to defend himself over a 19 hours stretch, pointing out that he’d made 40 posts in other threads during 10 hours of that interval. In 2609, corrects herself that it was 6.5 hours, not ten.

2696 - says ‘we’re screwed’ after night with three more dead citizens.

2717 - agrees Rysto may be right about our needing to go after low-posting players; says she doesn’t want to babble to up her post count because that could get her lynched, too; then says this: “I’m also not completely sure we should lynch Pima. A beat cop has a pretty good chance of getting the wrong reading.” See my next post for why I quote this.

2743 - says she has reread the first 1500 posts and still doesn’t know who to trust.

2762 - defends herself against Menocchio’s voting her; explains her FOS @ JSexton. (Basically, she says JSexton was told to protect someone else, so the Mafia should know the doctor was protecting himself, so the only reason they wouldn’t have gone for JSexton instead of the mason was because the Mafia knew JSexton wasn’t the doctor, that is, fellow scum.)

2766 - says she wasn’t fearing for her life, just wanted to explain about her JSexton suspicions.

2778 - another defense, against 3 votes now. Says she’s already defended her FOS of JSexton, and now explains why she didn’t want to delay lynching Autolycus (points out she unvoted when the opinions were we needed more time, and only revoted long afterwards to help pressure Autolycus into defending himself.)

2783 - complains only 7 players have votes and less than 24 hours until deadline.

2790 - thanks Pima for unvoting her; complains that all that’s going on is a spat between Queuing and Malacandra and she has no idea if both, one or neither is scum.

2832 - lists # posts per player for that “day”, suggests we need to look at the low count posters since the high count posters have mostly turned out to be town.

2871 - says she was happy to go after Aguecheek until his claim; then says ‘screw it’, beat cops haven’t been much use anyway; votes to lynch Aguecheek

2876 - urges last ten people to vote, time short and 2880 corrects herself on time remaining

2899 - says had voted for Aguecheek because he was so under the radar, now swayed by Queuings investigation of him, unvotes Aguecheek

2925 - Explains she is under suspicion because someone posted that scum vote less often than townies; says she’s never trusted MonkeyMensch, is irked that he didn’t unvote her when the others did; votes to lynch MonkeyMensch.

2936 - approves of MadTheSwines ideas on who to investigate, etc; urges people to switch votes from MTS to MonkeyMensch based on Queuing’s analysis. Then 2837 - realizes it’s too late to have posted that.

2991 - Wonders why SK killed Glee.

2996 - says she investigated MonkeyMensch and found evidence she thinks exonerates him: he helped sway the votes to killing Suburuban Plankton, and why would a Mafia do that? Also calls out StarvingButStrong and Storyteller as the only two who didn’t vote for SuburbanPlankton; also is suspicious of my belated post switch from MadTheSwine.

3003 - responds to my (StarvingButStrong) defending myself, saying I’m only second on her list; says Storyteller’s post reek of scum.

3005 - responds to my (StarvingButStrong) pointing out that I was among the first to vote for Suburban Plankton, says I’ve drop a few more pegs on her scum list.

3007 - responds to Storyteller asking for specifics by saying it wasn’t one thing he’d said, but what he hadn’t said.

3010 - says she’s gone over Storyteller’s posts again and can’t find concrete evidence for her suspicions; says he’s still at the top of her scum list until she can find a better candidate.

3016 - frustration with herself: first she was sure MonkeyMensch was scum, then not; then she was sure StarvingButStrong and Storyteller were scum, now not.

3020 - response to Queuing asking why she no longer suspects MonkeyMensch. Says MM was responsible for swaying vote from Fernforest to SuburbanPlankton, something scum wouldn’t do. Also says she has no real feel for which side Malacandra is on.

3027 - response to Queuing. Says she’s already admitted she might be wrong about Storyteller, says wait, she wants to make a case against Lakai.

3030 - her analysis of Lakai’s post (read it, doesn’t summarize easily), concluding that she thinks he’s scum. Also posts 3031, 3032, 3033, 3034, 3038, 3039, 3042 (won’t bother with links, they’re right after each other on same page) – coding problems and attempted corrections, mostly about how Blaster Master also suspected Lakai, reposting the post where he analyses Lakai’s voting pattern, and saying we should give more weight to what he posted, since we now know for sure he was Vig and thus on town side. In last one, she dismisses Lakai’s defense as weak, says he didn’t give real reasons, and why is he so defensive over a single poster suspecting him?

That takes us up to today – you all should be able to remember what was said today.
Queuing has asked us to give our opinions on the people we investigate, so I will, but not in this post. I’d rather people spent at least a few seconds deciding what they think before they read my opinion.

[Santo_Rugger]

@Queuing

<snip>
Personally I think it is a good idea to not just give us posts, but also what you think after reading them. I can see a downside to this, that being doing so might influence the thoughts of others to much. However the upside, that being forcing you to give your opinion on who you analyzed is more beneficial in the long run.

Ideally what I would like to see is we get all these reports done by sunday afternoon/evening, we all take monday to read them all, and then everyone gives their opinion on everyone else. Except for the fact that this will take a fair amount of time for each of us, I see no downside to this. If you are town, why wouldn’t you want to do this? If you are scum, well I see it being easier to catch you in a lie. I think, if this is done, we will improve our odds greatly of at least not having the scum beat us. I see no real way of getting the SK beyond luck.

What say all of you?

Emphasis mine. I think you pretty much answered your own question. I have a rugby match tomorrow, and I can pretty much guarantee I’m not going to be in the mood on Sunday to do what I’ll be doing at work all day Monday (no, not reading and posting to the Dope! I do safety basis, so pretty much fish through documents pulling out information all day). This game is supposed to be fun, and for me, wading through 60 pages of material at a time is what I get paid to do, not what I do for fun. Even if each person has your own summary, that’s still 20 pages.

[ArizonaTeach]

The Two-Fisted Adventures of StarvingButStrong.
A Play in One Act by ArizonaTeach

General Chit-Chat / Night Posts / “Empty” Posts
531, 536, 1534, 1615, 1627, 1637, 1960, 1961, 2287, 2333, 2510, 2646, 2650, 2669, 2952, 2955, 2973, 2978

Minor Metagame-Related
49, 95, 947, 2305, 2633, 2857, 2959, 2962, 2695, 3006, 3083

241: Overdramatic Night Post

342: Registers unease with the concept of her Trust/Distrust list as she believes it wouldn’t work in this setting.

451: Trust/Distrust list. Slightly trusts Fern Forest, BlasterMaster. Slightly distrusts Queuing, MadTheSwine. Mostly distrusts Autolycus. Proposes point scale for useful posts (?!?). Asks to know genders, which puts her on **Gadarene’s ** Distrust list. And then zuma’s.

465: Defends suspicions.

**Does not vote on Day One ** (town lynched Enfant Terrible)

743: FOS BlasterMaster, votes Queuing. She gives no reasons. She backed up by **nesta ** (!) by name in 752 and immediately after that **kivvik (!!) ** votes Queuing, too.

881: Backs up **FlyingCowofDoom’s ** (!!!) FOS at Pygmy Rugger.

1114: Wants clarification as to why the town would want to lynch the SK.

Side Note: as of post 1198, **StarvingButStrong ** and kivvik have not switched votes from Queuing, although nesta unvoted. They are joined here by FlyingCowofDoom. Also voting for Queuing at this time: zuma, Pleonast, brewha, glee, and Winston Smith. Note the ratio of known scum to known citizens to unknown citizens.

1261: Proposes **BlasterMaster ** kill-plan (targeting either Gadarene, Pleonast, or Queuing). **Malacandra **, **FlyingCowofDoom **, and **nesta ** agree to this plan immediately.

1558: unvotes Queuing, votes Gadarene.

1695: Disses serial-killer’s mafia kill. Explains lack of posts.

1827 Targets and votes for **Suburban Plankton ** hardcore. He never gets more than three votes.

1829: Reiterates her vote.

1880: Muses on gameplay; wants possiblities for vig-kill.

1930: Muses on why townies would want to target SK or Vig.

1949: Muses on how to tell townies from mafia.

2034Still claims **Suburban Plankton ** is scum, encourages vig to kill him; acknowledges most will vote to vig pima.

2100: unvotes **Suburban Plankton ** (but still claims he’s scum) and votes JSexton.

2116: Goes along with vig kill for FCOD.

2157: Claims to be the Great Pumpkin. Does not respond to **JSexton’s ** role claim.

2275: Night Post. Complains she wasn’t able to vote for Suburban Plankton, and points out she voted for him early on.

2284Points out **cowgirl ** might have read the Forbidden Thread and asks if that would be a problem.

Side Note: While I agree that this is a question that should have been asked, who would it be more a problem for: the townies or the mafia?

2388: Cheers death of two mafia and **pima’s ** charges against **Auto ** and Fern.

2395: Votes Auto, Vigs Fern. Now apparently wants SK taken out of the picture, which, interestingly enough, was explained to her by kivvik.

2724: Responds to accusations she has similar voting patterns to known mafia. Reiterates she voted for **SP ** and explains vote switch to JSexton. Reiterates unable to spend time during day on boards.

2725: Reiterates **SP/JSexton ** votes.
2760: Wants to know why Queuing was so suspicious on Day Two.

Side Note: She apparently forgot she was the second to vote for him (without reason), followed by mafia, and it was her idea to do the conditional vig-kill with him in the mix.

2791Discourages investigation of Lakai. This is agreed to by Pygmy Rugger.

2825: Wonders why **Queuing ** believes **hocow ** is town.

Side note: Although I understand what she’s driving at, is this just a way of keeping **hocow ** in the mix?

2847: Believes there may be a bandwagon beginning about Queuing, and for some reason believes she will be blamed for it, so she votes Augecheek.

Side note: Full disclosure: She fingers me here. And again, she seems to forget entirely her early and nearly immovable vote for Queuing on Day Two.

2885: Unvotes **Augecheek ** in response to role claim.

2903: Bandwagons MadTheSwine.

2946: Unvotes MtS. Votes MonkeyMensch, 20 minutes after **MtS ** was killed.

2948: Realizes her error.

3002: Reminds us again about her vote for Suburban Plankton. Explains late vote for MonkeyMensch. Claims to be vanilla townie.

3017: Wonders why we should trust a beat cop role claim.

3045: Volunteers to help out in Great Post Perusal Project.

3062: Assigned brewha.

3082: Suspicious of MonkeyMensch.

3085: Retracts susicions on re-read.

Bottom Line. I’m suspicious as all hell. Sorry, StarvingButStrong, but there’s some things in there that really, really, really need to be explained.

[ArizonaTeach]

Hmmm…looking at that now there’s a hundred things I would change (how did I miss some of those name-bolding), but the big thing is for post 2760 - I meant to say that **StarvingButStrong ** wanted to know why the town was so suspicious of **Queuing ** that day.

[Lakai]

@Queuing

So Lakai what do you think of cowgirl?

I think Smitty makes her look more scummy. Smitty suspected glee and Auto and he voted for Enfant and Gadarene.

The new cowgirl so far has suspected me, MadTheSwine, Pygmy Rugger. MTS turned out to be town so her record is not too good. That plus I never did like her reasons for suspecting these people. She has defended herself pretty well however, which has stopped her from being on the top of my scum list.

What’s suspicious about **brewha **is that he dismisses people’s defenses way too easily and with little reasoning. Here, here, here, here and here.

Then after he FOS’s Jsexton for not dying one night, he votes for Augecheek saying that beat cops are worthless anyway.

[StarvingButStrong]

Wow. Yes, it does look like I was here and there a lot. It’s too late to go through your list carefully right now – I’ll give it a better look tomorrow, and see if there’s things I should explain. Right now, a couple of things leaped out at me, starting with a post where you completely got it backwards:

@ArizonaTeach

2760: Wants to know why Queuing was so suspicious on Day Two.

What I asked was:

In the meantime, can anyone refresh my memory on what happened to the suspicions of Queuing? He’s seems to have gone from one of the most suspected to unnoticed. Was there some good evidence of towniness that I’ve forgotten? Or was it just a disgusted reaction to all the conditionals & factions & claims from our day of infamy?

I did not ask why Queuing was suspected (his probing for experience players, his insisting that CaerieD’s breadcrumb was mistrust of Blaster Master, his defensiveness when people voted or mistrusted him).

I asked why the suspicions seemed to have totally vanished after Day 2. In the midst of all those factions, all those conditional ‘lych X and then vig kill Y is mafia or Z if town’…after all that heat and storm, it seemed like Queuing went from most distrusted (I think he did a post listing all the other posts distrusting him!) and suddenly he’s pretty much trusted as town. Why? What happened?

Side Note: She apparently forgot she was the second to vote for him (without reason), followed by mafia, and it was her idea to do the conditional vig-kill with him in the mix.

Nope. I knew I’d voted for him. Since I was reading back over the thread I’d been freshly reminded of how suspicious I’d been of him back on Day 2, and I couldn’t call to mind why I’d changed.

2847: Believes there may be a bandwagon beginning about Queuing, and for some reason believes she will be blamed for it, so she votes Augecheek.

Didn’t I explain in that very post why I thought I’d be blamed? 1) No suspicions of Queuing posted for dozens of pages. 2) I ask why Queuing is no long suspicious. 3) Suddenly votes for Queuing start appearing.

Looked like cause and effect to me.

Bottom Line. I’m suspicious as all hell. Sorry, StarvingButStrong, but there’s some things in there that really, really, really need to be explained.

Well, I think your misinterpretation of my post 2760 lead to the biggest point against me, and a couple of follow up ones based on it.

One of the other larger points is that a couple of known mafia voted the same way I did on Day 2, and backed my suggestion of setting up conditional kills for Blaster Master. For the first part, I have no control over how anyone else votes. It’s apparently normal for mafia to vote along when a townie casts a vote for another townie, in an attempt to get a bandwagon rolling. Maybe that played a part, I don’t know. As for them agreeing to the idea of conditional – well, so did a whole lot of others. Proposed plans and counter plans flew like mad on Day 2.

And it’s way late – nearly 2!

If you want to point out which of the other points you find especially disturbing I’ll see if I can explain them to your satisfaction.

[MonkeyMensch]

A quick rebuttal on a couple of points queuing made with respect to me:

@Queuing

Post 703
-votes for aguecheek
Post 704
-doesn’t unvote, mentions chrisk bandwagon and votes for brewha
Post 710
-now he unvotes, but its chrisk not aguecheek
Post 711
-finally gets it right and unvotes aguecheek
(somewhat odd all of these errors, could be scum ensuring a vote for non-scum gets there, or could just be errors)

What is odd about that pair of errors is that we have a no-editing rule. I was following that rule and forced to make new posts to correct the errors. I’m sure players panicked and were flummoxed by my choices for up to five minutes!

Post 1848
-something about Sir Andrew, after aguecheek had voted for him, no defense ( I am assuming this is a joke I don’t get)

Yes, it was a joke you didn’t get. See Twelfth Night for more yuks.

So what do I get out of this? Well the first thing that strikes me is the large number of “nothing posts” (for clarification I put drinking posts, joke posts and rule clarification posts here generally). He has 33 of them out of a total of 70 posts. This is the highest percent yet.

Nothing posts? Posts where I might express bewilderment or enjoyment of the game, or maybe compliment another player on a good post? Shit! I’ve been enjoying myself: SCUM_TELL!

The second thing that strikes me is the constant FOSing and voting for brewha. Brewha for the most part hasn’t struck anybody else as much of anything. This could of course mean many things, but I find it odd. Much like I found it odd that glee kept coming up in a lot of the known scum’s posts. So why is MM picking on him? Because he knows he isn’t scum, and its an easy target? Because he knows he is scum and this gives the impression of voting while doing very little? Because he has picked up on something the rest of us have missed? The most likely, IMO, would be one of the first 2 options.

I love your second option: I vote and FOS constantly while doing very little. Other than expressing whom I suspect and voting on those ideas what would you have me do?

The 3rd thing that strikes me is that he claims to have read the thread numerous times, one of the only people to make this claim. Yet he provides little to no analysis that is new and refreshing.

When I read the thread I see ballpark 75% sincere, innocent groping in the dark mixed with 25% clever, misleading deceit. It’s tough to tell the difference, so I try to read for subtext or motivation for the post, rather than its content. I come up with sparse notes about feelings and intuition on a couple or three players. So far the mafiosi have not been in the habit of dropping thier wallets and purses on the ground to be found…

So in conclusion, I think we have a scum here.

Really?

I’ve voted and unvoted at various times for 2 citizens, 2 mafiosi and 4 players who are still in the game, their identities not yet established.

You, on the other hand, have voted and unvoted for 8 citizens, 2 mafiosi and three players still unknowns in the game. Maybe we could start using you as a bizarro-detective…

I having fun because I swear I remember NAF telling to at the start of the game. So I will do so.

[MonkeyMensch]

@Queuing

StarvingButStrong, you may want to read that by MM again. He says the mafia did go after pima. …

Actually, I said that a possible motive also existed for the SK to have gone after pimaspinner. I don’t know how valuable the post mortems of who did what when both the victims are citizens can be, but I wanted to point out that possibility.

[Malacandra]

@StarvingButStrong

Isn’t that the opposite of what all the math posters have said? Where’s Malacandra? Yoo hoo!

Ditto to what Queuing said. A single-role result is the least likely to be true. The odds are much improved now to how they were a few days ago, but still about 2:1 against.