Ditto – I’ll vote as soon as I finish grading this stack of papers and have a chance to read through the investigation posts.
Lunchtime for me. My weekend was somewhat busy.
Re: Monkey Mensch and you. I have answered everytime you have asked me to about MM. Yes, there is one point that shows he might just be town. Yes he did vote for SP. Yes it was the tieing vote. However it is quite possible that it was scum just seeing where the bandwagon was heading and getting on it so that they could make the very same defense you are now making.
I did not “brush off” your accusations of Lakai. What I said was I hadn’t had time to peruse your broken links, and repost of what BM said. Also that Lakai had been investigated by a known cop and came up citizen. No, this is not definitive, but it is good enough for now. Thats it. Don’t know why you are so sensitive about the subject.
How did I become “trusted”? Well I don’t know that I am, but wouldn’t it be just as good of a question why I was so distrusted the first day? Well I can answer that question (again) if you would like.
First off I came up with this idea for everyone to tell how much experience they had in this game. I also said this might not be a good idea, but hey I was going to ask it anyway. This became me fishing for experienced players. So I guess this wasn’t such a good idea.
Then it was because I went after sturmhauke day 1. Day 1 votes were being done for no good reason. I had a reason to vote for him, he had survived while the top players from game 1 had not. Not a very good reason, but hey gots to vote someone.
The 3rd thing that seemed to have pinged scumdars was my willingness to believe ChrisK when he said he was a cop. This was because I have always thought the easiest thing to do is just believe every role claim, and keep believing until its proven false. I know that Chrisk’s claim was dumb, and in no way true, but that didn’t matter. I believed him until it could be proven false. He did say Enfant Terrible was town, and he was town.
Then came my believing in BM as the crumb from our detective. I would like to point out (as I said many times then) that was not about not believing that menecchio was the crumb, rather it was our inability to know who for sure was the crumb, and therefore believing all were the crumb. To refresh CaerieD had trustes menecchio, distrusted BM and Auto and voted for sturm. Since I believed auto was just playing and not scum (at that time) I FOS’d BM. This lead to day 2. Day 2 I was convinced that I had found a scum, and hence all of the arguments. I was so convinced that, since I didn’t make a role claim (not having a role), the only solution was lynch me and kill based on what I was. This seemed to be the starting point for people believing I am town.
From then on a few people have attempted to start a bandwagon on me. I don’t know what to say. I think my work has shown me to be town. I have not lied in this game, nor have I changed the way I acted. I have always talked a lot, I have always believed role claims, and I have always acted in what I thought was the town’s best interests.
Wow, someone did me. You brave soul Aguecheek.
::Starts slow clap for Aguecheek::
Queuing, after that post I went back and checked on the day two fiasco. Since then, I have gone thru Aguecheeck’s summary. You definetly are consistent - which is a very townish trait to have.
I had suspicions that you may be the SK, but your day two attempt at being martyr squished that notion. It is all or nothing with the SK, and dying early would win you nothing if you were indeed the SK. You were practically begging for us to kill you to move the game along.
I’m not saying I completely trust you, but you’ve given me no reason not to.
Fine, fine. Now where’s the **Rysto ** recap, Augecheek? 
That’s a very fine summary by Aguecheek. However, that Beat Cop claim still rings false to me. That plus the extra long summary seem to say, “Look how helpful I am, I’m a townie! No, really!” Is that irrational of me? Maybe. But there’s so much information to digest, I don’t know if I can cross reference everything and get a more logical answer. So there it is.
Vote Aguecheek.
And now for the unpopular part of my presentation…I think my original investigation on Queuing as Serial Killer was correct.
I did a hell of a lot of reading this weekend, and I noticed a couple of things that one can’t point to in a single post, but as a whole, it’s pretty funky.
Queuing appeals to the authority of trusted townies. See his approval of Rysto’s and storyteller’s analyses. See his jumping all over JSexton’s fingering of BlasterMaster as the SK (more on that). See his statements that he’ll vote with pimaspinner or storyteller. He’s trying to appear helpful, and trying to stay on the town’s good side by siding himself with those who’re trusted.
This wasn’t evident at first when he was involved in that kerfuffle with BlasterMaster et al. I contend that he was not yet on his game yet; hadn’t found his sea legs, if you will. I admit the first 2 days is a bit of a weak point in this theory. But a couple of things still come out of that. As I’ve mentioned before, he called BM scum several times, but doesn’t call him the Serial Killer until after JSexton pegs him as such. After that, he pushes for BM’s lynching based solely on that fact, no other reasoning is given.
He claims to “believe all claims.” And indeed, has recently posted to that effect. All claims, that is, except for BM, zuma, and Pleonast. Apparently, it wasn’t in his best interest at the time. He came around later, but was quite petulant about it for some time.
He’s willing to die, and has encouraged us to lynch him several times. Counterproductive? Perhaps. A couple of people have posted that his willingness has made him seem more town than before. A small point, but still.
He whitewashes or downplays parts that make him look bad or could make him look bad:
After calling on low-count posters to defend ourselves, sturmhauke and I respond, quite angrily. I point out that not only did he miss my vote for him, my only defense at that point was for voting the same as he did against sturmhauke. His reply? “I’m sorry I had the vote count wrong.” A small post, lost in the rest. No acknowledgement of his previous vote for what had proven to be a bad idea.
Additionally, last night even - there were no votes for investigations other than MadTheSwine’s, asking that I post my results first. Pygmy Rugger agreed with him; so did Queuing, with the caveat that he saw no reason to be investigated again, “but, whatever.” These were the only people that suggested investigatees. His response the next day? “I don’t know why I was investigated on one person’s decision…” And doesn’t make any mention of it again; not even to respond to my clarification soon after his post.
Every list of people to be investigated or analyzed includes his name, near the end in a dismissive manner - “Oh…and me, I suppose…!” Not part of the main list, but tucked in there so he can claim he wasn’t trying to hide.
These last three are points about his dismissiveness that I’ve noticed, as they relate to me for the most part. I’m quite certain there are others who’ve noticed the same things.
And most damning - his complete back-and-forth when it comes to identifying and lynching the Serial Killer.
As noted, he was all for lynching Blaster Master for JSexton’s FOS of him as the SK. But that was only after. Before it was just because he was “scum.” Post 1414: It is in everyone’s best interest to get the Serial Killer.
But by post 1899, he’s not concerned with the SK anymore. Getting mafia is more important. He says this to Fern Forest. To MadTheSwine. He tells everyone he’s done talking about the SK. He refuses to discuss it with me. He tells everyone, that the Mafia needs to get a simple majority to win. But that the SK needs to kill 27. Plenty of time to get the SK. Why does he de-emphasize the Serial Killer? Because there was no firm suspect as yet. People would be looking around for one, and he didn’t want the attention. Why’d he say the SK needed to take out 27 people? He was hoping that people wouldn’t call him on it and that they’d figure he was right…27 is still a lot of people, after all. He refused to discuss it with me after I called him on it.
By 2400, he’s back to saying that we need to kill the Serial Killer. Why? Because pimaspinner had determined that Fern Forest was the SK. And 50/50 chance is good enough for him, by golly.
And finally. His last list of people to investigate (#2917) started with poor glee. That was who he was hoping I’d investigate rather than him. Who died that night? pimaspinner and glee. We don’t know who killed who, but I’m willing to bet that Queuing, as the Serial Killer, killed glee.. He was hoping that I would pick the first one on his list, then use that against me, claiming that I was mafia, that I had had glee killed and then be able to claim to have “investigated” him with no worries of contradiction. Once I clarified why I investigated him instead, that’s the last we heard of it…Except for MonkeyMensch who noticed I seemed to go off on my own for investigating and is now the target of Queuing’s push.
And I also investigated him and he came up Serial Killer. 50/50 chance, perhaps, but like Queuing says, that’s good enough for me.
These are my thoughts on my analysis of his posts. He talks a lot. He jokes about it, and hopes that you’ll laugh along with him. And then hides in the noise he’s created.
I’m not trying to start a bandwagon, I’m laying out the reasons for why I’m now Voting Queuing, and why I’ll vote for him until I’m dead.
Great, after reading everything I’m more confused than I was before. Aargh!
:smack:
I think I’m going to vote brewha again, because though his posts are reasonable enough, his voting pattern still looks as scummy as it did last time. Also, he seems to have gotten into a one-on-one with Lakai, who by pimaspinner’s investigation has a much-better-than-even chance of being town. Also, I don’t have the foggiest idea who else to vote for.
That’s one way of looking at it, and you’re welcome to your opinion. I’m not trying to point out how helpful I am; I’m still incredibly suspicious of Queuing, and I was quite unhappy that no one was volunteering to look at his posts. So I did it. And I’ve posted what I’ve gleaned from his posts. You’re welcome to do the same and come to your own conclusion.
I remain suspicious of both you guys, actually. Maybe Queuing is the SK, but I still think you’re Mafia.
By “you”, I mean Aguecheek. Stupid inconvenient page break.
Oh man, how I wish. I was really hoping to get some cool role, but alas all I am is town.
True, I did vote with Pimaspinner when he claimed. So did a lot of other people. I also voted with storyteller…well until today when after doing much reading of people’s posts I think MM is more likely to be scum, and would rather go after him first.
No other reason given? I had stated my case many times over about BM, and why I thought he was scum. I never considered him to be the SK because I have no idea how to tell who the SK is. I don’t like the inclusion of this role I have decided because there are no ways to tell who the hell he or she is. They get to act just like anybody else, maybe quieter, maybe louder, but there are no specific SK tells. Or at least none that I know of.
Here I was quite mad. I totally thought that I had found some dirty rotten scum. Then they all of a sudden all became to claim. It seemed fishy at first, and I refused to believe it because I was so damn smart that I knew I had caught them. After a while, and I believe I even wrote this, I said dammit, I have to believe them. Its the only sensible way I can go about playing this game IMO. So I did. Add that to the whole conspiracy theory about BM being a little to farfetched to be believed, and the lack of mason counter-claims, well I had to accept their claims didn’t I? Don’t see how this is any different then all of the rest of us. Nor do I see how this is me pushing with no reasons.
Yes I am willing to die if I must. I still win or lose with my team right? I don’t want to do however, nor do I want to lose, and that is why I take the time to answer all of these accusations.
Huh? When have I ever done this? I have repeatedly reminded people of how I first came to be suspicious, I have never hidden my feelings about any person or how I think they are acting, nor have I ever tried to downplay me part in the day 2 fiasco.
What should I have said? Oh lord please forgive me for not getting these vote counts correct? Sturmhauke was angry about me FOSing some of the low post players because he was one. He had pointed out that that was a terrible idea in the last game. I was aware of this. What do you want from me? How many rosaries (or something I am not catholic) do I need to do to make up for this error? Nor has “it been proven to be a bad idea” I am afraid to tell you this but just because sturmhauke and you don’t like it, it doesn’t make it bad. In fact Rysto has suggested going after low count posters, as has Pleonast. What was a potential bad idea last game is not necessarily a bad idea this game.
This is a lie. Other posters did suggest you go after other people, I myself did. You took the agreeing with MTS about you reporting first as agreeing to investigate me. That is fine. You claim to be a cop. You ultimately have the right to investigate whom you please.
Yes, “whatever”. See above. I can make suggestions but that is. That is all any of us can do. So if you feel as though you must investigate me then do so. I can’t stop you, hence “whatever”. Your clarification was basically the same thing that you had said before. I don’t agree with it. I think multiple had asked you to investigate someone else. I think you taking the agreement with MTS on one thing meant another. I don’t happen to think this is a big deal, and not worth fighting for. Mostly because I don’t know if you are the cop yet. I think if you are, you have played this game very badly and wasted many a nights investigation. However I did not want to come right out and say that, but if you would like me too I will. I also think CaerieD played horribly. I think if you are a cop, then the only cop who played at all well was pimaspinner, and this sucks for the town. Now I don’t think I have played very well at all either, however it seems one of the main reasons the town won last game was because of the excellent seer play. We were not so lucky this time.
Yes, I suppose that is true. This is because I know what I am, and don’t see a need to investigate me because of it. However I understand that you don’t know what I am, and may want to investigate me. It seems you have investigated me. Twice even. I thought it was more of a friendly fun joke type thing but YMMV. I do think there are better people to investigate then people you have already done.
Dismiss you? Have I not taking the time to answer the vast majority of any accusations levelled at me? Or is this thrown in there because brewha to felt that I was dismissing him because he didn’t like my answer towards lakai? Wow, I didn’t realize I had such power. Oh wait I don’t. Check the votes. No one is voting with me.
Lot to deal with here. What I said, actually, was that we were discussing who the SK was when we did not need to at that time. To this day I have no idea, beyond dumb luck, how the SK will be found. Since the town is not the only people who need worry about the SK (in that the mafia need to get him/her as well), that perhaps we ought to let them worry about it for a bit. By a bit I meant one night. I don’t recall the exact numbers but I believe we were had yet to kill any mafia, with nesta being killed by the SK we think. I thought it behooved the town to try to get 2 scum that night, and then worry about the SK. We have the means at our hands to get scum (posts and scum tells) we do not for the SK. I thought our energies would be better served looking after the scum for that ONE night. As I clearly stated.
That takes care of why I am worried about the SK again I think. Even though to be honest, no I don’t think we can be worried about the SK today either. I think its time the mafia worried about the SK. As the only tools we have are posts, and I don’t see how the SK will have tells, we should use what we have and try to get another scum. To each his own however.
Umm, I believe I had been asking for glee to be investigated for a long time. Check your posts. Yep I had been. Did I just put glee on my list? Nope I did not. So out of that you get the above? huh?
Huh? You can’t be serious can you? Have I not called for you to live? At least for a little while? And out of reading my posts, where I unvote you when you claim, where I say hey we need to let him live in case he is telling the truth you get some of the above convoluted logic, that I was going to try to lynch you today? I say again, HUH? Seriuosly where are you getting any of the above from?
True enough. And it would have been. Except you know you investigated me again and I came up town? So using that math again it is much more likely that you were right the second time and wrong the first time. In other words you are trying to start up a bandwagon, but you are a day late. I commend you and brewha however. Nice try, and if it succeeds, well then I die :). I am still just a townie. And I still think MM is the most likely scum that is out there.
Any other questions?
you guys, I am SO sorry, I have been through a week from hell that has ended with me with a sinus infection. I got started with my list of Kat’s posts last night but I couldn’t finish it, I will do so tonight and read through the thread. I feel terrible. I don’t mean to abandon y’all.
I’ll be back in a bit.
Just so you know (in case you missed my earlier post) there are less 24 hours left in the day. If I am counting correctly there are in fact 17 hours 45 minutes left.
Not telling you what to do, just reminding you that there isn’t much time left to do it in.
I’ll go with vote Aguecheek for now, althoyugh Brewha also seems suspcious.
I do have to say though, that i find the long post summaries to be eye-glazingly tedious and unhelpful. It’s the kind of non-information that seems informative that scum would use.
Yes, but you’ve made quite sure to announce each time that you’re voting with them. To pima: “I still see no reason to not vote how you say.” Re: storyteller, voting for Pygmy Rugger: “Voting for you because Storyteller did.”
No other reasons why you were fingering BM as the SK, other than that JSexton had decided he was. Why not stick with scum in general, or mafia?
Yup, you were definitely mad. But you specifically said: “I don’t believe you. I think you are the SK…My vote stands.” Why’d you think he was the SK? Because of JSexton? And I did concede that you unvoted later.
You do still win or lose with your team. I just think your team is the Serial Killer. And you’ve been very upfront with your desire to help the town, posing as Helpful Queuing.
I was kind of hoping you’d say something along the lines of “You were right. I did miss that vote. And I did miss your defense of why you originally voted for sturmhauke, for the same reasons I did. Thanks for pointing that out.” I’m stating that the bad idea was voting for sturmhauke in the first place, not FOSing low-count posters.
Exactly! And I posted that reason right after you did. And I didn’t even get a “oh yeah - I can see how you would think that.” I didn’t get any response. Even after you’d posted how much you were looking forward to my posting the result. Even after it seemed to exonerate you.
Yes, dismiss me. This is the first time you’ve responded significantly to anything I’ve asked you. “Hey Queuing…the SK doesn’t need to kill all 27 people, just be alive at the end.” One would expect something along the lines of “Woops. You’re right.” I got “I’m not discussing that anymore.”
Yes, you did. I’m just pointing out that you seem very inconsistent when calling for the lynching of the SK. Only when we have a “solid” lead, and then it’s really important? Why not ask around and see if anyone’s got any other ideas how we could find him?
Yes, you have been calling for glee for some time. I don’t deny that. I thought it odd that you put your investigation list prominently up near the end of the day, and glee just happened to die that night. And immediately after, you come up with your own reason why you think the SK targeted him. By pinning the blame on me, you got MTS killed, and next would’ve been me. Two more down, and Queuing lives another day.
Concerning the Serial Killer:
There’s 18 people left in the game. We’ve killed 4 Mafia, out of probably 9. So the factions are 12 Town vs 5 Mafia vs 1 SK. Who’s ahead here? If the Town is ahead, we should try to lynch the SK as soon as possible. If the Mafia is ahead, we should let them kill the SK. Kind of like a game of chicken.
If we lynch a Mafia each day, we’ll win in 5 days (ignoring the SK for now), 8 vs 0. If we make one mistake, we’ll win in 6 days, 6 vs 0. Two mistakes: 4 vs 0 after 7 days. Three mistakes: 2 vs 0 after 8 days. Four or more mistakes: we lose.
Add in the SK. Each excess Town death (a Townie killed either by us or the SK) brings us closer to losing. If the SK kills a Townie each night, assuming the best case of us lynching a Mafia each day, we’ll have eliminated the Mafia, 4 vs 0 after 5 days. So we can win if we lynch only Mafia or the SK each night, no matter what they do.
If we lynch one Townie by mistake, the outcome can go either way. If we get the SK early, we’re ok. If we make the mistake early, and fail to get the SK until later, we’ll lose, unless the SK kills more Mafia than Town. Basically, if we lynch one more Townie, it’s the SK’s game to lose.
I am sorry but I still fail to see your point here. Pimaspinner was a cop, and of course I would vote with him. You may also have noticed that I voted with people who knew more then I did, such as a cop, and hence their vote has a better chance of being correct, so yes I followed them.
As to storyteller, well I don’t remember who it was who FOS’d storyteller and starvingbutstrong so I looked at storyteller’s posts. Lo and behold I think his postinig looks town. Not only that he seems to have been right a lot. I have been wrong a lot. So I put my vote with him while I did more research.
And this makes me the scummiest of them all, the SK?
What difference does it make? Anyway… I went with SK because I thought, at the time, that a good case had been made for him having a killing role. Since I thought he was anti-town, well there is only one killing role left, isn’t there?
Again, I fail to see your point here. I went after BM, and kept going after BM, until he was able to prove that he was town. Maybe I am wrong, but if I see a scum (I think) I will go after said scum until they convince me otherwise. I suppose like you are doing here
Good of you to concede the truth. Yes, I was mad. No I didn’t believe him. I didn’t WANT to believe him. I thought, at the time, it sounded fishy that this guy just made a role claim. Yes, I was convinced partly by JSexton. There was another person who also believed BM had a killing role, and made some statements about it (maybe PR? Forgive me, I have read a lot of posts the last couple days)
So whats the point of this questioning? You concede that I changed my mind just like I said I did, when I was no longer mad, and yet you make point again? Sorry man, no one is that stupid that you will catch them in a lie this quick.
Why thank you Sarcastic Aguecheek :). My team is town however.
Meh, I still think low count posters might be hiding in the bushes. Or at least not helping. Of course I might be talking to damn much to be helpful either. YMMV.
I don’t think voting sturmhauke was a bad idea, sorry. It was day 1. Random voting was all the vogue.
Oh you mean the other time I voted for sturmhauke? Again, meh. Sturmhauke was a lot more active in game 1 then he had been in game 2. I thought this was odd. Apparently he has internet problems. Ok then. Good of you to anoint yourself protector of masons however. You will not get an apology from me for you FOSing low count posters or Sturmhauke sorry. If Sturmhauke feels aggrieved by my accusations I may apologize to him. I doubt he will feel that way though.
Umm sorry? I didn’t mean to ignore you. I still love you. You are a good beat cop. Look I have even spelled your name right all this time!
Yeah, I was looking forward to what you had to say. Unfortunately you continued your horrible play and investigate someone a second time. Sorry I wasn’t thrilled you wasted yet another night.
Ah, I think I know what you mean. Yes you are right. Feel better? No? Hmmm…
Sorry I wasn’t exactly sure what time you were talking about before. I thought you were talking about the time I said we shouldn’t worry about the SK and instead should focus on scum. I caught a lot of flack for that, and explained myself like 3 times. I did it one last time, and then said that was it. You should have known what I was saying about the SK by then, and agree/disagree I couldn’t change your minds nor would anyone benefit from my repeating myself. Yet here we are…
That would be sweet. Got any? Don’t know how that is inconsistent mind you. Me saying “hey lets not worry about the SK because I don’t know how we can find him”. Then someone going “hey this is how we can find them, and here is who I think it is”, me again “cool, sounds good lets kill them”.
So this is inconsistent thinking? I am afraid, sir, that it is not, and your idea has blinded you to seeing that.
So it was odd that I showed my list? Huh? How is this odd? The cop asks for suggestions and I give them, yet I make it to prominent? Huh? Sorry next time I will use a smaller font :dubious: .
Pinning the blame on you? Getting MTS killed? You still have my posts handy? Mind showing me where I did this? Because you know, I didn’t vote for MTS, nor did I say “hey glee was killed to make me look suspicous because aguecheek didn’t investigate him like I suggested, therefore aguecheek must be killed”/ Oh wait I didn’t.
Nor have I voted for you. Not that that matters, because enough don’t believe that you are the cop. Myself, being you know consistent, would rather keep you alive, god knows why however as you have done an absolute shite job of being the beat cop if you are him.
So any other questions? Or do we have to rehash this over and over until the end of the day?
A question for Menecchio while I believe we have gained less then I had hoped from this exercise, do you have any better ideas? Or are you just saying I don’t like this while suggesting nothing else?
A question for the others, what do you feel we gain from the hanging of aguecheek over say monkey mensch or lakai or malacandra or brewha or cowgirl or me? None of us have claimed cop. Or are sure enough that the information he may provide would be useless?
Thank you!
Of course, one post later you suggest I might be the SK. So maybe I’ll escape this day unhung just to be done in by the mafia. :eek:
This is an…interesting…town to live in, isn’t it?