Werewolf a game Part 2 (this time with MAFIA!)

[nesta]

@sturmhauke

On that note, I’m going to throw out a vote for nesta. Until now, nesta has neither voted nor been voted for. So, whadda ya say to that?

I wish I’d had a chance to vote yesterday, but by the time I was done catching up the day was over. I was hoping that Day 1 would last a couple more real-time days so I could get a handle on who was who and not just cast a paranoia vote.

[zuma]

@Menocchio

We can’t control the Vig, the Vig just ends up firing blindly if they don’t have a good target (and they rarely will), and the SK isn’t on our side. We need them both stopped. When that happens, we go from losing three a night to only one.

I don’t think the vig is firing blindly. I can think of a few good targets if I were the vig. vig basically gives us two mafia targets, no?

[Pleonast]

After quickly skimming everything since the day started:

My very first trust/mistrust was hypothetical (as was my first vote). Don’t put any weight on switching from that.

Why I like the trust/mistrust lists: it helps summarize what each poster thinks. This makes it easy for someone skimming the thread to get an idea of general thoughts. Yes, it will help the Mafia, but it helps us too. And we’re the ones that need info. Makes it easier for the more casual players to make informed decisions.

That said, the lists must be used with caution. It’s unfortunate the Detective didn’t play carefully enough.

I’ll post more after I’ve read in more detail.

[zuma]

My thinking is that while the town kill is a general mish-mash of mostly town but a good portion of scum, the vig is 100% town acting in the town’s best interest. Since our only weapons to eliminate scum are the lynch and the vig kill, losing the vig is a bad thing at this point in this game. The SK is a wild-card at this point.

[Menocchio]

@zuma

I don’t think the vig is firing blindly. I can think of a few good targets if I were the vig. vig basically gives us two mafia targets, no?

The Vig lacks the accountability and quality control of the lynchings. They can’t ask for feedback on who to target. They don’t allow for the target to role-claim or defend their actions. They just kill. They’re a liability and should be stopped.

[Gadarene]

Pleonast:

Yes, [making trust lists] will help the Mafia, but it helps us too. And we’re the ones that need info. Makes it easier for the more casual players to make informed decisions.

I think this is the most important point made so far today. Scum already know who’s scum and who isn’t; it’s the ordinary joes out there that most benefit from additional information.

zuma:

My thinking is that while the town kill is a general mish-mash of mostly town but a good portion of scum, the vig is 100% town acting in the town’s best interest. Since our only weapons to eliminate scum are the lynch and the vig kill, losing the vig is a bad thing at this point in this game. The SK is a wild-card at this point.

Menocchio:

The Vig lacks the accountability and quality control of the lynchings. They can’t ask for feedback on who to target. They don’t allow for the target to role-claim or defend their actions. They just kill. They’re a liability and should be stopped.

I think I agree with zuma here. While the Vig can’t ask for feedback on who to target, he or she can certainly read what’s being written and decide for themselves. Unless it becomes increasingly clear that the Vig is picking off town right and left, that’s good enough for me.

[MadTheSwine]

How come there were only 2 kills last night? NAF1138 ,if a Miller blocks a role player, are we told about it somehow,or is it not mentioned in anyway?

[zuma]

The vig is a moot point anyway. SK is scum along with mafia. Personally I have no idea who the SK is at this point. The vig has to kill at night, so they should just probably target anyone appearing anti-town.

[Menocchio]

@zuma

The vig is a moot point anyway. SK is scum along with mafia. Personally I have no idea who the SK is at this point. The vig has to kill at night, so they should just probably target anyone appearing anti-town.

True enough. My point is really just that we should never spare the SK to preserve the vig kill.

[Kat]

@Gadarene

Here’s what I don’t understand: it’s not to anyone’s benefit—particularly any townsperson—to intentionally act suspicious, right? It can’t possibly help them. So what the hell gives with Autolycus and chrisk? Do they just not care?

At this point, I don’t think Autolycus is scum. I doubt that a Mafia member would continue to attract negative attention for so long after being explicitly informed that it’s both annoying and suspicious. He’s probably Civilian, just not a very helpful Civilian. He’s determined that having fun posting in a Mafia dialect is more important than giving analysis or avoiding a lynching. And who’s to say he’s wrong?

[QUOTE=Gadarene]
I think this is the most important point made so far today. Scum already know who’s scum and who isn’t; it’s the ordinary joes out there that most benefit from additional information.[Gadarene]

And this is why Blaster Master’s fake list irks me. Posting fake info doesn’t help the us at all.

[Kat]

Damn lousy coding. Grrrrr…

[Menocchio]

And by “we” I mean both the voting population and the Vig.

[zuma]

We can argue the point at such time as we have a SK suspect

Also, I’m not willing to let Autocylus off the hook. He’s yelling “I’m mafia!” far and wide. Whatever the case, he’s harming whichever side he’s on. He’s probably going to get killed soon either by town or by vig or by SK. If he’s town, he has contributed nothing but distraction and getting a townie killed off. If he’s mafia, he’s going to get strung up or offed soon enough.

My thoughts on him are that he’s not helping the town at all. He may be mafia doing a crazy gambit whereby he distracts and throws it in our face in order to slow down real information-gathering.

He’s also broken the rules by strategizing at night and editing his posts.

For now I’m going to ignore him.

[Suburban_Plankton]

I haven’t gone back to review the entire thread yet (14 pages?!? Oh well, I guess the lawn can wait another week to get mowed), but I have a few thoughts based on posts from the last 12 hours or so.

@chrisk

Blame me for being a weathervane, and I’ll cop to it.

I find the phrasing rather interesting here. Is the use of the word ‘cop’ just a coincidence, or is **chrisk **trying to tell us something? Right now, he’s on my “suspect” list, but that’s mainly based on guilt by association from being trusted by both **Pleonast **and Blaster Master. He didn’t quite role-claim on Day 1; is he not quite role-claiming again here?

@Pleonast

Why I like the trust/mistrust lists: it helps summarize what each poster thinks. This makes it easy for someone skimming the thread to get an idea of general thoughts. Yes, it will help the Mafia, but it helps us too. And we’re the ones that need info. Makes it easier for the more casual players to make informed decisions.

**Pleonast **seems to be alone in still wanting everyone to make their “trust/untrust” lists. And I just don’t buy the “helps casual players” angle. All it’s going to do for casual players is encourage them to hop on whatever bandwagon happens to be passing by at the moment. We saw on Day 1 how well that works.
**Menocchio **really wants the Vigilante killed. I know that he’s the closest thing that we have to a confirmed citizen, but his single-mindedness of purpose lately is concerning. The odds on him being the Godfather in this game after having been the Alpha-Wolf last time seem rather staggering, but it’s not impossible.
At this point I think I want to vote for Pleonast, but I’m going to hold off until I get the chance to skim over the whole thread again.

[Suburban_Plankton]

NAF1138

Can we get an official vote tally? My spreadsheet is on the other computer, and I’m just feeling too lazy to go get it, and then spend half an hour updating it.

Thanks

[cowgirl]

Bah! Well, at least I get to drink all day while you guys are here working it all out. I hear they’re having nachos over in that other thread.

Go Citizens! I’ll be rooting for you from above.

grumble grumble … I knew I shouldn’t have made that spreadsheet …

[MadTheSwine]

@MadTheSwine

How come there were only 2 kills last night? NAF1138 ,if a Miller blocks a role player, are we told about it somehow,or is it not mentioned in anyway?

The rules state that the SK and Mafia don’t have to kill at night but the VIG does have to.
I am really trying to think of a good reason for one of the factions not to kill someone,I can’t,I can think of reasons but none of them make any sense. One of the pro-town power roles(Miller,Doc or GA) must have blocked one of the kills.
** Naf1138** can you clarify what happens in your death announcements if a pro-town role blocks a kill?

[Kat]

Hey, cowgirl! Bring us back some nachos from the forbidden thread!

[Queuing]

@Blaster Master

On further analysis, I’d like to expand on point 3 of my recent post (post 620). Our strategy is fundamentally flawed at this time. Let’s evaluate my analysis was further, that cowgirl was killed by the mafia and CaerieD was killed by the VIG/SK. From my observation, cowgirl was relatively inactive in posting yesterday and, as far as I can tell, managed to stay under EVERYONE’s radar, neither on anyone’s trust or distrust list. In retrospect, it’s clearly more of an artifact of the speed at which the thread is moving; however, this is precisely the sort of tell I’d expect mafia to pick up on for a power roll: doctor trying to lay low, detective trying to gather some information before outing herself, or vig trying to slowly pick people off. Meanwhile, CaerieD made several posts, a few of which, at least to me, looked suspsicious, like supporting the “pretend to be a cop” idea (obviously, in hindsight, she agreed because she WAS a cop), and also voted to lynch Sturmhauke originally, which, as many had pointed out, looked like a mafia bandwagon.

What’s the point of all this? Worst case, which seems to be the likely one, the VIG killed our detective, and even in best case, he still killed a townie. I made a suggestion at least twice yesterday that we should not only be voting on a lynch, but we should also be discussing the nighttime target of the VIG. The VIG is stuck between a rock and a hard place because, maybe he should off the #2 vote getter, but what if he REALLY doesn’t think he’s mafia or SK or actually is, in fact, the #2 vote getting? Essentially, the VIG was shooting in the dark last night, and that cost us. Now that we don’t have a detective, and we’re several townies down, we REALLY need to start trying to take better advantage of the VIG role, because he and the doctor are the only two roles now that can help catch up. If we play our cards right and get a good lynching AND a good night target for the VIG, we can potentially make up for a bad lynching and the bad night we had.

Also, as part of my scanning to make my point above, I came across two interesting posts of CaerieD’s which leads me to believe that the general sentiment of what her breadcrumb is is incorrect. One post which has been pointed out isthat she trusted Menacchio #326 , but in the same post she also mentioned she distrusted Autolycus (and Enfant Terrible ** as well, but that was obviously not the breadcrumb). Even more interesting, soon after day one started in post #261, she states that she doesn’t trust Autolycus. That’s even before we started the whole trust/mistrust list. So my question to you all is, was her breadcrumb that Menacchio is town-friendly or that Autolycus ** is scum? Based on the post order, I’m more inclined to believe the latter, or am I missing something?

Yes you are missing something. You were on our fair detective’s mistrust list. You are scum IMO, and must die.

[MadTheSwine]

@chrisk

Okay, based on an idea that StarvingButStrong had in the werewolf commentary thread, I’m proposing an Open Detection System

Hypothetically, for the purpose of this post, I’m claiming that I’m a cop of some sort. Last night, I investigated Enfant Terrible and found him to be vanilla citizen

@Suburban Plankton

I find the phrasing rather interesting here. Is the use of the word ‘cop’ just a coincidence, or is chrisk trying to tell us something? Right now, he’s on my “suspect” list, but that’s mainly based on guilt by association from being trusted by both Pleonast and Blaster Master. He didn’t quite role-claim on Day 1; is he not quite role-claiming again

Ok, as much as I thought the ODS was silly,it does appear that chrisk might be a cop.He did correctly identify Enfant Terrible as a vanilla citizen.Though he may have got lucky in that guess,I think we might want to carry justice out on someone else at this point.