Because at the bare minimum, they care about their impact sufficiently enough to make a big and limiting lifestyle choice.
Sure, there are vegans who act immorally because of their veganism, such as the ones who malnourish their newborns with vegan food, but they are just a small minority of extremists.
Am I the only one who thinks it’s presumptuous to talk about the Vegan diet until we’ve actually been to Vega and seen what they eat there? Maybe they only eat food with a face.
I think you missed the point of what I wrote.
And the tiny little stools are so cute.
One of the worst human beings of my acquaintance (my ex-sister in law) was a vegan. By the way, her diet was LOADED with processed foods and she was overweight. But I often saw her put away an entire bag of organic potato chips at a sitting.
I’ve known lovely people who were vegan or vegetarian, and lovely people who were omnivores.
This I don’t understand either. If you are against eating animals, why eat something that looks like and tries to taste like you are eating animals?
If you are eating vegan bacon because you are trying to eat healthier…you’re doing it wrong.
I can think of several people in my life right now who are not vegan, and have lovely skin and loads of energy. People in their 40s and 50s, yet.
For a couple of decades, my (old-style-hippie) parents were staunchly vegetarian and anti-most-commercial food. Many people disapproved of this when they had my youngest brother, warning that he would grow up sickly and malnourished. He didn’t eat meat until he was 19 years old, and was a healthy 6’ 2" jock growing up in school (and at 40, still is.)
But when he was 19 he went to the Sudan on some university thing,and since the choice to bercome vegan or vegetarian is very much a first-world-luxury, discovered that a: if he was going to be all precious about food there, he’d die of starvation and b: meat and cheese is actually pretty damn tasty so he broke his 19-year vegetarianism and has been a meat and dairy eater ever since (he is 41 now.) Albeit an occasional one. My parents (mom in her 80s, stepfather 70s) eat meat now too, because they realised it was really difficult to travel and be vegetarian.
Ditto here - I have spent most of my life as a minimal to zero meat-eater and never a vegan. I don’t often eat meat, maybe once or twice a week. I am almost 54 and routine health testing (mams, cholesterol, heart, etc) always comes back normal and healthy. And I’ve only ever taken antibiotics twice in my life (as VOW says, there’s a really good case to be made for avoiding them when prudent, including in one’s food.)
I’m an ethical vegetarian and at least try to be an ethical vegan, but as much as I care about animal ethics, I also don’t want to drive my fellow humans bonkers, so if there’s a situation where I can’t be vegan I’m not going to flip out.
Maybe this is illogical, but I feel like I’m doing my part by just reducing my consumption of animal products. Aside from not eating meat I don’t drink dairy or eat eggs as a meal, but when there aren’t reasonable substitutes I accept those as ingredients. I’m also gradually switching out products that I use to brands that do not test on animals/use animal products and giving away to friends or donating some pieces of clothing I have that utilize animal products. On the other hand, I’m ok with holding onto some leather shoes I have that belonged to my grandmother.
I see it as being similar to someone who would normally drive all the way to work deciding to drive a short distance to the bus and taking the bus for the rest of the commute. They’re still reducing their carbon emissions or whatever despite not totally ditching their car. I hope that analogy sort of made sense.
I also think being strict and uptight about diet, etc. creates negative perceptions about vegans and discourages people from even becoming vegetarians, because that whole lifestyle is perceived as being wacko. Therefore it would actually be better for animals if vegans just relaxed a bit, demonstrated that the lifestyle can be for “normal” people, thus maybe encouraging more to give it a try.
In terms of vegans being weak and sickly- maybe 100% hardcore vegans are because they’re starving (not literally, but I can imagine that in some situations). I’ve been in non-veggie settings where bread was the only thing I could eat, and if I’d been a vegan I sure as hell would have been ill from lack of food.
I don’t think my overall energy level has changed since ditching meat. I haven’t lost weight either. My skin is always in need of some help despite daily washings/medication because of a combination of genetics and I live in New York which has some dirty air.
And in all honesty- vegan cheese tastes like glue. Leaving meat behind was easy for me. You have to be seriously committed to eat cheese that tastes like glue.
Yeah. When I visited New York a while back, I was all exited, because, hey - you guys have vegan pizza!
Except… the vegan “cheese” that was on all of it… seriously, I still have nightmares about it. 
Well, back to my hopeless search for cheese-less pizzas.
Mostly because I sometimes still have cravings for meat. I’m aware that’s probably an indication that I’m doing something wrong- I just feel hungry all the time (I’m not overweight) and having faux meat mixed in with vegetables and my other sides helps me feel a bit more full.
I’m also a lazy cooker- I buy a bunch of prepared faux meats, cook them with veggies, etc. then stick what I’ve made in the fridge to be microwaved every morning and brought to work.
I got a vegetarian cookbook for Christmas though- one of these days I’ll flip through it and find healthier (and probably cheaper) alternatives.
ETA:
There’s an awesome pizza chain here called Two Boots. They just introduced a vegan pizza and I’ve been afraid to try it (and not only because it’s $4 a slice). I have no idea where you got your pizza from, but assuming vegan pizza technology has not improved, I will not run the risk of trying the $4 vegan pizza.
This is easy - vegetarians and vegans are against the unethical treatment of animals, factory farming, or generally killing animals for food, but that doesn’t mean they never liked meat. Therefore, meat substitutes are sought out. I don’t know any vegans or vegetarians who have done it for a healthier diet, they’ve done it to cut out the guilt over eating animals raised and slaughtered under horrific conditions.
Personally, I’ve been on the fence a bit. After reading An Omnivore’s Dilemma and watching Food, Inc., and becoming vegetarian immediately upon seeing that movie, it doesn’t mean I don’t miss meat and still like it. I just can’t participate in factory farming of animals on any level. After becoming vegetarian, I watched more movies and read more books, and still don’t feel completely against raising and killing animals for food - just completely against factory farming methods.
My compromise is that I now will only use eggs, meat and dairy from family run farms which either I or my friends have visited, or that sell at local farmers markets. Which means I’m pretty much vegan in public, at restaurants, at work, etc., when dining away from home. At home, I have meat from local farms in the freezer (not much - it’s a treat) and eggs and half and half from local farmers in the fridge. The farms are in Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin, and can be visited by whoever wants to go. I don’t trust any place selling meat that’s “fresh” (I’m looking at you, Whole Foods) because the small family farms don’t slaughter their food animals every day, and usually process and freeze the meat right away. It’s usually done every couple of months if even that often.
For the OP especially - Just being mindful of where the food going in your mouth comes from is a huge step forward, and doing some reading up and even some documentary watching (there are quite a few on Netflix Instant, including Food, Inc.) will help a lot with that.
Ok, I get what you are saying. I was just thinking they would not want to be seen to be eating meat-like products (products which could be mistake for meat) in the same way many people who are opposed to fur don’t wear fake fur because they don’t want people to think they are wearing fur.
that’s all well and good. but there have been no shortage of nature documentaries which show predators (e.g. big cats) hauling down prey and noshing big gulps while said prey is still screaming in agony. so, I hope you’ll pardon me if I don’t feel I should be held to some arbitrarily higher standard devised by some other person I’ve never met and don’t care about.
For the most part, I do not even mention to others that I am vegan, and people who are close to my family and myself are cool with how we eat. Our diet is just a small part of who we are as human beings.
People who seem to react to us with negativity, are usually people who have pre-existing attitudes about vegans and vegetarians. As if by not eating meat-we are looking down on the meat eater. Which we are not, but sometimes it feels as though they are just waiting for us to be crazy, up-tight, or superior.
After years of a vegan diet, it does feel normal, and the results are good physical health. That in itself could be encouraging to others to give the diet a try.
Big assumption, demand may go down but the supply is still there. All this does is reduce prices and therefore standards at which animals are kept, so as you can see YOU are causing more animal misery. See how easy it is to spin a message…
Although this was said in jest there is an element of truth in it. As we “normal” people care more about our how our food is prepared we put pressure back on companies to rethink animal husbandry practices, witness the rise of the free range egg, chickens and pork. In Australia at lease free range has become mainstream and good job to. If there were less as someone put it “ethical” omnivores then I don’t this would be the case.
Can soy cheese really be as good as a nice runny Roquefort?
Don’t hear much of it in Australia, the conditions we saw in FoodINC just don’t seem to happen down here as much. We don’t feed our cows corn which is the major reason for the ecoli outbreaks.
So don’t buy from super factories, problem solved and you promote healthy animal husbandry practices.
Totally makes sense, I thought similarly before I went vegetarian, and then I was like, “I miss meat!” And finally understood. Fortunately, no one ever mistook a chick’n patty for the real deal. The fake stuff is getting better all the time, but yeah, it’s not fooling anyone yet! I only eat meat once a month or so, because the stuff I buy is a drain on my wallet, so I still stock up on the not-meat substitutes.
[quote=“sisu, post:95, topic:610336”]
Big assumption, demand may go down but the supply is still there. All this does is reduce prices and therefore standards at which animals are kept, so as you can see YOU are causing more animal misery. See how easy it is to spin a message…
Although this was said in jest there is an element of truth in it. As we “normal” people care more about our how our food is prepared we put pressure back on companies to rethink animal husbandry practices, witness the rise of the free range egg, chickens and pork. In Australia at lease free range has become mainstream and good job to. If there were less as someone put it “ethical” omnivores then I don’t this would be the case.
We had a thread about that, not long ago, and it did educate me as to the fact that things are not as black and white as I previously thought. I will quote from the comments made by sailboat.
“This is the abolition vs welfare debate”
"Weather it does more good to strive to eliminate a perceived evil,* or to accept compromise with the doers of the evil to mitigate the extremity, and make incremental improvements in the lives of the perceived victims".
“For example, with the slave trade would you be an abolitionist, arguing against human slavery, or would you advocate for better treatment of the slaves, while accepting their permanent bondage?”
If you want a Vegan pizza and don’t want to mess with fakey cheese…
Order a veggie pizza with no cheese.
It’s surprisingly good!
~VOW
100% hard-line activist abolitionist [i would not argue I would act!], you CANNOT compare humans to animals in any way.
Sorry I don’t see the correlation.
I will continue to argue for better conditions for animals that are kept for meat, milk, skin etc but I will still use the meat etc in my life.
We could stretch to primates and how we care for them, I for one to do not advocate eating apes or whales but chickens, cows pigs etc? yep…