What Are Your Challenges In Being An Atheist? (Spin-off for other ??)

[Spice_Weasel]

@CJJ

To put it glibly (and I hope not insultingly), once you say “There is no God”, where do you go from there?

Thx again for reading/answering

Not to get all philosophical on you, but one reason I really like Nietzsche is that he grappled with this same question. He found a way to push beyond nihilism into some kind of life-affirming truth for himself. Now my truth may be different, but like him I have the satisfaction of knowing it’s a truth I built based on my own values.

To address one of your earlier questions, and to deviate from some of the other posters in this thread, living without God is terrifying for me. It doesn’t make my life any more comfortable or make me feel I’m any closer to understanding the nature of reality. It’s just a big messy world with horrible and wonderful things in it and I have to make some semblance of structure out of that, day after day, to keep my sanity.

I would love to believe that everything is going to be okay, that God would never give me more than I could handle, that I am loved unconditionally, that it is all part of a Divine Plan, but I don’t. I don’t believe that and I can’t. It’s a painful reality for me, but I get along the best I can.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

[quote=“CJJ, post:1, topic:427871”]

[li]How do you, as an atheist, personally deal with the cosmological argument (glibly, something caused the universe to come into existence, that something must be god)?[/li][/QUOTE]

I don’t pretend to know what caused the universe to come into existence. I dismiss the suggestion that it was god(s) because it’s unhelpful (well, what caused god to come into existence, then?)

Some religious folks derive comfort in a form of immortality promised by many religions. It is difficult to understand how knowing one will cease to exist upon death can provide a similar value, but perhaps it does or it’s compensated for in other ways. Again, this is not at all a reason to adopt religious beliefs, but I am curious if atheists feel the regret of living with certain mortality as an emotional challenge.

I don’t view mortality as an emotional challenge. Indeed, though I feel I am a good person, the vague and internally contradictory nature of religions makes it impossible to determine who goes to hell and who goes to heaven (for religions which embrace such concepts).

The certainty that I will be a pile of ashes is, if anything, quite comforting.

Religion is often tied to ethnic or cultural identities and practices. Christmas in America is a good example; though technically a religious holiday, it is for all intents and purposes a cultural celebration. What challenges do you face in keeping religion and culture personally separate, or do you think such distinctions are irrelevant and therefore not challenging (unless someone else insists on making it a challenge)?

My attitude towards religion as cultural identity is a big mishmash of pride and disdain. My family is Hindu, and to some extent I take pride in being a Hindu* because it’s the least dogmatic and most inclusive of the major religions. It’s also got more history than the others; 2,000 years, bah!

At the same time, I was born and raised in England, and attended Church of England schools, and in the same way I identify to some extent with its teachings. If I ruled the world, every church would be C of E; it’s a social organization, not a religious one. I don’t know if the Episcopal Church is the same way, and given what I know of other American churches I’d guess not.

*In the same sense that a non-practicing Jew is still a Jew. Hinduism is by its own tenets encompassing of all belief, so in that sense we’re all Hindus.

[Snickers]

Cosmological Argument: I think many theists have a simplistic view of “pre-universe” (for lack of a better word). It’s as if they think that there was simply empty space hanging around, waiting for something to fill it. But before the big bang, empty space didn’t exist. Time didn’t exist. Hell, existance didn’t exist. I don’t understand the thought that something had to cause the universe to come into existance. Why? Why is that necessary? Anything before is simply undefined; it doesn’t make any sense to really think about it. And if you must solve the “why?” with God, well, what started Him? The standard answer is usually “nothing - He’s just always been.” Why does that idea make sense and the idea that maybe nothing “caused” the big bang doesn’t? Aren’t they functionally the same? To me it just bespeaks a uncritical, human analysis of the world around: I started because of something, my cat did, my parents, my parents parents, so therefore everything must have a start, and a reason for that start. Except God, He’s special. It’s really nonsensical.

Immortality: Again, this is an uncritical, almost childish wish. Because of some “other,” I’ll get to someday live forever along with hopefully everyone I love. Have you really thought about what that means? Better writers than I have explored the idea of immortality and how it must really be a curse instead of a blessing. “Ah! But no-one will die, so you won’t have to live without your friends or loved ones!” is the standard response. I’ll admit, that does make things better some, but I still don’t think I want it. I think that way lies stagnation and despair at best, outright slavery at worst (depending on which vision of heaven is given). There’s a reason the Greek gods and the gods in Tolkien viewed human mortality as a gift.

Religious holidays: This is the easiest - I simply don’t care. I realize that many holidays have a religious underpinning, and if it’s important to the people I’m with to do something religious (such as attend a church service or whatever), it’s no trouble for me to attend as well. It’s certainly not going to hurt me at all, and if it makes my friends or loved ones happy or if they get something from it, cool. (It helps that the people I’m very closest to aren’t especially religious either; there’s no conflict in my home between a religious spouse and an atheist one. We’re both atheists.) I’m not out to change anyone’s mind. While I do see organized religion as a general hinderance to civilized society rather than a help, if an individual finds it helpful for them, I’m not one to change that. I will discuss religion politely and and critically with anyone who wants to, though.

[monstro]

I would ask anyone who is dogmatic about the afterlife to consider this question:

The average person lives to be 75 years, take or give a few. Eternity is, well, forever. Compared to forever, 75 years does not even exist. So why should your performance in this life dictate what happens to you in a “forever” life?

The imbalance in this equation would challenge intelligent Believers, I would think.

[Feyrat]

I find this thread weird. It’s like asking someone how they feel about NOT having a splinter. Do they feel left out when the people around them have a splinter? Well… no, it’s just kinda like NOT having a splinter.

[quote=“CJJ, post:1, topic:427871”]

[li]How do you, as an atheist, personally deal with the cosmological argument (glibly, something caused the universe to come into existence, that something must be god)? I personally would find it intellectually challenging to deny it, but I’m not really interested in arguing the point, just whether or not it is a personal challenge, and if so, how you deal with it.[/li][/quote]

Not really. The universe came into being. Somehow. However that happened, I’m fairly certain that my brain could never fully comprehend it. And since there’s absolutely no consequence to my not understanding it, I really couldn’t care less.

Seriously, how the universe was created and Who might have set the ball spinning doesn’t affect my life in any way.

[quote=“CJJ, post:1, topic:427871”]

[li]Some religious folks derive comfort in a form of immortality promised by many religions. It is difficult to understand how knowing one will cease to exist upon death can provide a similar value, but perhaps it does or it’s compensated for in other ways. Again, this is not at all a reason to adopt religious beliefs, but I am curious if atheists feel the regret of living with certain mortality as an emotional challenge.[/li][/quote]

Not at all. Mostly, other people’s ideas of afterlives fill me with horror (yes, including the all-wonderful Heaven of various screeds) and I feel bad for people who can’t manage to live good and meaningful lives without having an imaginary friend threaten/promise them for good behavior. Seriously.

And again, it doesn’t affect my daily life in any way. When I die, something will happen. Since I don’t believe what I do affects what happens in any way, any more than I believe that if I’m a good person and pray really hard it will never rain on me again, then what’s the point in getting hung up about an afterlife. Whatever’s there will be there when I get there, I’m sure.

[quote=“CJJ, post:1, topic:427871”]

[li]Religion is often tied to ethnic or cultural identities and practices. Christmas in America is a good example; though technically a religious holiday, it is for all intents and purposes a cultural celebration. What challenges do you face in keeping religion and culture personally separate, or do you think such distinctions are irrelevant and therefore not challenging (unless someone else insists on making it a challenge)? Use Christmas as an example if you like, but the question is generally about religious ties to culture.[/li][/QUOTE]

What challenges? Besides being annoyed that other people’s magic fairy friend gets to determine when I do and do not get mail and having to put up with tracts in my mail box?

The only challenge is dealing with the crappy behavior that religious people feel free to engage in (and push in my face) in the name of their cherry-picked rule books. If religious people would leave me alone, how would their religion affect me in any way?

Religious PEOPLE are the only challenge to my lifestyle. Not my own lack of religion. Again, I don’t have a splinter and I’m fine with that. If other people are Bedazzling their splinters and telling me how much of a loser I am without a piece of wood jammed into my finger, then THEY are the problem. Not my lack of splinter.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@CJJ

*How do you, as an atheist, personally deal with the cosmological argument (glibly, something caused the universe to come into existence, that something must be god)? I personally would find it intellectually challenging to deny it, but I’m not really interested in arguing the point, just whether or not it is a personal challenge, and if so, how you deal with it.

I just don’t see that a sentient being had to create existence. And if a sentient being did create existence, what created the sentient being?

@CJJ*

*Some religious folks derive comfort in a form of immortality promised by many religions. It is difficult to understand how knowing one will cease to exist upon death can provide a similar value, but perhaps it does or it’s compensated for in other ways. Again, this is not at all a reason to adopt religious beliefs, but I am curious if atheists feel the regret of living with certain mortality as an emotional challenge.

I’m okay with there being nothing after death. It’s gonna be a relief to die, knowing that I won’t have to do anything ever again.

[Quote=CJJ*]
Religion is often tied to ethnic or cultural identities and practices. Christmas in America is a good example; though technically a religious holiday, it is for all intents and purposes a cultural celebration. What challenges do you face in keeping religion and culture personally separate, or do you think such distinctions are irrelevant and therefore not challenging (unless someone else insists on making it a challenge)? Use Christmas as an example if you like, but the question is generally about religious ties to culture.
[/quote]

Christmas is not a cultural celebration, unless you mean “celebrating Christian culture”. I am not a Christian, so I don’t celebrate Christmas: I don’t give gifts, I don’t send cards, I don’t attend Christmas functions or parties, I don’t decorate, etc. If my friends or family members have a problem with it, they’ve never told me, but if they did tell me, I’d tell them to stfu and mind their own business. If they don’t try and foist their religion on me, I won’t tell them why their beliefs are ridiculous.

[B.Serum]

@CJJ

How do you, as an atheist, personally deal with the cosmological argument (glibly, something caused the universe to come into existence, that something must be god)? I personally would find it intellectually challenging to deny it, but I’m not really interested in arguing the point, just whether or not it is a personal challenge, and if so, how you deal with it.

The scale and notion that something like time had a “beginning” or not is totally beyond me but also has no bearing on my day-to-day life. I don’t worry about it. But I don’t see any rationale for why this awesome universe must have been created by a sentient entity is a foregone conclusion. Why isn’t chaotic happenstance just as likely?

@CJJ

Some religious folks derive comfort in a form of immortality promised by many religions. It is difficult to understand how knowing one will cease to exist upon death can provide a similar value, but perhaps it does or it’s compensated for in other ways. Again, this is not at all a reason to adopt religious beliefs, but I am curious if atheists feel the regret of living with certain mortality as an emotional challenge.

“Losing heaven” was a bummer as I lost my belief, but I got over it. But at the same time, I have to say that even at it’s best, “heaven” didn’t sound overwhelmingly “heavenly.” Some of the things that make this life so enjoyable are things that some religious folk call sinful.

@CJJ

Religion is often tied to ethnic or cultural identities and practices. Christmas in America is a good example; though technically a religious holiday, it is for all intents and purposes a cultural celebration. What challenges do you face in keeping religion and culture personally separate, or do you think such distinctions are irrelevant and therefore not challenging (unless someone else insists on making it a challenge)? Use Christmas as an example if you like, but the question is generally about religious ties to culture.

None whatsoever. All of the holidays I’ve enjoyed celebrating had a secular component to them. Moreover, it was the secular components, from Santa to Valentines to Easter eggs, that I actually enjoyed taking part of. Ironically, the Christian connection to Christmas is tenuous at best.

[Locrian]

My biggest challenge is the simple phrasing of “god bless you” when I sneeze or give a quarter to a homeless person. Please…PLEASE stop it. I do not want the 'blessing" of a fictional murderer in my life, thanks. I outrank him in morality.

Just say gesundheit.

[B.Serum]

@CJJ

So again I sincerely ask: Do you personally think atheism provides a community similar to what some religious institution provides its lay-members? If not (and I would guess most folks would say they’re not equivalent, or at least would question the quality of a religion-based community), is this a challenge, and how do you overcome/compenate for it?

I would agree that there is no single institution that provides an atheist with the myriad of services a church provides (community, philosophy, social network, counseling, etc.) but there is no shortage of those venues in a secular society. We just seek those out “à la carte” rather than a “one-stop shopping / package deal” arrangement.

@CJJ

A second, unrelated question: Some answers in this thread have clearly been dismissive of religion; that is not a complaint, just an observation. This makes me think many folks–perhaps even most–seriously adopted atheism as a reactionary position, i.e. after previous religious exposure or indoctrination. If this is true for you, is it a challenge to grow your beliefs beyond simply stating what isn’t true/real, i.e. make your credo more pro-active than re-active? To put it glibly (and I hope not insultingly), once you say “There is no God”, where do you go from there?

Thx again for reading/answering

I suspect that if you’ve grown up with God and then lose your belief, I think it’s only natural to go through a period of disillusionment and contempt for the institutions that have indoctrinated you since your earliest memory.

In regards to the “There is no God”, where do you go from there?" question, I suspect you’re asking “what do you fill that belief system hole” with? For me, the most accurate “label” is Secular Humanist, but I don’t belong or pay dues to any institutionalized entity. I don’t need or particularly want to.

[GargoyleWB]

@CJJ

From http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9211744#post9211744
-How do you, as an atheist, personally deal with the cosmological argument…
-Some religious folks derive comfort in a form of immortality promised by many religions…
-Religion is often tied to ethnic or cultural identities and practices…

1. I find it ultimately irrelevant. If there is an intelligent creator that pushed the start button, it still makes zero difference in my life or the lives of anyone. It is a vast reach from “vague idea of a creator” to “dry biscuits get transformed into living flesh when eaten” or “blessing enough dead ancestors will be rewarded on another afterlife planet”. I have no issue or care about a creator–it is all the silly worship, incredulous claims of miracles, and ineffectual prayer powers that I have no credence for.

2. I don’t blindly hope that a train is not coming down the crossing, I don’t blindly hope that the fuse box has been shut off. I especially don’t blindly believe in an afterlife key if a random person on the street makes that claim and then forbids me to question it or refute it with objective evidence. Why trade my entire life of intellectual richness and freedom of thought just to shut it down because follower #3673 of religion #248 claims they have the ticket to afterlife version #512? It would be a pity if religion #249 was really the true one instead.

3. I don’t see why tradition or ethnicity is dependent on religion in any way. My family is atheist, but puts up a christmas tree and gives presents for the fun of it and the family togetherness. There’s even a few angel ornaments, but we don’t believe that those are any more real than the ornaments of leprechauns and wizards that are also on the tree.

[Bamboo_Boy]

FTR I am a “soft” atheist. Don’t believe in a god actively, but have to concede in almost (only in a mathematical, technical way) that there is no way to be sure there ISN’T one. Like I’m not SURE there isn’t an magical invisible and otherwise unperceivable lemur in the room.

1. No challenge at all.

2. This is something of a challenge for me. I lost my dad a few years back, we were pretty tight. I miss him. If I KNEW in my heart of hearts that we are reunited with loved ones after death, I think that would be enormously comforting. I simply don’t believe it, though, as nice as that fate would be. It would also be NICE if I won the lottery, but we all know that that ain’t how things work. Cosmological reality (and that IS at the center of this ball of wax) is no exception, IMHO. So yeah, it’s a challenge in as much as I won’t get to see my father ever again, the knowledge of which I have to deal with- but I can deal. I actually think in the final sum it embiggens me.

3. I have no beef with Xmas. I love Xmas. I DO take issue with religion mixing with our (American) culture in the form of politics, though. I think the issue, whichever side on is on, is almost self-explanatory at this point.

I have very similar questions on different points for Christians myself, like- “Dont’ you worry that a burning wish for an happy afterlife might affect your judgement, especially when coming to a conclusion that’s totally devoid of an substantial, sober evidence?”

[Bamboo_Boy]

@Locrian

I do not want the 'blessing" of a fictional murderer in my life, thanks. I outrank him in morality.

Nothing against you at all, Lociran, but that’s not a terribly high bar you set there.

[ProbablyProcrastinating]

Raised agnostic; was a Christian for most of my adolescence; atheist/agnostic (can’t be bothered to decide, but feel more atheist most days) now.

No particular challenges. Metaphysical discussions are fascinating no matter what. I find conversions entertaining (and did even when I was a Christian and being witnessed to by other sects, atheists, etc.).

The Catholic church made some fascinating contributions to metaphysics for which we are indebted even today, by postulating things outside of space and time (viz. God, heaven, angels) which set a course for metaphysics and theoretical physics that one wonders if we’d have ever considered, without it. Granted, it’s a pretty sick metaphor to start from, but I personally think it’s interesting.

I don’t care what people think of me. I find that having a good attitude and being genuinely appreciative of people helps. I’ve met amazing people from every religion and atheists in every country I’ve visited.

Bitterness would pose a far greater challenge than any belief about what does or does not exist, beyond that which I can measure empirically.

[YogSothoth]

@CJJ

How do you, as an atheist, personally deal with the cosmological argument (glibly, something caused the universe to come into existence, that something must be god)? I personally would find it intellectually challenging to deny it, but I’m not really interested in arguing the point, just whether or not it is a personal challenge, and if so, how you deal with it.

I find it a stupid argument and people who make it usually aren’t that smart to begin with. I tend to go through a bit of a struggle when I see it made. On one hand, I want to argue with them, show them the error of their ways. On the other hand, I have so little faith that they’d see it nor have the intelligence to understand a rebuttal that sometimes I just insult them

You can call that First Cause anything you want, but unless you have proof of it, its just as accurate as calling it the Flying Spaghetti Monster

@CJJ

Some religious folks derive comfort in a form of immortality promised by many religions. It is difficult to understand how knowing one will cease to exist upon death can provide a similar value, but perhaps it does or it’s compensated for in other ways. Again, this is not at all a reason to adopt religious beliefs, but I am curious if atheists feel the regret of living with certain mortality as an emotional challenge.

Oh shit no. FUCK immortality. That would be horrible beyond words. I live everyday knowing, hoping that there will be an end to this existence not because I’m morbid, but because I know that at a certain point life will cease to have meaning and I would just want to disappear. That is a huge comfort to know that one day that time will be upon me. Believing in an afterlife would terrify me every day. It would bring absolutely no comfort.

@CJJ

Religion is often tied to ethnic or cultural identities and practices. Christmas in America is a good example; though technically a religious holiday, it is for all intents and purposes a cultural celebration. What challenges do you face in keeping religion and culture personally separate, or do you think such distinctions are irrelevant and therefore not challenging (unless someone else insists on making it a challenge)? Use Christmas as an example if you like, but the question is generally about religious ties to culture.

I don’t let other people’s religious celebrations bug me. As an atheist, I celebrate Christmas. I don’t have a nativity scene in my yard, but I’ll put up a tree because it looks nice. The only thing that’s been bugging me in recent years, since probably around the time in 2007 when you made your post, is that idiotic War on Christmas shit that Fox pushes every year. Before that, I’m fine with Christmas, but now I say X-mas or Happy Holidays just to piss off the religious idiots

[Feyrat]

I still think the question in the OP is very weird. It’s like asking everyone in Europe “how do you cope with not living in Africa?”

[Naxos]

@Feyrat

I still think the question in the OP is very weird. It’s like asking everyone in Europe “how do you cope with not living in Africa?”

The question in the OP, as always, is: “Will I go to hell if I dare not believe in the religion I’m supposed to believe in?”

The answer, as always, is that there are gods or hells.

Many people have a hard time rejecting the social imposition on them pretending they believe in imaginary beings.

[jjimm]

Even though this is a zombie, I see from his profile that CCJ* was last active on the SDMB a mere four days ago, so I’m hoping he will rise again in this thread.

[Naxos]

@Naxos

The answer, as always, is that there are gods or hells

Correction:

“there are no gods or hells”
I never understood why forum mods put a time limit in allowing a poster correct their own posts.

Weird.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Feyrat

I still think the question in the OP is very weird. It’s like asking everyone in Europe “how do you cope with not living in Africa?”

Well, not really. If you live in Europe, everyone around you doesn’t live in Africa and talk about living in Africa. People don’t badger you because you don’t live in Africa.

[jjimm]

@Naxos

I never understood why forum mods put a time limit in allowing a poster correct their own posts.

Weird.

Editing itself was a hard-won concession. The time limit is to prevent the inevitable dishonest “but I never said that” edits that you see on many other boards. I think it’s a good system here: it generally allows one to correct for clarity/spelling/grammar or to remove an ill-conceived outburst, but not to get all revisionist on people’s ass.