So in four years, she and this guy will be basically the same age-difference as you and your first husband. That’s actually really creepy to think about. My last serious relationship started when I was 17 and the chick was 22, so she wasn’t really robbing the cradle, but still, a pretty big age jump for me at the time.
I’m particularly interested to know what her reaction to this was. When confronted with evidence that she was just one in a long string of girls just like her, what did she say? When it’s directed at me I can’t complain (:p) but it seems like a lot of young girls are capable of blinding, nearly obsessive love and to be honest, it sortof pisses me off.
This entire section made me cringe. :mad: I use social networking sites to find dates and it’s people like this that ruin it for the ones who don’t have issues.
That’s good enough for me. Now that my daughter knows that we know and that the authorities know, and she is safe, there is no reason to be timid about this, and as you say so many other girls out there that I really do need to think about too.
I am searching for the phone number as we speak (or as I type as the case may be).
It *is *creepy to think about. Especially as a mother. But again the difference between 13 and 16 is huge- not that I would approve of my daughter following my footsteps at 16 either! That is what I am trying to protect her from actually. I have been there and know the hardships.
But in my and my ex-husband’s defense our relationship was legal, I knew what I was doing (and I had to get parental consent to marry) and now we are 37 and 47 and no one would bat an eye if we were still married.[Full disclosure: our divorce many years later had nothing to do with our age difference and we remain friendly.]
He reaction was really kind of flat. Not at all what I was expecting. First she accused us of lying. She knew that he loved her and only her, he said so! Then she said that we (her parents and the therapist) were probably required to lie to her just because…and that there must be some law that says we can’t let her be happy. She said all of that in almost a monotone, not the anger, frustration or tears that I expected.
One interesting thing she said that was duly noted at the time (and caused exchanged looks amongst the adults) that I neglected to put in my update was, “Mom is happy for me, why can’t y’all be too?” So maybe bio-mom did know all along (but I swear if I find out she did know and especially if she encouraged it, I might have to do something I will later regret…I cannot explain how angry that makes me!).
That was when we went to the computer so that she could see that we weren’t lying. At that point she got really quiet, there were some tears, but not sobs. And she started apologizing and reciting all the lines that I know were just what she thought we would want to hear.
Honestly, I think it is going to take her some time to process it all. I know she probably feels foolish for falling for him and for getting into the situation in the first place, so there is a lot of conflicting emotion swirling around with the hormones of adolescence. I don’t expect her to recover overnight, but I do hope she falls out of “love” with him as quickly as she fell in.
As long as you aren’t trolling the middle school boards for dates, I think you are okay. I don’t think that the predators of the world give all social networks or internet dating a bad name, but I hope they make everyone cautious to be sure they know who they are talking to.
Some would argue that you wouldn’t know what you were doing at 17 just like she says she knows what she’s doing at 13. I don’t agree with that, but I think it’s something to consider.
I’m surprised that she didn’t believe you. It almost seems that she’s dependent on this guy emotionally. Is she depressed at all? Does she have lots of friends at school? Has she ever shown interest in boys her age?
!!! Um, what?! That sounds to me like she did know. This is a big problem.
Hopefully in her heart she knows the truth. It hurts but it’s the only way.
No. I’ve said in other threads that the way I do things is through mass-adds. I don’t solicit anyone, but for every five friend requests I send, one girl messages me and I meet people that way. But know what else? For every five girls I add, there’s a 16, 15, 14 and sometimes 13 year old girls who lie about their age. I don’t consider myself a particularly stupid person, but with some of these girls it’s hard to tell by their pictures how old they really are. But not to worry, I always explicitly ask how old they are and check the ages of all their top friends, etc. Even if I were a perv, the minimum five years of prison would likely be enough to scare me off.
Definitely. I think all children, boys and girls, need to be told about safety. It’s hard to talk with kids about this stuff without sounding like a square, but I know of too many parents who don’t even bother to attempt having discussions at all.
Have you talked to bio-mom yet? A simple “Did you know daughter has been chatting with some new guy” should get the ball rolling, from there I think the next questions would be…
Did you know he lives in Texas?
Did you know he’s 23 years old?
If she answers no to either to those then she probably just thinks that daughter has a boyfriend and there’s a chance she doesn’t know any more, but if she answers yet to either of them, especially the age one, then, as much as you want to fly off the handle, just tell say “Okay, I was just wondering if she mentioned it to you yet, that’s all” and you can then mention that bio-mom not only condones this relationship but also got daughter a cell phone and told her to keep it hidden so she can text him (assuming this is more or less how it all plays out).
I agree that some would argue that and it has been brought up by my 13 year old too. Even if I keep my past indiscretions from her there is no hiding the fact that her older brother is 20 years old. To this I just re-iterate that it is likely true, that I didn’t know as much as I thought I did and then I point out that by the time I got involved with him and got pregnant (at 16) I was almost out of high school. I graduated, turned 17, got married and had my son all within a few months; and I attended college on schedule that fall, and that if she thinks she could do the same, and end up the same way as I did, then I will leave her alone. But the story rarely has that happy of an ending and I point that out as often as I can.
She has lots of friends, and has had “boyfriends” her own age right up until this started. She didn’t believe us simply because she didn’t want to. I don’t think she developed any dependency just yet, but rather it was so hurtful that it couldn’t possibly be true.
And this is my belly laugh of the day. No offense. It is just so obvious that you don’t know bio-mom and it is funny to think of the conversation going just that way with her. Let me read you my text messages from a few weeks ago (obviously edited)
Me-to-her: Hey, I am worried about <daughter>. I found some pills in her room. She says she stole them from your house. Do you know what they might be?
Her-to-me: You need to grow the hell up and mind your own damn business.Whatever pills I have are not your concern, get a f**king life!
Me-to-her: I am sorry, I just thought you should know that <daughter> has these drugs. I looked them up and they are muscle relaxers. I won’t bother you about it again.
Her-to-me: You need to act like a human, but you can’t because you are not human, you are a DEMON FROM HELL! Leave <daughter> alone and quit stalking her!
And that, ladies and gentlemen is actually what a “normal” conversation with bio-mom is like…I swear to God I couldn’t make this crap up.
After reading that, it blows my mind that a judge would actually want a child to be around her. Do you keep things like that and show him? How on earth could he put a positive spin on that?
Just curious, but assuming conversations like this are the norm, have you tried showing this to the judge? It seems like the more things like this you could pile up, eventually the proverbial camel’s back might break. It seems like if you could make it evident that, by her own admission, she not only knew her daughter was in a relationship with a sexual predator, but was actively encouraging it, it might go a long way in your favor. At least, in a perfect world.
The really frustrating part of the courtroom drama is that we have so much of these conversations from texts, email, and recorded (both in person and on the phone- we are in a one-party state so we can legally record) and we have given the judge mountains of evidence, and it seems like it all gets ignored (by him). They have become crazier lately (and she is off her meds so it makes sense that they would) though and we are of the same hope…maybe this time this will be enough.
We also have the mundane complaints that nearly all divorced parents have it seems…she hasn’t paid child support in since who knows when, she hasn’t paid her share of medical bills…ever. She hasn’t done any “mommy-ing” at all, just this negative stuff. I am quite sure that if she were a father, the judge wouldn’t let any of it go on this long.
I did have to text her today, and she seemed a bit less crazy than usual but I am not at all ready to have any real conversations about our daughter with her (I keep it to text and email- easier that way and it gives me a record). And since she has no legal custody anyway (which really just means that all medical, educational, religious or legal decisions go through us and she is not allowed to sign for daughter for anything) I don’t have to talk to her at all. The times I do it is as a courtesy to her.
Today I texted about the doctor’s bills she owes me for (she is supposed to pay half of all co-pays and uncovered medical expenses). I was nice and polite: “<Daughter> had doctor’s appt today. Co-Pay was $25, I will send you the receipt.” and the (less crazy) response was “Don’t bother, I aint <sic> paying it.” So I responded, “Okay, just letting you know. Thanks.” which prompted, “Get a life and go to hell” which made me wonder how I should do both.
Oh the judge freely admits that she is not stable, but he wants to give her a chance, you know. She’s probably a good person deep down, let’s just try letting her have a few more hours on Wednesday nights and see if her parenting skills don’t improve…
Sorry, I am getting a bit ranty just thinking about it.
Your response shows much more self-control (or is it passiveness?) than I would have been able to. “Okay, just letting you know. Thanks.” I would have flown off the handle. Which is probably why it’s a good thing that you’re the mother and not me (besides the obvious).
How does the father react to this sort of behavior from her? I’m surprised neither of you have gone postal.
Well…you just hit on another reason I try to keep communication to text messages and email. I know there is a record and that it is likely to end up in a court room, so I can temper my responses a bit. (And I do way too much of typing things out then deleting them before hitting send.)
He tolerates it far less than I do. But since he knows she has no say in anything, he is not forced to communicate with her about anything, so he doesn’t. On the rare occasions she calls him he says, “Wait a minute, let me get Mitze for you.” Typically we type out whatever we want to say (that’s nice and suitable for a judge’s viewing) then we go for a walk where we vent it all out to each other away from daughter. Today for example it was a brisk mile an half cursing her name the entire time. I also hold it against husband that he ever married her in the first place. But by the time we get home we are usually calm enough to just laugh off her stupidity and get on with things.
Wow, I just discovered this thread yesterday and finally reached the end of it this morning. Mitze, I think you and your husband are doing a great job in a terrible situation. I can’t imagine how stressful it must be to have to deal with your daughter’s bio-mom, and then this predator situation, all on top of the normal stresses that go with raising teenagers! I really hope the judge comes to his senses and cuts off bio-mom’s visitation rights once and for all.
ETA: I just want to add, I’m a couple years off from even having kids, and this thread scared the shit out of me. But, on the bright side, it sparked a conversation with my fiance last night about child-rearing, and it looks like we’re on the same page. Theoretically, at least.
I think you’re approaching this from too much of a rational point of view. To the hormone-addled brain of a teenage girl, the speed just makes it more romantic. They are destined to be together, their eyes met across a crowded facebook. They knew immediately that they were soulmates, separated by the cruelty of geography and a trivial difference in age. They didn’t need to get to know each other, their connection was instant and can never be understood by others, especially boring parents who only want her to live a boring life and can’t possibly know how it feels to be in loooooooove.
It disturbs me slightly that I am nearly thirty and can still channel my inner teenage girl in this way. Fortunately I grew up, realised that Romeo & Juliet is not a useful model for adult relationships and hopefully your daughter will do too. I think you’re doing an amazing job under mind-bogglingly difficult circumstances.
Also, after spending the last few days keeping up with this thread, something popped into my head last night. Sometime when your daughter isn’t feeling so “ganged up on” by the responsible adults, you could ask her what she would think of a 13- or 14-year-old friend of hers being good friends with a 7-year-old. Wouldn’t she think there was something seriously wrong with her friend that s/he would want to be friends with a little kid? That’s what these adult guys are like who say they love teenage girls.
I was lucky as a teenager, and realized that any 20-something who’d be interested in a girl my age must have Serious Issues.
Now that my daughter knows that we know and that the authorities know, and she is safe, there is no reason to be timid about this, and as you say so many other girls out there that I really do need to think about too.
