What do I do? What do I do? (socialization thing)

[Lakai]

@monstro

The tone wasn’t obvious, but I wasn’t surprised or being serious with that comment.

I guess I don’t like someone (Lakai) who has problems with people too preaching to me what I already know and what is patently obvious to anyone who has two brain cells to rub together.

It’s not that obvious. I know a lot of people (myself included) that took a long time learning this lesson.

@monstro

Again, not to be snarkalicious, but I don’t need you to break down my personality disorder to me. I think I’m fairly aware of what it’s all about and why I do the things I do. I’m not saying my thought processes are rational or that my feelings are normal. And I’ve never blamed other people for my state. I’m not seeking validation or someone to say I’m not strange. I know that I’m abnormal.

The reason I brought it up was because I thought you were looking for friends the wrong way. You said you were searching for a feeling. I thought you shouldn’t go by feelings because your feelings are unreliable.

Because I’m not shy, for one? I can talk to just about anyone as long as I know they don’t want to latch on to me. Even when I’m ticcing and grimacing and walking crazily, I don’t feel that self-conscious or apologetic (though I used to). I’m constantly doing crazy-ass adventurous things that put my life in danger. I have never had a panic attack or been wracked with ruminations. When I was in school and busting my ass to do well, I was anxious–moreso than normal. But it had nothing to do with other people, but my fear of failure.

I’ve been around this mulberry bush before with you. My doctor has already ruled out social anxiety. There was a time when I thought I could have an anxiety disorder, just because I didn’t know what else could be wrong with me (and anxiety disorders run in my family). But I have learned some things about myself as I have gotten older. I have doubts about the other labels that have been applied to me. But never the schizoid one.

Schizoids do feel anxious. But it is not the same type of anxiety that avoidants feel. I have no problem with being in the presence of people as long as I know I can say good-bye to them. When I sense that this isn’t the case, THAT is when I feel anxious. But just because a person experiences anxiety does not mean they have an anxiety disorder. I could take all the Xanax in the world and it would not make me more likely to befriend someone. (And I have been on something stronger than Xanax for two years, so I should know).

The source of anxiety is different, but it’s still anxiety. The solution of confronting your fears applies to all types of anxieties.

Since you say that Xanax doesn’t help you, it’s possible that your anxiety is stronger than what most people experience. The difference then is a matter of degree. This might make it harder for you to confront your fears, but the basic process is the same.

I disagree. People may feel uncomfortable, but I don’t think they feel the kind of self-loathing hatred and alienation that I experience when someone reaches out to me. But we can do a poll and see which one of us is right. I have a feeling most people will not say, “Oh yes! When someone invites me over for tea, I have intense suicidal thoughts too!” But I admit I might be wrong.

Fair enough.

Well, I guess I do seek some type of validation because I go to therapy. And my therapist does validate, in addition to correcting and advising. But the way you phrased it, with the Wiccans just bopping in to pat me on the head and giving me the thumbs up? If my therapist pulled that with me, I would have quit her a long time ago.

I was going for humor. As usual, it didn’t come across too well.

Actually roxie’s example of friendship makes me think of something. If I were to have a friend, I would want someone who I did not have to talk to. At all. And they would not talk to me. We would play in the sandbox doing our own things, simply existing together. Parallel play. That is the only kind of friendship I can really imagine because it lacks the stress and complexity of shared emotions. (No, I don’t need anyone to point out how infantile this is.)

I don’t want to be helped. I don’t mind being the helper (which is why I was that woman’s “friend” for so long), but the reverse isn’t something I want at all. But I recognize that one day I will have to BE helped. Maybe not any time soon, but one day. Knowing this reality, I know that I need to get on board with accepting help if I plan on living. Friendship isn’t the thing I’m working towards. Just allowing someone to come into my world and see me naked (literally and metaphorically).

So I’m doing some little and not so little things with myself so that I will be ready when the time comes to surrender and stop doing everything alone. I’m guessing friendship would be the most ideal vehicle, but it’s not essential.

I did not want to sound like the “suck it up and have dinner” crowd, which is how I might have come across. It’s just that you said you were judging potential friends based on how you felt about them, and I thought that was the wrong way to do it.

In the OP you wanted to know if it was ok not to befriend every friendly person that comes your way. The answer is that you can be as selfish as you want when you choose your friends. However, the way you’re choosing who you’ll spend time with doesn’t seem to jive with your goals. If you want friends for practical reasons, then be practical about it. Don’t search for someone that will make feel good, look for someone who might be willing to help you but doesn’t require a lot of contact.

[alice_in_wonderland]

@monstro

I started the thread to see if everyone goes through this angst. Like, if I were normal, would I take up their invite and have tea? Or is it actually normal to decline invitations from perfectly normal, non-scary individuals for no good reason? Turns out I got a lot of different opinions. There doesn’t appear to be one good answer.

I’m going to jump back in here - I think it’s perfectly normal to turn this type of thing down. I have no particular personality disorder but that doesn’t mean that I want to hang out with people I don’t know.

I wonder if you’re hanging a bit more of your reluctance to hang with these gals on your PD than you should. For instance, I have a friend with a 6 year old son who has autism. She tends to attribute EVERYTHING he does to his autism, like if he goes to his karate class and comes home and karate chops the sofa, the dog and his little sister it’s because he’s autistic - Uh, actually I think that’s because he’s a little boy, 'cus that’s kind of what they do.

So, what that in mind, maybe what your ex-neighbours were offering up just wasn’t appealing to you because it wasn’t. Not because there’s something wrong with you, you just didn’t want to hang with these particular gals.

I almost flunked out of grad school because I refused to ask for help from professors on my committee. During my defense, one of the professors cussed me out because of it. It took them almost an hour for them to decide whether I should pass or not. The longest hour of my life. Whenever I find myself doing something really hard all by myself, I stop and think about that memory of me standing in the hall that morning, full of regrets.

Again, I need to jump in here. In my old job my office faced a bank of meeting rooms where PhD defenses were conducted. An HOUR?? You’re freaking out about an HOUR?!?! Good god woman, some of the poor saps would be left in the hall for THREE HOURS. Should you have asked for more help? Probably, but I think Committees keep folks waiting just to be respectable - they don’t want to just be handing out PhDs to any Tom, Dick or Monstro - they had to make you sweat a little, ya know?

I’m content with the amount of human contact I have now, but I don’t think it is sustainable.

And now, I do have to criticize a little bit here - making friends for the primary (sole?) purpose of having people to help you if you need to move or if you injure yourself is a touch…Machiavellian. I mean, it’s nice to have people to rely on; however, if that’s your only motivation hiring that type of job out might be a better option.

FWIW, even if you have friends it doesn’t mean that they will be ready, willing or able to assist you when the time comes. My dad died in January and I would have really liked it my best friend had been able to support me through it - unfortunately she found out her 5 year old son had a brain tumour 2 days later so she was just not available. (Her son is fine now, as an aside).

Having friends does not necessarily mean that you’ll have the type of support you need anyway. You may want to consider that before you tie yourself in knots trying to befriend people whose company you don’t actually enjoy.