I apologise for the generic title, but I really have no idea what else to ask. I’m a long time lurker, very little poster, but have loved the dope for 10+ years…
Wife and I have 2 daughters. Fairly average life. Oldest daughter (age 16 currently) has been an emotional wreck for a few years. We had hoped therapy would help, but she would never comply. She manages very good grades in HS, but for years has always been volatile socially. Seems to have a knack at losing friends and even creating enemies out of them( to which she claims and we haven’t been able to disprove, that she did nothing wrong). But where there is smoke there is fire…
Anyhow, I feel like it’s reached a breaking point. She is being medicated(by her pediatrician) but at the moment not seeing a therapist ( in early Oct they each agreed not to continue). At times she is a very normal teenager, but then something comes out of the blue. This am, we get a massive text bomb asking us to get her from HS as she is crying uncrotrolably in the bathroom.(she broke down to my wife last night, but it’s always the same stuff)My response to my wife was tough love… She was in a safe place( her high school, not a warehouse where everyone was doing heroin) and I wanted her to put her nose down and focus. That didn’t happen and my wife got her from school. Her guidance counselor has been informed as she has missed an unusual amount of days.
I just don’t know what to do. I want to pull her from school in the hopes she can learn and help herself with the intention to re enter the same grade at a different(maybe one geared towards kids with needs/issues) next year. I don’t know how else to fix it.
I apologise for the rant, but I suppose I’m hoping the collective experience I’ve witnessed from the Dope over the last dozen years might grant me an once of wisdom. Because this sucks and I’m at a loss… Thanks.
Teenage girls can be very trying, at best. I think your daughter is in crisis. I would pull her from school only to place her in a facility for troubled teens where she can get intensive psychotherapy and be properly medicated.
I’m so sorry you’re family is going through this.
I want to say this temporary. But I can’t know that. Good luck.
Vent here if you need to. I, for one, will listen
ETA, highschools are not always safe places. Kids can be incredibly cruel to each other.
One crucial question omitted from the OP is “what does your daughter herself think is the issue?” I think that might be very informative.
One big caution about this. I once knew a situation where the parents of a teenage girl were thinking of admitting her to such a facility. And the psychiatrist at that facility recommended against it. His point was that this girl’s issues were relatively mild compared to most of the troubled kids there, and he felt that her mixing with that crowd would have a deleterious effect, which would be more of a negative than whatever positive was being accomplished at the place. I would be very hesitant to put a girl whose symptoms are “volatile socially” and missing a bit of school in a place for troubled teens.
I’ve always felt counseling only works if the person wants it.
And speaking anecdotally, proper diet and exercise has done more for my anxiety issues than any SSRIs ever did. (YMMV)
Maybe your daughter won’t go to therapy, but you and your wife should go, to get help for how to best help your daughter and constructively deal with the various crises. As frustrating as this can be, “tough love” may not be the right answer.
It’s a little hard to say without knowing her diagnosis. If she is being medicated, I can’t understand why she wouldn’t continue to be in therapy, especially if she is still having issues. If there wasn’t a connection with the first one, she should continue to try others to find someone she can talk to comfortably.
Does she have a 504? If not, get one. It will provide her whatever accommodations she needs to be successful in school. If she does, the team needs to reevaluate that it contains what she needs, that she is being allowed to utilize them and she has agency.
Tough love certainly is not the answer. She needs your support and all of the resources that are available.
My daughter went through some extremely difficult emotional issues starting in Jr. High to the point she was in a partial program (not in school but a facility during the day) for over 6 months. Medication, therapy and support systems got her through and now she is a very independent self-assured young woman preparing to start College. Teachers and coaches who have known her throughout High School can’t believe she is the same person as the timid, scared of everything, anti-social little girl in Freshman year. IT CAN BE DONE.
What she needs from you is your unconditional support. That doesn’t mean doing or saying whatever she wants. It means giving her everything that she needs.
With all due respect to pediatricians, they’re not experts on psych meds. Your daughter should see a specialist for that–a psychiatrist.ideally an adolescent psychiatrist. She doesn’t want therapy, I get that, but psychiatrists don’t do much in the way of therapy these days. They mainly evaluate and prescribe. Since this is urgent, see if her pediatrician can refer her and possibly get her an emergency appointment.
If she’s not on the right meds/dosage for her diagnosis, therapy might not help, especially if her therapist isn’t the right one for her. That may be why she’s resisting therapy.
If the psychiatrist recommends she continue at her current school, a 504 is a great idea. It can take some time to get through the process, though. In the meantime, you could always request a meeting with her teachers, a counselor, an administrator, you and your wife, and your DD to come up with a workable plan. We used to do these academic interventions fairly often at the school where I taught.
One thing I’ve found helpful is to make the child part of the team–that is, within limits (such as not dropping out of school), she’s able to help decide her course of treatment. Definitely don’t try to tough love this one. Doing so could well drive her to do things you don’t want to contemplate.
Just an anecdote, but it sounds very similar to your situation.
A co-worker had a teenage daughter that acted out all the time. Calls to get her from school because of persecution from other girls, friends becoming enemies, boyfriends being stolen by other girls, teachers that hated her, etc.
She eventually got checked into a psych facility for evaluation.
What the doctors found: No mental illness, she was just an asshole who thrived on drama and attention. She eventually grew out of it.
Girls are tough. Both of mine went off the rails around age 14 ish or so. One just wanted to be a pothead, the other was a cutter and a drinker. I’ll spare you the details, but the only thing that ‘worked’ was damage control, being present, and being trustworthy. The storm is a storm, and it’s just gonna suck but it does end. They’re doing very well now.
Having had a teenager who went through her own torturous adolescence I could fill screen after screen with anecdotes, aphorisms, and advice. I’ll try to keep things brief.
High school isn’t necessarily a “safe space.” She might have been bullied by the mean girls, harassed by the boys, seen or heard something that triggered an old hurt, etc.
One family member with emotional problems = a family with emotional problems. You and your wife can’t even agree on how to respond to your daughter’s problems. What’s going on with your younger daughter - watching someone she’s grown up with going through crisis after crisis? Family counseling can help you work through problems you aren’t even aware of. At the very least it can give you a stronger framework to deal with the problems you are aware of.
Medication without ongoing therapy is only half a solution, and not necessarily the better half.
I’ve also gone through similar drama with our daughter starting at around 13. Her out-of-control emotions have done serious and permanent damage to herself and her relationships with family and friends. She’s getting better now at age 23. But it’s been very very tough on everyone around her.
FWIW - My advice is that your daughter’s a minor, so you’re still in control. You need to get her professionally assessed to determine if her problems are: 1) Psychological = therapy, 2) Psychiatric = medication 3) Some combination of 1 & 2, 4) In the range of “Normal” behaviour = hold on tight and try to stay on the roller coaster while counting the days until she moves out. Even if your daughter doesn’t want to go, you allowed to force her at this age.
Look for someone who specializes in teen girls, they exist. Your pediatrician should be able to refer you.
You should see the therapist first on your own (with your wife). Describe concerns about her behaviours and also the impact it’s having your family. You’ll also discuss your daughter’s view on the issues. Part of the therapist’s job will also be to discuss the situation with your daughter and work to help her see the negative impact this is having on the family (why she needs help).
Your daughter’s therapist may or may not want a group session with all of you to see the family dynamics and help your daughter see the issues she is creating.
At the same time, you, your wife plus any other kids also should to get into therapy. A good therapist will be an unbiased 3rd party advisor to talk through issues you’re having (or upcoming ones you may not anticipate yet). This situation is having an impact on you and your wife and any other kids and your collective relationship. You need to get that out in the open and deal with it.
They’ll help you through the pros and cons of things like your disagreement on tough love and hopefully get you on the same page.
We didn’t bring our son into therapy and that was a mistake. We found out later all the drama was having a massive impact on him. He internalized everything since he didn’t want to add to the obvious strain our daughter was placing on us. It’s effected him to this day. Even if the other kids seem “fine” they are not necessarily so.
JMO based on my own experiences in the mental health system.
There’s a whole lot of psychotropic medications available beyond antidepressants. A pediatrician / general practitioner isn’t going to prescribe them, or if s/he does s/he shouldn’t be. You really need to see a psychiatrist for symptoms of anything other than straight, uncomplicated depression. Go see a psychiatrist.
Relationship difficulties and a breakdown in the bathroom hardly seem justification for a “special school” which are meant for students so ill they absolutely can’t function in a regular setting. If drugs and therapy aren’t enough there’s other options meant for people that need more than that but can be trusted not to hang themselves some dark night (if a person can’t then that’s what locked psychiatric wards are for. There’s intensive outpatient as well as partial hospitalization, again your average pediatrician isn’t going to really know or be able to recommend any that might be appropriate.
Lastly - I’d add that your daughter is not abnormal at all. In my experience, almost all girls have these emotional issues at puberty. The only question is the degree to which they have them and whether the family discusses it openly. I’ve had several friends admit years later that they didn’t talk about it, but they went through a lot of “shit” with their daughters.
I’ve come to believe that this is actually a biological / genetic human imperative. From a biological perspective your daughter is now old enough to breed. This type of behaviour was the trigger to kick her out of the family home, force her to find a mate and propagate the species.
Speaking for my situation, if this was 50,000 years ago (or even 500) and she did half the shit she did at 13, I’d have punted her immediately. No therapy, no second guessing at “How did I cause this?”, just gone.
Why is she being medicated and for what? As mentioned above, usually pediatricians do not prescribe drugs for depression, etc. without some sort of diagnosis. Was this prompted by you and her mother? I highly doubt your daughter asked her pediatrician to prescribe her medication for a mental condition.
Do you and your spouse try and talk to her about her situation, share your own experiences, empathize with her, etc? As others have said, teen angst and drama especially from girls, is not that unusual, especially not warranting institutionalizing!! I would suggest some form of family therapy. The more open the lines of communication between the parents and the kid the better it can be. This will ease with maturation, and knowing that she has your support. Many teens see themselves as victims. But to overcome that feeling and see that they have ownership of their situation, takes support.
Having mental health issues for years and being sufficiently ill to require medication is not typical teen girl behavior. Neither is being unable to form lasting friendships and blowing up at school.
As I said upthread, get her pediatrician to refer her to psychiatrist who sub-specializes in adolescents. See about getting a meeting with her teachers, a guidance counselor, and an administrator plus you, your wife, and DD. And stay in touch with the guidance counselor.
What do you mean that she wouldn’t comply with therapy? That she refused to go? That she went, but wouldn’t engage? That she didn’t follow any advice she was given?
Did you try more than one therapist? If not, is it possible a different one would help?
Do the problems happen mainly at school, or is she also unstable at home or in other environments? If it’s mainly at school, is it possible there’s a problem with one or more classmates? The fact that it’s been happening for the past three years suggests it isn’t a teacher, but kids tend to have the same classmates year after year.
I don’t think that tough love is the answer to her having a breakdown, unless you think she’s faking. An emotional crisis isn’t a form of willful misbehavior.
@ the OP: I think the tough-love response to someone, when that person is issuing a clear cry for help, is a potentially huge mistake. It’s the emotional equivalent of calling 911 and having the 911 operator hang up on you or give you the answering machine. “Tough love” in that situation can potentially destroy trust - your daughter may think of it as being that in her worst/most vulnerable moment, you essentially denied her.
I just want to chime in to say that I 100% agree with nelliebly that as far as medication goes, you should find a psychiatrist or pediatric/adolescent psychiatrist for consultation about medication. I am speaking from personal experience with my son. It may be difficult to find a psychiatrist who is accepting patients, but it is well worth the effort. If you have a good teaching hospital near you, you can start looking in their psychiatry department.