My point is that you can only dump Trump if you start now, which means giving up hope for the present, and gambling on a better hand in 2 years. But that’s a huge gamble, and the odds are that any Trump replacement would lose just as badly as Trump, because dumping Trump would tear the party apart. And there’s no guarantee it could be put back together.
It’s much more reasonable to give up hope for the presidency in 2020 and focus on keeping the Senate and the state houses. Trump is a long shot for 2020, but Trump’s replacement is going to be an even bigger long shot, who would run as a sacrificial lamb.
Yeah, he lied to you, just as we said he would before you voted for him the first time.
You will vote for him in 2020, I’m sure he will promise not to lie to you again, and you will believe him again.
Then he will betray you again, and you will act all surprised, as if no one could have possibly seen that coming. You’ll rail against what you imagine the democrats will do, while forgiving the republicans for what they actually do do.
Tell me honestly, in 2020, when it’s Trump vs. Harris or Warren or even Booker, that you will not pull the lever to try to get your tribal leader reaffirmed?
He knows he’s got you. He owns you. He’s a terrible politician, and an ever worse leader. But a manipulator, yeah, he’s good at that.
Exit polls and Numbers can tell you that there would not have been another person that got the Nader votes had Nader not run. No.
No one disputes this? You mean pundits and other talking heads or the chattering chorus of poli-sci majors turned operatives? Or do you really mean no one?
The gun issue is just a distraction to give people the idea that there is something at stake other than their Social Security and Medicare benefits, which is really what is at stake. This whole “they’re coming to take your guns!” hysteria is exactly that: hysteria. There is no path to repealing the 2nd Amendment. There is no major constituency that wants that, no major political figures promote that. No, how it works is, billionaires who stand to lose millions through higher taxes are willing to “invest” millions to figure out what pushes the emotional buttons of the credulous class. Turns out that screaming, “They’re coming to take your guns!!” does that. It matters not one whit if it is true or not, all that matters is that it gets you to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy.
Same with the wall. If the GOP were truly serious about ending illegal immigration, they would push for harsh penalties for people who hire illegal immigrants. But that would end up punishing the wealthy, which is exactly the opposite of the point. The credulous class can be led to believe that The Wall is the answer to all their problems and the key to preserving their way of life. More importantly, it keeps them from seeing that it is their Social Security and Medicare that is really at stake, and not the pure whiteness of their civilization or whatever it is that animates wall mania. It doesn’t matter, only that it gets people to vote for tax cuts for the wealthy.
The GOP cares for very little besides cutting taxes for the wealthy, and they are willing to do just about anything to get them. Lie to the public? So what? Destabilize the country with massive debts? So what? It is the wealthy who will collect he interest on all those bonds anyway, and besides, a financial crisis is the only thing that will force the elimination of Social Security and Medicare, as the public doesn’t support doing that. They have to be fooled into it.
Sorry your pals won’t be able to turn their AKs into machine guns in the future. But the GOP doesn’t really care. It is all about cutting taxes for the wealthy, and the rest is whatever message will push your buttons and get you riled up about those bogeymen, libruls :eek:
That’s what “going to the dark side” is all about-bullshitting everyone and eschewing the public interest to serve the wealthy interest. But now, all the lies are catching up to them. Eventually they crash into reality and the jig is up. What is the end game of going to the dark side? What does the GOP do in 2020?
You, of course, are hijacking the thread with this, as the OP doesn’t care about manufacturing jobs or the economy, only about guns, so to avoid going too far down the rabbit hole with you, Can we agree that under Trump, he has continued the trend that was set the previous 6 years by Obama?
So, while manufacturing is on the rise, attributing it entirely, or even mostly to Trump, and him making the idea that he would cause the jobs to come back is all very much wrong, and the promises that he made in that regard were lies at the time, and are also lies now.
[/of your attempted hijack]
Now, back to your fellow conservative’s OP that you were trying to siderail there. Do you agree with the OP that Trump betrayed you on the gun issue? Why or why not?
Also, HD, you would come across as less daft if you addressed your comments to the people you are ostensibly responding to, rather than glurging out another tedious propaganda point about “what liberals think”, whoever they are supposed to be.
Except he got a regulatory agency to change the law, sans Congress, that will turn half a million people into federal felons by March 2019 if they keep a piece of plastic. This is the same agency that just a few years ago published that such pieces of plastic were perfectly legal to manufacture, sell, buy, posses, and use. Imagine what else they could outlaw without a single congressional vote.
And this thread isn’t about guns, that is just 1 issue involving hard core Republican voters. It’s about a President that is determined to piss everyone off and what the party he belongs to is supposed to do about it.
Well I agree that Trump is pissing just about everyone off. But I think you are freaking out without cause re: the infringement of the right to bear arms. Consider: machine guns have been illegal since longer than any of us have been alive. Bump stocks turn your legal gun into a machine gun. Therefore, they never should have been legal in the first place.
I don’t think there are any grounds for “they are coming to take your guns” hysteria, no matter who gets elected. This is simply law enforcement. The executive can’t suspend the 2nd by fiat, and if the day ever comes that it seems they can, I’ll take your side against them.
Can anyone get it through their melon gun control is not the point? It’s just one example of how fast T flipped in the face of an incident after making hard core promises.
In fact, the only issue he’s stuck to his guns on was the wall, and now he’s blinked on that.
Actually, the real issue here, pkbites, isn’t that Trump flipped - and can it be called flipped when he clearly doesn’t actually have a policy position on guns? - but that, despite the regulatory change Congress did nothing to prevent the regulation. They easily could have, it’s well within their power to do so. Congress limits regulator’s authority all the time. And with total control, they saw fit to ignore the proposed regulation.
It’s not just Trump. This time it was both houses of congress that flipped. And they DO have staked out policy positions.
And yet, after his “cave”, his base is as solid in his camp as ever, running 86% approval with self-identified Republicans and 92% approval among those who had voted for him in 2016.
There are just not too many people who, like you, voted for him but disapprove of him now, and of them many may still vote for him with disapproval again because they disapprove of the other choice more, like last time.
There is zero evidence that “hard core Republican voters” have been pissed off by him.
I get it, you are upset that Trump has betrayed you. That he made promises that he never intended to keep, but only to con you into supporting him.
He will continue to lie, and massive numbers of your fellow republicans will forgive him for his lies, and will believe that this time, he really means it. He will be your nominee in 2020, and you will vote for him.
He owns the republican party. He has conned his way to the top, and he is not going to let it go. If you have a problem with him, it is not a messageboard you need to complain to, it is your congresspersons and senators. Call them up, email them, mail them, and tell them that you, as a hard core republican supporter and lifelong voter, do not support this president, and ask them to stop supporting him as well.
I think is is through my noggin, but you be the judge. When it comes to gun control, machine guns have been illegal for longer than we have been alive. Bump stocks turn your rifle into a machine gun, and therefore should never have been legal to begin with. A horrific massacre highlights why, and Congress moves to tie up this loose end.
Meanwhile, gun rights enthusiasts are extra sensitive to any movement on these issues, and feel betrayed, “fast.” My point is that the GOP takes advantage of these kinds of feelings to manipulate people into a place where they support tax cuts for the wealthy. They scream at you that it is always a slippery slope to a total gun ban, when in fact I would bet the farm that the 2nd Amendment is not going anywhere, even if Dems had super majorities and the WH. It is a false fear that is used as a handle to steer people where they want you.
I am saying the whole GOP is a con. Remember how they used to lecture us on the importance of character? Kaput.
Human rights? Democracy? Now they embrace dictators.
Remember the 3 decades of caterwauling about deficits? First chance they got, they gave us $1t annual deficits. Tax cuts are their first and only love.
They told you tax cuts ARE jobs. They tell you the wall IS border security. Free trade? Nope, tariffs. Bankrupt farmers will lose their land to billionaire buyers, the capitalist version of Stalin’s land appropriation, and all the while they will scream at you about Librul Socialists :eek:
I am telling you it is all talk, except the tax cuts. They even have you believing that experts are not to be trusted, that we need outside political novices running things and that IS the solution to our problems. And enter Trump. What’s next? Ignorance is strength? Slavery is freedom? War is peace?
No they haven’t. And, BTW, they aren’t illegal now. Under federal law and the laws of about 40 states one can still buy/possess a fully automatic weapon but possessing a piece of plastic is about to become a serious crime with no wiggle room, regulations, licensing, etc out of it.
But that’s not the issue. Alright?
The issue is Trump is a lead weight around the GOP and I believe he can’t possibly win in 2020 or even come close. If the party has any hope to win, or at very least have some dignity and credibility in the future, now is the time to turn on this buffoon.
The best hope for conservatives is that the Republicans lose so badly that they cease to exist as a party, to make room for a conservative party to emerge. So long as the Republican party continues to exist, a conservative party is impossible.
This poll ignores the fact that Trump is about as popular with his base as a politician can be. The correct answer is a vote for him again in 2020. The alternative to Republicans is a socialist leaning individual.
With Mueller’s investigation wrapping up and not one hint of a charge against the president, Trump’s popularity should rise a bit after it concludes. The USA public has a soft spot for those targeted and not charged. Mueller, by the way, needs to show transparency on the investigation was handed.
Thank you for making sure we’re kept informed as to the president’s talking points, about this and other issues. It’s good to know the propaganda coming out of the White House so we can keep that in mind, and separate it out, when considering the facts.