Thanks, Bobo - best line of the whole freakin’ day.
When I used to go out to bars on occasion, I was much more comfortable talking to men who didn’t offer to buy me a drink, because I often felt like they thought I owed them something if they bought me a drink. I take more time than that to make up my mind about people, and I didn’t want there to be any hazy obligation hanging there. If they just act friendly and not desperate, then I can relax and get to know them.
Oh, okay. “Your rules suck” sounded to me almost exactly like “I really believe that my rules are better than your rules for you”.
Ok-keydoke.
Yep, me too. I don’t respect everyone’s opinions or POV, but I respect your entitlement to them. A subtle difference, but an important one, IMO. Different strokes for different folks and all that. I may think your stance is assinine (I probably won’t share my opinion with you), but you have every right to it.
Precisely. Which means, even though we (might) both think each other’s opinion on the matter is asinine, we could still get along. I mean, as long as you don’t listen to Celine Dion or anything truly reprehensible.
p.s. Kimstu, I notice you cut off the last sentence I posted when you quoted me. I assume you did read it, though, and didn’t do the partial quote just to make me sound completely intolerant.
oh crap. no I’m just over sex right now. It bores me and I have zero sex drive (meds) But all of you go! Have sex! Don’t have sex! I don’t care.
I can get mad, too, when I think about all the jerks I’ve run into along the ways of my life, but in general, I like men, especially (love) my husband, and the concept of men in general. It’s a lucky break that I find them so fascinating, since I’ve surrounded by them all my life*.
I’ve watched them grow old and die, reach the pinnacles (or once or twice, the nadir) of their lives, in the throes of passion, break down and cry like babies, and grow from baby to young man. Most of it good, some of it bad, but all of it very human. I can honestly say they constantly surprise me, that’s for certain. There are exactly four people on this earth for whom I would throw myself in front of a bus to save them. All 4 are (or in a few year’s growth will be) men. I try to remember that when I get skeeved out by a less than stellar example of manhood, and I hope I’m a good enough woman that my boys will grow up with enough perspective and discernment to find a good mate.
*Great-grandfathers, grandfathers, uncles, cousins, brother, ex-husband, husband, and my three boys. I was the only girl grandchild on both my mom and dad’s sides of the family.
Certainly I read it, and certainly I didn’t intend to misrepresent what you said. As far as I could tell, it didn’t seem to make a substantial difference to your meaning whether your last sentence was included or not, so I omitted it.
And I don’t think you sound completely intolerant.
Yes, I read it, and no, I didn’t intend to misrepresent what you said. I think you made your position very clear.
Maybe you’re not doing it right. In all seriousness, though, how’s your Finnish boyfriend feel about all this? Not to pry or anything…
Coo’. Thanks.
FTR, I thought you guys might enjoy this. Forgive me if it’s a little too language-geeky.
No, it was you lining up alongside DianaG saying “The reason you don’t get laid is that women can smell the misogyny coming off you”, but if it makes you feel better to think otherwise, go right ahead. Plus, you get to feel virtuous for deciding that I think rape and manipulation are identical. It’s win-win.
Malacandra, has it occurred to you that the reason I think you don’t especially care for women is that you consistently express your distaste for women? Not “that woman”. Not “some women”. Just “women”.
I’m frankly bored with the whole “women don’t want sex, women are manipulative, women are insensitive, women are blahblahblahblah”. I doubt that you realize you do this. I don’t think it’s intentional. But go back and read your posts in any dating-related thread, and honestly ask yourself if you perhaps come off as more than a little contemptuous of the opposite sex.
I’ve said it before, but it bears repeating… the common denominator in all your relationships is you. If you consistently have bad experiences with women, well… they’re the women you pick, aren’t they?
If you wake up one morning in a sewer, the correct question to ask yourself is “How did I get here?”, not “Why is the world made of shit?”
If you found that quote, you’re amazingly resourceful. If you made it up, you’re a fucking genius!
Well, I found it funny as hell. Does that make me a geek? (probably)
Could we just leave it that most of us are out there trying to do the right thing, being polite and kind and that there are jerks all around us, spoiling things (as they have since time immemorial) for us nice folk? Is that possible? Or will it be all guys are dicks and all gals are ball busting bitches?*
*and please note that the insulting terms seem to revolve around the male anatomy. That’s an interesting subtopic right there.
FaerieBeth–I like men, too. I have two sons. Boys are special (girls are too. I have a daughter as well–I love having kids of both genders.) I used to hang out with men. I was a tomboy my whole childhood/adolescence. The varsity swim team hung out in my house with my brother–so I ended up with about 20 brothers. Which leads me to a funny story.
I had just gotten my driver’s license and my eldest sister and I went to see the movie Grease. On the way home (I was driving), these 5 guys in a car decided to try to spook us. They started to follow us and were calling things out the windows etc. My sister was freaking out. I was scared, but figured–I’m in a car, what can they do?
I drove home. They followed us up our driveway. My sister leapt out the car, ran inside, shouting" they’ve got Eleanor! They’ve got Eleanor!". The guys were just getting out of their car, when 20 guys errupted out of my house-from all doors. Those guys backed out so fast and were GONE. The fact that the swim team was higher than kites never occurred to them–they couldn’t have fought anyone to save their souls. They were on the lawn with the giggles from it all. Ah, memories.
Maybe I’ll try to remember those swimmers when I feel the misogyny getting thick.
I’ll add to that (not directed at any one poster, but because I find this quote so helpful in life). “If your spouse locks you out of the house, you don’t have a problem with your door.”
You are misinterpreting what I am saying or reading evil into it.
If I buy a woman a drink or two, I am hoping to keep her attention on me and not on the Brad Pitt lookalike at the other end of the bar. If she is still talking with me, then the impression I am receiving, more often than not, is that she has some degree of attraction to me. Does this mean we’re going to hop in the sack that night? Of course not! It does lead me to believe that I stand a chance to maybe talk to her outside of the bar. If she doesn’t want to see me again, then fine. I will buy a drink for her out of politeness. If there is no mutual attraction and she doesn’t want my attention, she can:
- say no thanks to further drink offers and walk away or tell me to walk away
- say no thanks but offer to buy me one in exchange. I’ve actually spent a couple hours talking with women at bars doing just this.
If she keeps taking the drinks it keeps giving me hope that there might be more there. I hope I’m reading the signals right.
Let me say once more for the male language impaired: Just because I talk to a woman does not mean that I expect her to spend the rest of the night with her ankles behind her ears in my bed.
If she keeps giving signals that she is attracted to me (not just accepting drinks but the touching, pressing against me, the flirting signals, etc) but is actually doing it as part of a game, then I am a fool for missing out her true nature but she is an asshole for being manipulative and just using me for her little games.
As for a woman’s clothing being a provocative precursor, yes it does occasionally serve that function. But a woman can be wearing a burkha and move in just the right way and give the right looks with her eyes and be more attractive and alluring than a woman who is showing off everything except her cervix. If you want to show off your cleavage or pants cut low enough that your thong shows, don’t be surprised if men notice and stare and don’t think that we are all pigs/assholes/misogynists. We like seeing beautiful women. If a guy is wearing a shirt that shows off his muscular chest or pants tight enough so you can see whether or not he is circumcised, is he supposed to be pissed off that a woman looks at his package? When you put something on display, you might say that you do it because you are proud of how look and it makes you feel good to wear those clothes but you are wearing them in places that others will see and notice. You also hope that someone will notice, whether it is your husband, boyfriend or potential suitor, and let you know that they find you attractive. But you know damn well that he will not be the only male looking.
I used to buy them a drink in return and say ‘Now we’re even.’ and if I didn’t like the guy that was immediately followed with ‘Have a nice night.’
Also, talky people, please stop trying to talk everything to death. I don’t wanna talk about my feelings about the discussion about the butter. OK?
Just stop it.
It’s funny you should say that, because the bolded passage reminds me of the thought that came to my mind a while after you’d posted something about how people of your acquaintance were constantly believing they’d been hit on when you thought they hadn’t, and you had this problem with men thinking you’d been hitting on them when you thought you hadn’t been, and I thought: what’s the one common denominator here, DianaG?
I’m sorry if I come over as contemptuous. We may have a communication failure here; what you view as “contempt” I view as “refusal to praise when it isn’t due”. If I talk about women’s lack of sexual desire, it’s not that I’m declaring that this is not how things should be; I’m merely rebutting the viewpoint that says they’re up for it as much as men are. And for heaven’s sake, how many times do I have to qualify everything I say with “In my experience…”?
I apologise for your boredom. The feeling’s mutual. And as for “the women I pick”, this is just the “you haven’t met the right woman yet” line wearing another set of clothes. What can I say but that, in my experience, the right woman doesn’t exist?
And now I’ll stop saying what you, for a start, don’t want to listen to. Just don’t complain that men never try to communicate, huh? I’ve had this before, too, but God forbid that I should generalise and say “When women say they want honesty, they still want you to say what they want to hear; they just want reality revised so that what you’re saying is the truth.” 