Well, yes and no. It is a good question to ponder… why is it that some parents don’t want to teach their kids basic tenants of good behavior from a young age? Aren’t we humans supposed to be so intelligent, especially babies/toddlers? Their brains are like sponges at that age and I think it’s silly to think that they can’t learn these simple concepts. So yes it does make me wonder, if you can teach a dog these things, why not a 2-year old?
It’s because some parents spoil their kids. That is why you see so many out-of-control brats running around. Parents aren’t teaching their kids proper behavior because ohhh! It’s just so heartbreaking to tell little Junior no! And of course, it’s “TOTALLY DIFFERENT” when it’s your own kids!!! It’s just so “heartless” to not let Junior do whatever the hell he wants!!
**bluethree **- Fuck playpens. Let that little bastard get into my piranha tank just once, that’ll teach him to sit where the hell I tell him to while I’m off paintin’ my nails.
You should work where I work. I am in the vast minority of childless workers. I come in earlier and stay later because the others won’t. I get asked first to do stuff on evenings and weekends because people know I don’t have kids. If I need something at 5:01PM, f*ing forget it, they’re headed out the door so fast that my ears pop from the pressure change. If I complain about putting in more time than other people, I get “well, you’ll understand when you have kids.” Most jobs I’ve been at have been like this, to one extent or the other.
Fine, catsix, next time I shall be abrupt, peremptory, and disdainful. I shall demand of you, “Will you never learn?” I shall inquire as to your intellect, heritage, and common sense.
What the fuck is your problem? You show up just to take a drive by at me? The first time in four pages that you show up in this thread is to attempt a one-line shot at me? I’m glad you focus on me so much, really I am.
I tried to explain that it was just one of my ‘things’. Everybody has those ‘things’ that makes their skin crawl. I’m not accusing you of being overly mean. I don’t think you were. I just thought I should put a reason behind why I reacted the way I did.
Of course you can teach good behavior at a young age - but it depends on which behavior, how young and what the consequences are. For example, I couldn’t take a shower if I was home alone when my son was a toddler. He could get out of the the playpen by the time he was 18 months old, I was pretty sure he could get past the stair gate if he wanted to, and I know he could have gotten out the front door. It’d be a little harsh ( and negligent of me) if his punishment for climbing out of the playpen was being hit by a car. Doesn’t mean I didn’t use a playpen- I sure did, when I could see or hear what was going on. Doesn’t mean my kids were or are spoiled- they’re not. It does mean I didn’t expect an 18 month old to connect me being upset or giving him a time out or taking a privilege away now to the fact that he climbed out of the playpen twenty minutes ago. (the delay doesn’t work for dogs either). It does mean that I didn’t expect an 18 month old to be smart enough and mature enough to realize he shouldn’t run out the front door, or turn the knob on the stove or do any of the million other dangerous things that might cross his mind once he climbed out of the playpen. Because, after all, if an 18 month old were that smart and that mature, I wouldn’t need the playpen to begin with.
Fair enough; but you could try things like locking the front door; keeping him in the bathroom with you while you shower; putting him down for quiet time or a nap in his room with the door closed. Or better yet, you could bathe together. Seriously, that sounds like a good bonding experience, and you kill two birds with one stone!
Anecdote on the training/learning ability of very young children –
My sister-in-law taught each of her children that they were only allowed to drink while sitting down. Her reasoning was that it would greatly lessen the chances of a child dropping and breaking a cup or glass, meaning fewer chances of them getting hurt and, of course, cut way down on accidental spills. This, btw, was the way she and her siblings were raised.
I don’t know the exact age, but she started teaching them that at whatever point you switch to cups instead of bottles for drinking and the kids were just toddling. (Do those happen more or less at the same developmental stage?) Anyway, I was quite startled the first time I asked Erica, Do you want a drink? and she immediately plopped her little bottom onto the floor and held up her hands. Her mother had to explain that that meant “yes”, because she was ‘assuming the position’ to drink.
Obviously, at least some children can be taught ‘manners’ type rules way before age 2.
Yes, of course they can be taught. I’ve seen plenty of very young children who obey and follow instructions. The parents just need the patience to do it.
If they don’t let the baby cry to sleep once in a while then they will never get any sleep and heaven help them if they have anymore kids! When I was surrounded by babies that was the first thing I learned. Often times when small children are tired they get very fussy (sometimes they will also get insanely hyper) and then you just need to put them in their crib and walk away. A two year old child is not going to be emotionally scarred for life because you let them sleep when they were tired. In fact, I think you’d do more damange by constantly caterring to the baby’s every need.
Among the Utku, an Inuit tribe in the Canadian artic, mothers will often let their babies just cry because the culture strongly disapproves of any display of negatively. Toddlers throwing tantrums are equally as ignored. Because of this, there are almost no fights or anger problems among the adult members of the tribe.
That’s not all that flash for a dog either. Dogs respond a whole lot better to positive feedback than negative, but you knew that right?
Yeah, I was talking about a two month old. It depends on why the baby is crying. Generally in the very early stages the most important thing to teach a child is that you are there for them, nothing more, nothing less. You can’t “spoil” a two month old child.
All children are different, ours gets a bit fussy when tired, but if she’s tired she’s asleep as soon as we put her to bed (i.e., she fusses till we put her to bed.) She’s only 5 months and sleeps through from about 8pm till 6am. She rarely cries herself to sleep, and when she does, it’s a quiet wimper, not a “pain” or “hungry” cry.
Of course it is a lack of care, what do you think a lack of care is exactly? You failed to take the care to check that you had the right username. That is no big deal and Frank treated it as no big deal.
Human mistakes generally stem from a lack of care. You do need to be more careful. If you take the time to ensure that you have the right username everytime you quote, then the mistake won’t happen. Once again, it’s no big deal, the only person who made it a big dea was you. Apparently because,
That’s a hell of a character flaw you got there. Your really bristle at “please be more careful in the future”? I think that one comes under “Anti Authority” in the list of undesireable attitudes.
And no, if you are ALWAYS careful, mistakes don’t happen (in this type of circumstance.)
This is the best way to discourage tantrums, IMO. My son threw a couple. Literally threw himself to the floor, pounded with his fists and kicked with his feet. I walked over him (to make sure he knew I was ignoring him) and out of the room. He stopped screaming very quickly. Now, that was at home. Little different when you’re in the supermarket and there are people throwing you disapproving looks and saying to each other loudly “someone should do something about that brat.” He has an advantage, he knows he does, and he’s taking it. Hey, toddlers know nuthin bout no ethics.
Works with some kids- worked fine with my daughter, in fact. She wasn’t the adventurous, curious, type, and she took a 2 hour nap every day like clockwork But when I said he could get out the front door, I meant I was sure he could open all three locks. He was an unpredictable napper- could sleep for 2 hours or it could be five minutes. No point in taking him into the bathroom with me- he wouldn’t have stayed. He’s still the adventuous type, but at 15 he’s mature enough not to take stupid, possibly fatal risks.
Manners-type rules are a lot easier to teach. First of all the parent or other adult is generally there to see the misbehavior, and the misbehavior doesn’t have such drastic counsequnces. The kid who I couldn’t leave alone while I was taking a shower behaved perfectly in restaurants at the same age. But I was sitting at the table with him, not in another room, able only to hear the water coming out of the shower. And the consequence would have been we got the food packed up and left, not a trip to the emergency room.
Geez, that’s a better way to handle it than what my mom did. She proudly tells anyone that she’d get down on her knees and help me bang my head on the floor!
Sorry for the hijack. But it does help explain why I chose not to have kids, incidentally.
Someone pointed this out earlier. All kids are different. It’s impossible to expect the exact same behaviour out of every single one. Just because one child responds one way, it does not necessarily follow the next will as well. You raise them the same, you treat them the same, you love them the same. But they’re independent people with minds of their own, and they do tend to make their own decisions, regardless of your expectations. So trying to put a blanket “this works, do it” for every one of them is rather like trying to see an end to this discussion…
Actually, every new mom I know has had one of these (now called “playards” or “pack-n-plays”) on her baby registry. But don’t let your lack of knowledge about current parents get in the way of a sarcastic rolleyes.
