Or what we attractive people like to call “a good Tuesday night!”
What’s stopping you?
So the excerpts in the OP were all from women. I promised myself I’d also add some excerpts from men, and so this is me doing that:
[ul]
[li]In 2001 I was diagnosed with cancer… People’s actions and reactions towards me changed immediately. I received less invites to parties. Dating was out of the question, the “let’s just be friends” line became the standard. Getting promoted (heck, getting taken more serious in work and personal affairs) became extremely hard. I didn’t “sell” myself as well, anymore. Sure, the contents were the same, but the box they came in was, let’s just admit it, fugly.[/li]
[li]It’s been truly awful. I feel like I’m missing out on a lot of life.I topped out a bit over 5’ tall. As a male, that’s the kiss of death. Unlike other forms of unattractiveness, there’s nothing I can do about it… I’m smart, fairly well off financially, interesting, well traveled, loyal and extremely generous … but all that hasn’t been able to overcome my height. The research shows that unless I become a millionaire, I’m pretty much out of luck. If I could spend $500,000 to become 5’10", I’d do it without thinking twice… I remember one speed dating event where a woman spent the whole 10 minutes with me filing her nails and doing her make up… In a weird way, it’s an invisible thing, despite being a completely visible thing. My friends (male and female) will make jokes about short men in front of me… I also get to hear female friends go on about what jerks all men are, how they cheat, aren’t trustworthy, etc. and I see the jerks that women are willing to tolerate. That really grates on me… Being an unattractive man is especially hard because men are the ones expected to make the first move. This means constantly being subjected to rejection.[/li]
[li]**eing unattractive, flawed, weak, undesired or unwanted can ultimate be a gift. A gift that leads to greater insight, character, strength, wisdom, empathy and understanding than most will never know.[/li]
[li]No one can ever describe the incredible, excruciating pain that is experienced when you are spit on and pummeled in front of the girl you like and there is nothing you can do, no pitiful struggle you can make that will counter the effects. All you can see is that girl looking at you with disgust. You don’t feel the punches or hear the derision and laughter or the warm spit on your face. Just the extinguishing of any hope you may have ever felt of sitting with her at the lunch table while everyone sees you with her, laughing and joking as equals. But you aren’t equal. You’re worthless… And later, when everyone is gone, after they have delivered the last kick to your prone body and you see the kingpin with his arm around that girl, what do you have left? Is there any dignity? Is there hope? And you know you will have to go to school the next day and experience it all over again. And the day after that. And on and on and on. And when your siblings distance themselves from you because they recognize that you are deadweight dragging them down, it’s further pain, further humiliation… And despite being ugly and unwanted, you still have the same sexual urges as any attractive man. You can only masturbate so much. So how long do you think it is before you break down and contradict a lifetime of moral teaching and overcome enormous fear of disease and jail and even more intense ridicule such that you go out and seek a prostitute. And how do you feel when you realize that is what you are, so undesirable that you are reduced to this, a scabby, needle-scarred woman chain smoking and jerking you off in an alley. And crying all the way home at your humiliation, knowing that as bad as it is, you will do it again next week and the week after and the week after that because something inside you demands it, and you know no pretty, decent woman is ever going to touch you… And the ongoing ridicule, even in college, where things are supposed to get better, where you are every girl’s friend because you are too undesirable to actually date. They want back rubs and let you touch their skin but never thier lips. They want you to “help” them with papers, and then leave with their boyfriends. They play backgammon and discuss politics, but then blow some strange guy they met at a party. But never you. Never. Not even one time. And the years go by… And if you go to a bar or a nightclub, you are always on the outside looking in. When you finally get up the courage (for the 1000th time) to talk to that woman, you can actually see the contempt and disgust on her face, undisguised in most cases, and you get rejected, for the 1000th time.[/li]
[li]What’s the worst: you are invisible to women.[/li]
[li]The other little turn is that, for whatever reason (since no one else in my family is), I turned out quite short. I can’t tell you how many times some woman has seen me somewhere, or a photo of me, wanted to get to know me better, then realized she had something else to do the minute we both stood up.[/li]
[li]Even when I was young I realized I was quite unattractive. But I was hopeful, I used to believe that humans weren’t shallow creatures. Over the years I asked a number of girls out, and got flat out rejected. No, I didn’t get rejected after a date or something; I wasn’t even given a chance. Only one girl actually went out for a month with me and then I had to go away for college. She still says I am one of the nicest guys she’s ever been with. How many of you have ever seen amicable breakups where the girl doesn’t feel that “the last guy was an asshole”?[/li][/ul]
I am at best cute. If I get attention, I never really notice it. I had a boyfriend who was both ridiculously good looking, plus very charming and charismatic. It was eye opening to see how people, men and women, were drawn to him. Strangers would gravitate to him. If we were out having lunch somewhere, it was very common for people to just start talking to him and not let us get back to our conversation. Women were always throwing themselves at him, even when I was right there. I asked him if it had always been that way in his life, and he said it had. Always being the magnet was hard.
Heh. I don’t know if the last sentence was sarcasm, but I’m guessing it is. If you don’t mind my asking, whatever happened to the bf? Also, re: the women, what did you do about that?
I was very unattractive for decades, and in a very short time (thanks to many things) became attractive. It was a stunning experience for me; the differences heightened awareness of both sides of the equation. I wrote a lengthy post about it if anyone really wants to read another story about Una and the big T.
I used to go to a particular club now and then where I felt particulary unattractive. It seemed like all the men were over 6 feet tall and I am 5’7". They also all looked to be proffessionals where I was blue collar. For some reason I would usually end up scoring at this place because I was a bit of an oddity, but if I were to try and pick up my odds would have been sorely against me. I used a strategy where I just sat at the bar and waited to see if someone expressed interest. Usually someone did.
This thread is timely for me, as I just watched Shallow Hall on cable. I didn’t really get the message. Jack Black was dating fat Gwyneth Paltrow, but because he could only see people’s “inner beauty” she looked like skinny Gwyneth Paltrow? But IRL people think skinny Gwyneth Paltrow is kind of a bitch. And in the film, all the hot girls were bitches so looked ugly, but the ugly girls were nice, so they looked like hot bitches?
Anyhow, I digress…
So…are people “unattractive” like they don’t look Bradley Cooper or “unattractive” like they do look like Bradley Cooper…playing Joseph Merrick?
How attractive are you relative to your friends and how attractive are all of you relative to the general population in your area?
How important is attractiveness in your world?
If you ask a girl out on a date and she says “no”, do you internalize it that there’s something wrong with you or just blow it off as you weren’t her type?
What is your expectation of how women should act towards you? Do you think they owe you a blowjob just because you say “hi”?
How much attention do you pay to other aspect of your life - family, friends, career, general fitness levels, interests, etc.
Are you a weird guy? There is a fine line between being a quirky interesting guy that women are attracted to and a creepy weirdo.
I guess I’m fortunate since I’ve always reasonably attractive. Not King of the Prom A-list movie star good looking or anything, but good looking enough that if a girl shot me down for a date, I didn’t start Googling plastic surgeons. Any shortcomings or failures I may have had in life, generally not being good looking enough didn’t really factor into it (as far as I know).
My point is, I have to wonder how someone gets to a point that they are so “unattractive” that their entire life is complete shit. I know plenty of dudes (and women) who are physically not that good looking. Even ugly. And yet somehow they manage to meet people. Go on dates. Have careers. Get married and have kids.
Honestly I feel like this entire thread is the product of an online social networking reality show culture where people don’t feel like they have value unless they get a million “likes” by a bunch of total strangers.
I think this is something you’re projecting on to this thread.
Most, if not all, of the responses have been nuanced and have basically said there are some differences between being attractive and not, but it’s not such a big deal.
Some have even said it’s better to be unattractive (though personally I’d file that with “stuff people say to make themselves feel better. Warning: do not scrutinize”).
You’re right though that when it comes to dating, people like to think of some external excuse for their lack of success, something that means they can give up. But working on social skills, being open to people and having more interests in your life can make up for a lot of physical differences.
I’m much more successful with women now I’ve lost my looks than I ever was back in my modelling days.
I voted for the 3rd one because from what I’ve seen, VERY attractive people sometimes get too much of the wrong kinds of attention. I think you will find out with women, the 5s-7s probably get the most dates because men feel more comfortable approaching them.
Yes.
In the Virginia suburbs outside Washington DC. A highly educated, professional, Eastern (and only very slightly Southern) demographic.
I still see it, but not as constantly and openly as it was in the 70’s/80’s. Especially toned down is the chatter from construction sites. I suspect the owners have begun to make rules about this behavior. I certainly do see it on the rare occasions that I go into the city or ride the Metro.
Yes, I have looked at an attractive man, but I don’t gawk or stare, and I try to keep my expression neutral. I certainly don’t start making fastidious judgements about his clothing choices, or planning out how he’s going to make me happy.
If a person has placed themselves on display (hint, this does not include simply walking while wearing a mini-skirt) then it’s OK to look at them. This might include movie stars who are being paid to attend an event (and NOT while out having dinner with their families!) or professional Models who are posing to display clothing. Note that the people who do this are highly paid for it. This is not only because their particular appearances are rare, but also because it is very unpleasant work.
What is not OK is to imagine that simply because a person is attractive, their minds and personalities no longer come into play. Or that because you find them attractive they owe you anything at all including tolerance of rude or annoying behavior.
Money. See “unemployment nightmare” above. 
It’s also not just matter of getting it done once; it has to be maintained. So when I do have a job/money again, the problem then will be time.
Have I taught you nothing?!? Yes, it is hard to be a magnet. :rolleyes:
I would be very interested. Going in the other direction must be a very different experience. I’m guessing you enjoyed it at first, but did you eventually get tired of it?
What do you mean by “Do not scrutinize”? And how do you reconcile these two statements?
This is also very true. Most men (and fewer, but some, women) have this whole “league” thing in their heads (as in, “I’m not in her league”) and will therefore not even make the attempt to get to know a woman they find very attractive. Most of the truly beautiful women I’ve known spent a LOT of Saturday nights alone at home.
There is an interesting book by this title. Well worth reading.
What I meant by do not scrutinize is that messages that are intended to make us feel better about something that on the face of it is a bad aspect of life, rarely stand up to scrutiny.
But then they rarely get scrutinized. You’re supposed to take the positive message, get a little consolation, and not think too much about it.
One is rejecting the idea that it’s better to be unattractive. The other is saying that I personally have been more successful with women since I lost my looks (because my social skills have improved greatly alongside generally “getting a life”). I would be more successful still if I looked like I used to, plus had the social skills I have now.
What’s interesting is to ask myself the question whether I’d go back to looking like I did and being as hopeless at actually talking to people as I was.
And actually, for me, it’s a tough call – it was so nice to have so many girls interested in me, feeling welcome everywhere…
On balance I would pick now over then, just because I’d always choose knowledge over ignorance. I was very confused and ignorant about how relationships worked.
I was really strong in high school. Part of my motive for working out so much was having a violent dad, and I thought I might become too strong to hit. Besides that, I was healthy but pimply, it felt really good to work out and to become stronger and stronger. It was a good outlet for my anger, too. I didn’t play football, nor did I face much physical bullying.
But in college and elsewhere, I felt like some people assumed I must be dumb or didn’t take me too seriously. It was sometimes awkward in math and engineering classes. I was there on an academic scholarship, but I was set apart by being so physical around all these nerds. I didn’t have a problem with nerds, I was one of them, but it didn’t seem that way, it seemed like I was something else and it seemed hard to fit in.
Now? Meh, don’t care. And I’m more tall than muscly these days anyway.
I think it’s great that you are aware of this and trying to change it, no lie. This is incredibly common and yeah, women are aware of it. There’s another site I belong to that’s ~50% women and an ongoing joke (or barb, depending) is that women are shrubbery. Just part of the background. It happens even online when no one knows how anyone looks.
The reason this issue frustrates me SO damn much is that it’s compounded even further and negatively impacts a lot of other things that (general) you wouldn’t suspect.
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[li] It really is a type of invisibility/non-existence – it’s not just that you’re not perceived as a woman, but you’re not perceived at all. [/li]
[li] A guy who does this unintentionally will also unintentionally perceive many tiny, disparate things inaccurately. For example, there are men who will insist the linked graphic is completely accurate; that 90% of women want the top 10% of men, ignoring the remaining 90% of men out there. Buuuuuut… If a man – again, unconsciously – does not see a whole class of women because they’re below an unconscious threshold of attractiveness, that graphic is then only including those women who are seen as attractive (and hence, visible). That is pretty damn ironic, y’know?..[/li]
[li] It makes it even more maddening that many men can’t believe women when it comes to our own lives. The recent thread about women-only gyms is an excellent example of this. So many men expressed doubts that there were any actual reasons women would want to not go to a mixed-sex gym. Then women posted, giving so many reasons, sharing personal experiences, backing up and agreeing with other women’s points … And then? Multiple men suggesting the women misinterpreted events, or dismissed things because they didn’t think it was a big deal so it just isn’t, or giving “advice” on how women should act in scary situations (based on their own experiences as women. Wait…), or repeating that they needed evidence that these these things were actually a problem.[/li]
I mean, so.many.men argued that they’ve never seen any of this go on. But … How can (general) you trust that perception at all, if you don’t even see a whole class of women because they’re below an unconscious threshold of attractiveness?
[/ul]
Whenever anyone says they’re attractive–or not–it’s always interesting to see their pictures to find out whether I agree.
I really don’t think this is a “thing men do to women”; it’s a thing people do to people.
As a guy, believe me I can relate to the feeling of being somewhere where whoever you talk to (male or female) is aloof and not really pay attention to you, because you are not perceived to be one of the “high value” people there. Yes, it happens to us too.
That’s not to excuse rudeness. You can’t find everyone equally interesting, but you can be fair to people; give them a chance to be interesting to you.
Oh, but nothing pissed me of more than the man saying that perhaps it was something in our behavior that made people not want to help us! So not only are we getting harassed/molested/whatever in the first place, and that’s probably our fault, too, but we’re also that ugly or mean or unsociable that people don’t even want to help us.
This is a complicated issue that probably goes beyond mere appearance. Here’s an observation. There are some people who are considered so attractive that they’re going to attract attention regardless of personality or social skills. There are people who are not physically attractive but have a personality that lights up the room. If they have social skills and self confidence, they’ll be able to find partners. Some people are considered decent looking enough by most, but lack social skills and/or self confidence. They have trouble getting dates, but people who don’t know them that well often can’t see why. I was in that category. I can remember standing around shooting the breeze with some coworkers when the topic of dating came up. One woman turned to me and said, “I’m sure you don’t have any trouble finding girl friends.” Well, I was 26 at the time and hadn’t been on a date in a couple of years. Statements like that made me feel hopeless. I felt like I was invisible to women, and that no one saw me as someone they’d be interested in romantically. Looking back my problem wasn’t being physically unattractive (although I was still pretty sure I was at that time), but my extreme lack of confidence and social skills probably hurt me with women more than being physically unattractive ever could. There’s a passage from Roald Dahl’s book The Twits that I really like: “you can have a double chin, a wonky nose, and stick-out teeth. But if you think good thoughts they will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you can never be ugly.” There’s a lot of truth to that.
Exactly. By the way he still hasn’t PM’d me.