What is the best thing to do in this situation? (Disabled, Domestic Violence)

In My Humble Opinion
1

While I am certain what the conclusive answer will be (nothing), I’m interested in your opinions, as this is a situation that causes me great concern. This is going to be a bit long, but I figure all the information is somewhat relevant.

My roommate and I are two 21 year old college students who live alone. I figure a little background never hurts.

Anyway, our apartments are two stories and we are up on the top floor. Below us live two girls who I am 100% certain are mentally handicapped in some way. This isn’t some WAG on our behalf- aside from the fact the girls look somewhat handicapped (this is where everyone jumps in and calls me a bitch, but there is something to it), we’ve talked to them numerous times and they are most certainly mentally disabled in some way. Further, every morning, different people in polo shirts with logos we never can read come into their house and do things like clean, take out the trash, etc.; naturally, we assume those folks are from some group coming to help**.

One of the girls is seemingly more disabled than the other. While the one drives and doesn’t do things like fidget while walking and stuff, the other does not drive, does not work, and fidgets a ton. The one who drives is often visited by people who I assume are her parents- always very well dressed, always in very nice cars, and always visiting for very short periods of time. All that said though, they are nice girls and I’m glad that they are able to live independently and care for themselves- that really is awesome.

That said, up until recently they would sometimes fight- you’d hear shrieking and shouting, then sobbing and crying. That’s not particularly weird or anything, though definitely a little annoying sometimes- I will say though that it was so sporadic that it really was inconsequential.

Lately though, there has been a man around their house, which in itself isn’t a big deal. My roommate and I jokingly call the guy Kevin Federline- he wears wife beater tank tops, sweat pants, and house shoes. He is there all day and often drives the car. None of this though is anything worth noticing.

Ever since he’s been staying there though, there have been tremendous VIOLENT fights. We hear people being thrown against the wall (sure, it might be something else, but when something hits the wall so hard that it shakes upstairs, something big hit it), screaming, sobbing, screams of, “NO! STOP HITTING ME!” and more. It’s truly awful.

My roomie is home most of the day, while I’m at school and work- so she often hears more of the drama than I do. So, one day when she noticed the guy had left and she saw the more “normal” girl outside, she popped over to say hi. Roomie asked her if everything was ok, because we’d heard lots of screaming and loud noises. The girl laughed nervously and said, “Oh, it’s my roommate’s boyfriend.” And kept insisting there was nothing going on.

The next night, my roomie and I were carving pumpkins with our front door open for some cool air. Suddenly, there were several VERY loud thumps that rattled the walls (I seriously would have thought it was an earthquake if it weren’t for the screaming downstairs). Then I said, “That’s fuckin’ it” and I ran to the bottom of our stairs- not really thinking this through, because really- what’s a 5’3’’ 21 year old girl going to do? Anyway, as I got down the stairs their door is open. The more handicapped girl is holding the less handicapped girl behind the open door, while the less handicapped girl was pointing across the apartment at a place I couldn’t see and screaming, “STOP HITTING! STOP HITTING ME! YOU CAN’T HIT ME BECAUSE I WONT LET YOU TAKE MY CAR! IT HURTS WHEN YOU HIT ME! YOU HURT ME!”

I looked at my roommate and told her to go upstairs and call the police. I also stood there, looking both girls in the eye so they were aware someone was there. Strangely, the girl kept screaming about being hit, before the guy came over, saw me, and slammed the door.

The police came pretty quickly, asked us some questions, and went to talk to them. The girl told them everything was fine, so they had to leave. The shrieking continued well into 1 in the morning- cries, screams, sobs.

We called back and spoke to the police officer, telling her they were still screaming and we understand they can’t do anything, but what do we have to see for them to do something. She said that even if we saw him beating the crap out of the girl in a public part of the complex, there still wouldn’t be much they could do.

In the weeks since, he is still there everyday and the screaming, thumping, and crying hasn’t stopped at all. While I understand everyone has their rights, I just feel that because these girls are handicapped it makes it that much more despicable that this guy (who isn’t obviously handicapped in any way, though I might be wrong) is roughing up at least one of these women almost every day. I know it probably makes me a busy-body, but I’d feel the same way if I heard someone beating the shit out of their child every day and throwing them against the walls.

We realize there really isn’t much we can do, so we’ve taken to making sure he realizing we are watching him. Whenever he is outside, we make eye contact with him- small things like that. For what it’s worth, I’m not scared he’s going to do anything to us, for whatever dumb reasoning I may have. I just want him to stop hurting these girls.

Do you guys have any suggestions (legal, within the realm of ok, etc. heh) about things we can do? If we hear them fighting, should we knock on the door and see if things are ok? Should we call the police and file a noise complaint? Should we continue to let our presence be known? Any advice is good advice, I’m just at a loss here.
**Ever since Kfed moved in, these people don’t come by anymore.

2

Well, even if there is no way to stop it you shouldn’t have to put up with it.
I’d call your landlord and have a long chat with him about what’s been going on. I’m sure he’d appreciate knowing about it and he probably won’t be too crazy about the idea of people physically fighting in his place possible damaging doors, walls, etc.
And he probably has a better chance of tossing them out if he has some consistent complaints from other residents.

3

Hampshire- Our complex is massive- something like 500 units. There is a management company that is incredibly unhelpful- also, the girls in the office are absolutely useless. They pretty much wont do anything without multiple police reports (we live in a nicer complex, so there aren’t many complaints).

So, I suppose we could bother the police by continuing to file noise complaints, but I don’t know if that would even be a big deal in the long run. After all, don’t they have to be shrieking right when the police get here- like, they have to hear it themselves- for anything to happen? I mean, that wouldn’t be hard- when they fight, they fight for HOURS.

4

Any chance you could intercept the parents that visit and express you concerns?

5

WTF? The police have reports of apparent domestic violence and WONT DO ANYTHING even if it’s witnessed in public???

That sounds really, really crazy.

I would, personally, contact the landlord and let him know. I’m guessing that if these girls have some sort of disability, there is some other responsible party listed on the lease.

Contact a local shelter to find out what they recommend. In the meantime, take detailed notes of whatever you hear. If you have a tape recorder, record as much as you can.

And yes, call the police EVERY time you hear anything like this.

6

I would keep calling the police about noise complaints. If they come by when there is yelling going on, especially the “stop hitting me” part, I believe they will have to intervene to some extent.

If the knowledge I have learned from COPS is correct I believe in California that if a cop witnesses abuse they do not have to have one of the parties press charges to arrest people and that they can arrest people on behalf of the state even if niether party wants to press charges.

But at the very least I would keep calling the cops.

7

I’d second trying to talk with the parents when you see them. It’s too bad the hired help isn’t coming anymore; I was going to recommend speaking with them before I saw your footnote.

You might also try having a conversation with one or both of the girls when K-Fed isn’t around (although it sounds like he’s there all the damned time). Let them know that you’re aware of what they’re going through, and see if there are resources you can point them to for help. I can’t imagine how intimidated they must feel by this guy, and all the more so because they’re more at the mercy of “powerful” people than the average bear.

One more idea is to see if you can get the license number of the car. I think this varies from state to state, but often the legal owner of the car associated with that license plate is public information. It seems unlikely to me that the girl who has the car is its owner; her parents are probably the owners. By finding out their names and addresses, you could write a letter notifying them of what you know. (I was once stalked by a guy who showed up at my apartment. He found out where I lived by going to the DOV with my license plate info.)

8

I’m usually gone during the daylight hours, but I’ll give my roommate the idea to keep a heads up for them. As I said, the parents come by very quickly- usually only to drop her off out of their shiny Mercedez. THIS is a total WAG on my behalf, but I think they are maybe well to do and just want her out of their hair. Our apartments are not cheap at all, so they are shelling out money for her to live in a nice place, she has a brand new convertible VW (a Jetta, I think), etc. It sounds awful, but I kind of get the impression they are throwing money at “the problem” so they don’t have to deal with it. Like, I’ve never seen them hang out at the house for any period of time (and we’ve lived here about 15 months). Again though, that’s a total WAG on my part.

And yes, the police explicitly told my roommate (she asked about 5 different ways, to make sure we were all clear) that there is more or less NOTHING they can do if the victim says everything is fine. My roommate pointed out we heard her say “You can’t hit me!” and that she’s handicapped, the officer said it legally doesn’t make a difference. She said that even if we saw him hit her, it wouldn’t make a difference if she denied it.

Mama Zappa - the recording idea isn’t a bad one. I should note that the walls are THICK in our complex, I’ve literally never heard any of our other neighbors (who we share walls with and in one case I know they have small kids), yet I hear these ones screaming and fighting quite clearly all the time.

I will for sure continue to continue to call the police. The other night they were going at it and I was trying to convince my roommate to go down there with me. I know, not the best idea, but I thought it might make it stop. I figured we could frantically knock on the door and say we heard loud thumps/screaming and wanted to make sure no one fell and hurt them self.

9

All you can do is keep calling the police. And calling, and calling, and calling.

Good luck.

10

My roommate went down there and talked to the more “normal” girl one day when he left, as I mentioned. Roomie was very sweet and friendly, from what I hear, and was trying to be engaging. I guess the girl just kept insisting that everything was fine. She also kept saying, “It’s my roommate’s boyfriend.” But the thing is, the night of the huge blow up, eventually the more handicapped girl was picked up by someone (I think her mother, from the looks of it- but I’ve never before seen this particular woman around) and the guy stayed. I actually haven’t seen the more handicapped girl for a while, but just the less handicapped one and Kfed, so I’m wondering if it is HER boyfriend.

Anyway, my roommate asked her, “Are you sure everything is ok? Are you sure he doesn’t hurt you?” The way roomie recited this back to me, it was presenting a lot like one would talk to a child- in a very non threatening, friendly manner. The girl kept insisting that nothing was wrong and that it was her roommate’s boyfriend. My roommate told her ok, but that we are always here if they need anything and that we’ll be looking out for them in case things do happen.

FABULOUS idea. I can’t believe we haven’t thought of that! And I’m sorry about your stalker- that’s so scary, I never even thought of that as a possibility!

11

As a volunteer counselor/advocate for a domestic violence and sexual assault center, I can say the following:

  • Keep calling the police. It may just be the specific officer decided that it wasn’t worth pursuing. Different officers react differently to situations.

  • Talk to your local DV center, whatever it is. I found this resource for California. They may be able to help come up with ideas on how to address the situation, and certainly know the legal issues of the area.

People who are mentally or physically handicapped are much more likely to be victims of physical and/or sexual abuse. Additionally, it is less likely that they will be taken seriously if they do report something. It’s a crappy situation.

Thanks for being a good neighbor and a good human being. Just being there for your neighbor(s) is probably one of the best things you can do.

12

From what you described, it sounds like some level of darkness is going on there and if you can here it from two floors down, what are the neighbors closer hearing and not saying a word about?
Technically it is not your battle, however, standing by when someone who is less able to care or stick up for themselves is potentially being abused ( verbally/ physically/both) is not an option.

Short of banging on the door the next time the crying and loud noises start and saying, " What’s going on in there!!!???" Which can get a little intense and intrusive, if not cause you bodily harm which would be very bad. all I can see is is a sit, watch and wait. It’s hell, but until you get your adamantium skeleton and retractable claws, you are just a mere mortal. no capes!

  1. Keep calling the cops with noise complaints. Keep registering greivences with the Landlord. Not against the girls, per se, but with what seems to be a freeloader who is possibly harming them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Eventually, possibly, hopefully something might be done about it before it is too late. Or if it is too late, at least there will be a long record on file at the police station and your conscience is clear. At least you are doing something about it.

  2. Intercept the parents who are probably in the dark about this entire matter.

  3. Possible audio/video of the noise from how you hear it in your apartment as well as from outside their room.

  4. Find out the girls phone number and call every time the yelling and screaming start.

  5. You have already made a difference in their lives if you asked if everything is ok.
    Keep us posted.

13

Yes, I saw that your roommate had spoken with one of the girls, and it sounds like she handled it beautifully.

I meant, keep speaking with them whenever possible. I am sure it will take a long time to build up their trust in either of you (for one thing, they probably trusted this guy and look how that’s turned out). My guess is that he’s threatened to hurt them more if they tell anyone what he does to them, and those threats aren’t idle. Scary.

14

This is fucked up and scary and just so wrong. Diosa, don’t neglect your instincts just because you feel nosy. Whoever’s boyfriend he is, if he’s living there and they’re disabled, there’s a good chance he’s abusing both of them somehow. And it’s not going to get better without some sort of intervention.

Talk to the less diabled woman. Ask her who those people were who used to stop by to do errands. Contact them and let them know that since she left she is being assaulted by her ‘boyfriend.’ They or another care provider needs to come back. If the parents are rich and want to wash their hands of the problem, they shouldn’t mind springing for one. (Now, if they are no longer paying the previous care service- doubt it was volunteer- then they must know about the boyfriend, which is a bit screwed up. Laws for what mentally impaired can or can’t consent to are tricky, but they should know their daughter well enough to know whether she should be in a relationship)

I know you said it’s a big complex and you don’t think the boyfriend would hurt you or your roommate, but please be careful.

15

Is there a government agency responsible for such people, like our Social Services? Try calling them.

16

Oh, they aren’t two floors down- we are on the second floor and they are on the first. Not that that really makes a big difference, of course.

That said, I am personally quite offended that you would dare to suggest that I can’t wear my cape. I like my cape, damnit. And ya know what? It looks FABULOUS with my eyes. So, there! Take that, meanie pants.

See how menacing I am? Now imagine me saying the above in my high pitched, California accent laden voice. Terrifying, no? No wonder he is living in fear of the neighbors above them :wink:
I guess it is about here I should explain my utterly flawed rationale for why we’re not scared of him. We’ve talked about it and as we see it, a person who is so weak that the only people he can manipulate are two handicapped girls isn’t likely capable of doing much to two average folks. That said, I’m probably totally wrong and someone is going to find Kfed down there wearing my skin around my bathroom one day or something. I’m always going to err on the side of caution, though. There are a few times I’ve become so angry that I want to go down and just pound on the door, but I do value my livelihood. Roommate and I have taken to making sure we double lock our door every night, just in case.

And Cat Fight, thank you (and everyone else, actually) for confirming that I’m not just being a nosy neighbor. It really is a concern of mine that I’m butting into something that I shouldn’t be- after all, this is the first time I’ve ever lived on my own. You know what really blew my mind? When they had that knock down, drag out fight, they had their door open and were just SCREAMING. She kept screaming, “DON’T HIT ME! YOU CAN’T HIT ME! IT HURTS WHEN YOU HIT ME! DON’T HIT ME!” and we were quite literally the only neighbors in our little area (of probably, 30 apartments) who came out. I saw one lady quickly peek through her blinds then close them just as quickly. We asked the PD if anyone else had called and they said no. So here are two girls, obviously handicapped, screaming that someone is beating the shit out of them, and we were the only two who did anything. That’s scary. Really scary.

17

Isn’t that what psychologist-types call the diffusion of responsibility? Everybody within earshot figures someone else will do something, so they’re not personally responsible. Like the case of Kitty Genovese, who was murdered within earshot/sight of dozens of her neighbors.

So it’s very commendable that you’re actually doing something about it, even if it doesn’t seem like you can do much.

I second what others have said- keep calling the cops, try to contact your landlord/management company, talk to the girls’ parents, see if Social Services or a domestic violence shelter has any advice. And keep talking to the girls, let them know that you’re there to help if they need it.

18

I’m sure someone will provide a link, but that particular case has been pretty much debunked. Though I have seen the phenomenon up close several times, both while being assaulted in public (by an obvious stranger) and while ‘rescuing’ women from abusive dates or boyfriends. There were no weapons evident in any of the instances (just keys in one, being used like a knife), so witnesses couldn’t even claim fear for their lives.

19

I went and read the Wiki article, so I see the case isn’t as bad as it was made out. However, it was still used as an example of the phenomenon in my Psych book published circa 2001.

Either way, the phenomenon does exist, so my point still stands that Diosa should be commended for actually doing something about it, unlike her other neighbors.

20

The special ed departments of local schools might know exactly what advocacy groups in your area exist for people like this, as they help tranfer special ed students to adult life.

And don’t assume the parents are just trying to get rid of her/ignore her. It may well be the hardest thing they’ve ever done to let her live her own life.