You don’t need any help manufacturing faux pas. Just keep talking.
And I’m going to bed, but have a good night.
Here’s what I meant to point out earlier.
I pointed out that Huey’s “imported” child comments were in response to Shodan’s remarks about black perpetrators. Even if Shodan weren’t intending to load racism into his comments - and I concede in retrospect that that’s possible - Shodan has a history here. Anyone remember this gem?
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20337966&postcount=58
So basically, Shodan is a white guy who seems comfortable using the word, and he further seems to be claiming to be an authority on differentiating regular black folk from n-----s. I somehow doubt that escaped Huey’s attention when he made that remark about Shodan’s “imported” child. It didn’t take me long to find that comment, either. All topped off with that stupid smug “Regards, Shodan” signature to boot. And here you all are rushing to defend him. It’s as if the resident “progressives” on SDMB have this obsession with liberals who make other liberals look bad. I’m sure that Huey has dealt with this before. I guess Huey is the black guy who makes other black guys look bad, right?
I don’t think he gives a fuck whether you think he makes X people look bad, because he’s living his life in spite of your hypocritical and invalid judgment. You’re not his Sunday school teacher, and he ain’t your boy. So deal with it.
No, that’s not it. There’s individual variation among black people as to how they choose to address the fact that they were born into a society that was founded on white supremacy, and to be specific, white supremacy over black subjects. We still use the same constitution that enshrined an economic system that was inherently exploitative. Black people born in America have inherited all of that legacy. Immigrants, though they are indeed often the targets of discrimination, have inherited absolutely none of it. It’s not the same.
It’s up to the individual black person how they wish to address that. The conventional wisdom among fair-minded, moderate white progressives is that whites have changed, and that the best way to achieve progress is to trust that whites will be less racist going forward. Whites also point out that people like Huey are “polarizing” and “counter-productive.” And politically, maybe they’re right. I would find it hard to disagree that Martin Luther King was successful in large part because he chose non-violent protest and he operated in the spirit of integration and tolerance towards whites.
But what you don’t understand -what you’ll never understand - is that it’s a burden that black people carry with them - every day. Jackie Robinson had people try to run him over in the base paths and call him the ‘n’ word during games. And he was told from day one that he couldn’t fight back, even if someone pushed him to the edge. Barack Obama had the burden of being not just president, but being a model for black Americans. When Obama said “The officer acted stupidly” and “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon Martin,” much of white America lost its mind and called him a ‘race-baiter.’ Black people have the burden to be gentlemanly in the eyes of whites, even when whites in this society are held to a much lower standard in return. “Oh, I’m not really a racist, I just, I don’t know…had a bad day and the word ‘n----er’ slipped out. I said I was sorry, right?”
So I can understand it if people like Huey say something like:
“Fuck that, I refuse to be burdened by your expectations of me, especially when I know you hold yourself to a lower standard. Whether you realize you do or not is none of my concern. My life experience and knowledge of American history is my guide here, not your words, and certainly not your attempt to saddle me with a guilt trip and lecture about the experiences of other groups of people you whites have marginalized over the years.”
I think it’s also good for whites to realize that there are Huey’s out there, not just Martin Luther Kings, Jackie Robinsons, and Chris Rocks. I don’t think the Hueys of the world are going to lead any kind of constructive inter-racial dialogue, but I think it’s important to know that people like him exist. If I walk up to random guys on the street and say “Hey, guess what? I banged your mother.” Most would probably stop just short of punching me in the face, but eventually, I’d find one who would. It’s important to know that people like that exist, that you can’t always count on people to be at their best, and how people choose to handle offense is up to the individual.
Whites need to understand that not every black person is interested in being Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Not everyone agrees that turning the other cheek is the best way to deal with racial oppression. It’s important for whites to know that a system that is racist inevitably leads to racial tension, and some people are going to respond to that tension with militarism and hatred.
It doesn’t take a dissertation to say hypocrisy is not helpful. Unfortunately, many people are far too stupid or dishonest to help themselves.
I’ve noticed this is a trend with Twitter edgelords. They use ‘autist’ and ‘autistic’ as synonyms for ‘idiot’ and ‘stupid’ because they know it offends people.
This OP seems to be a slightly different strain, in that there’s some (wrong) theory around it.
I suspect Huey Freeman is just another emotionally damaged, basement-dwelling edgelord just having a go with us.
Huey’s a racist. And you’re hysterical.
Utter bullshit. You’re just making this up to manufacture a false narrative. Nobody rushed to defend Shodans views or values. It was Huey’s nasty attack on Shodan’s child that people objected to.
Again, bullshit. You’re projecting. Huey is a toxic racist who makes only himself look bad.
As for the rest of what you wrote - of course, black people will choose to react differently to their life experiences. And we agree that we must listen to this. But I don’t hear anyone telling Huey that he can’t be angry or militant, that he has no right to have hatred in his heart. That’s a straw man. It’s his racism and other apparent bigotry that people objected to.
You seem to object to white people having anything less than complete acceptance any way a black person chooses to behave. How far are you prepared to take that? If Huey advocated murdering all Jews, would you still be standing wokely shoulder-to-shoulder with him?
I presume not. So then, you’re ultimately just as prepared to use your critical faculties to judge Huey’s views as anyone else. We’re just disputing where the line is. You think toxic bigotry from him is something we should suck up because of his identity, other people don’t.
nc
Umm, how shall we break this to Huey?
Indeed I do. Yes, Shodan’s a douchebag, I agree. His* daughter*, however, should be off limits. 1.) she doesn’t post here, and 2.) she’s a goddamned child. And calling foreign adoptees “imported” is absolutely disgusting, not to mention racist as all fucking hell. Huey doesn’t get a pass on that because of what blacks have suffered. Nope, sorry. Depending on where Shodan’s daughter is from (did he say), her people may have suffered quite a bit too.
Where did I say he makes anybody look bad, other than himself?
It has nothing to do with being “counter-productive”, or “polarizing”. It’s being a dick. Nobody said he had to be Gandhi, or at least, I didn’t.
And that fucking sucks. But not everyone goes around saying the n-word, or is automatically a racist, just because they happen to be white either.
The only “expectation” I have of him, was not to be a douchbag. Just like everyone else around here. If he’s going to use slurs (against other minorities, which he has), then he can’t turn around and act like an innocent victim.
I don’t think he has to be Martin Luther King. (He’s definitely no Malcolm X, though. THAT idea is a joke)
It’s not a choice between “turn the other cheek” and “go on the attack”. Not to mention, not all of the attacks at Huey have been about race. So quit turning it to that. People were pissed that he was mocking their kids or about autism, for example.
YOU, however, want to turn this into a pissing contest into “who had it worse than others”.
First, I love that you sidestepped part regarding Somalians. This is expected. Here, Somalians practice inbreeding due to religious reasons and have one of the highest rates of autism in the country. The white counterargument is that people of color have less autism diagnoses due to being poor and having * less* access to healthcare; however, reality shows the reverse is true: Somalians have less access to healthcare and an increased incidence of autism. Second, I agree that inbred strains are used to reduce genetic drift increase the reproducibility of scientific experiments. That isn’t in dispute. The question/observation is why is that so many inbred strains used in autism research? These inbred strains weren’t made for autism research yet are serendipitously excellent models for autism research. Lastly, your last paragraph hits it on the head. That’s what I think is happening.
This sums it up. I would add the following.
Discussion is pointless because we’re operating in different universes. In the white world, racism has a simple, ethnocentric definition “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.” This means that if a person of color were to say “White folks lack empathy and compassion”, it would be racist because it antagonizes white folks. In my world, the definition doesn’t wash. There are a few reasons. The first is that I am not a black supremacist, I don’t think myself superior to white folks, I am your equals. Second, I have no power. Not even a little bit . Power is integral to racism. And, let me be clear, I understand that white folks struggle and/or reject this definition because white folks don’t individually view themselves as having prejudice or power. So, discussion is pointless.
If, for example, I thought the SDMB was racist against people of color, no one take my point-of-view seriously; however, if I were white woman who thought misgonystic comments were getting out of hand, my concerns would be heard. You can see it in politics. Black folks have been marching since 20th century for “Jobs, Justice, and Peace” and decades later white folks still ain’t did shit; in contrast, a ragtag team of educated white women marched for a few weeks and the legislature of West Virginia, Arizona, and Oklahoma all capitulated. If these were black folks who were marching, they’d be ignored at best or, more likely, openly denigrated as shiftless, unappreciative, and lazy. Hell, these black marchers could’ve been conceivably shot by law enforcement for doing the same thing these white women were doing in West Virginia.
The point is that we are operating in different universes, thus making discussion pointless. The best thing I can suggest moving forward for the haters to bring your concerns to the moderator(s). If the moderators decide that they’d prefer me to leave, they can ask politely or ban me, either way I’d stop posting on your message board. Far as I’m concerned, it would be a win-win. It would be a win for the people here because they don’t have to be disabused by my words; it would be a win for me because I would be more productive.
And you’re a white liberal who can’t take a smidge of criticism. You truly believe your shit doesn’t stink. You’re the idiot who attempted to dismiss my criticism of the message board with the accusation that I’m some white guy trying to pull a fast one. It was very white of you. You didn’t even try to give a counterargument. White folks routinely dismiss the experiences of color with these types of accusations. Accusations that people of color are liars, schemers, criminals and hustlers. And, if you manage just an ounce of self-reflection, realize that you have other white supremacists - right in this thread - who have also accused me of being a white man. Keep in mind, these accusations keep coming in even after I fucking posted a picture of myself. I could tell you I didn’t post very much because I attended a convention in Las Vegas this week and you idiots would accuse me of scheming and lying; if I posted a picture of myself with the lanyard, I’d be accused of paying a person of color for the sole purpose of deceiving white folks. So, in reality, it doesn’t matter what I say or do. So, I do nothing. Believe what you want to believe. Lastly, I don’t post in the other folders for two reasons. The first is that one of the moderators referred to one of my posts as “anti-white”. This declaration was followed by a warning regarding behavior that another poster wasn’t warned for. I took that coded language as a hint to leave. You see, when a white man says get off his lawn. I get the fuck off his lawn. The second is that rules aren’t as much corrective as they are a tool for shaming and embarrassment.
Huey Freeman isn’t Black.
Huey Freeman isn’t White.
Huey Freeman isn’t anything because it’s a goddamned fictional character, a role someone is playing on a message board.
All we have of that character are texts someone wrote in-character and whatever other faked-up pseudo-evidence gets created to further that character.
(Heck, ascribing this character to one person is merely a least hypothesis, but I fear this will be lost on most.)
This isn’t some kind of radical skepticism. It’s baseline “I can tell fiction from fact” skepticism we expect all adults to possess.
And it is… get this… wait for it… wait for it… wait for it… impossible to be racist against a fictional character which doesn’t have a race! Huey Freeman is text on a screen! It isn’t a movie character, or a TV character, or a stage character, so it cannot have skin, facial features, hair, hair color, or anything else used to demarcate race. It coincidentally shares the name of a (fictional) cartoon character, which is drawn to be Black, but, unless we’re in the presence of a Licensed Product, it isn’t the same character.
Huey Freeman is a troll. Accusations of racism are invalid.
Well, octopus believes you’re sincere. I even think you believe that nonsensical definition of racism you posted. Now answer this, if you honestly believe wypipo are so racist and devoid of empathy how is it that wars of extermination are not being waged today?
What is perhaps the most comprehensive study of Somali immigrants and autism (in the Minneapolis area) found very similar rates of autism prevalence in both the Somali and white community (prevalence among Somalis was significantly higher than in non-Somali black children).
There’s a problem with making guesses (i.e. “inbreeding”) that don’t have evidentiary backing. Here’s a thoughtful article which discusses theories about why autism seems to cluster in some immigrant communities. Notably absent are remarks about “inbreeding” - instead, explanations getting serious interest include vitamin D deficiency and stresses associated with migration.
There’s also potential difficulty with inadequate surveys (the Minneapolis one has been questioned over small size; prevalence might actually be lower, or even higher among Somalis). As to claims that autism is rare to nonexistent in the homelands of immigrants such as those from Somalia, I found this passage provocative:
When the autism diagnosis came, Gboro knew what it meant in his community. Some Congolese people, even those who have been in the U.S. for years, refer to autism as a ‘curse.’ Some are even more fatalistic. “They say, ‘It’s just a disease that God gives you and you cannot do anything about it,’” Gboro says. Social ostracism often follows, isolating families with a child on the spectrum. As a result, he says, many Congolese children on the spectrum are never screened or diagnosed and miss out on early intervention—the only thing known to help."
You wonder how often autism exists in parents’ native lands, where they are too embarrassed or fearful of ostracism to seek help - if effective diagnosis and intervention even exist.
Inbred strains are used for autism research because inbred strains are used for almost all research. The fact that these experiments are conducted with inbred mice is a technical issue, and simply does not have the significance that you think it does. The purpose of inbreeding mouse lines is to produce isogenic mice - where all mice are exactly the same. That’s usually what you want for controlled experiments.
Look at the papers you linked to more carefully, and you will see that the control mice that do not exhibit autistic traits in these experiments are also inbred strains. From your first link:
The BTBR mice described here have an autistic phenotype because of their specific genotype, not because they are inbred.
You just aren’t aware of the complexity of researching autism and how much work has been done on that front in the last two decades without yielding much in the way of tangible answers. This line of argument is marginally more impressive than Donald Trump, you notice a few things and then spout off like he did with autism and vaccines.
There are plenty of Somalians who breed with outside populations. You haven’t begun to delve into those statistics and variables like that and other environmental possibilities that could affect the health of a fetus. Also: Jackmanii’s post.
I’ve imagined this to be trolling because this is a handful of times you’ve brought up the Somalians without giving any commentary, just the same points. It serves no purpose other than serving as a cover to bookend your inbreeding theory. I think you might be black because I found the thread where you posted a picture of you holding up a piece of writing. You display no concern for your black brothers and sisters, the Somalians who vaccinate their children at lower rates due to unfounded fears they have of them and because of the stigma that could come with an autistic child. https://i0.wp.com/midnimo.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2016112363615478736851812716966_autism1f.jpg?w=660&ssl=1 Some of their traditional ways are an obstacle for dealing with the stigma. Hopefully professionals are equipped to work together with families to increase education while you exponentially turn your back on and stigmatize the brothers and sisters of yours you can’t begin to understand. Shodan attacks people who do commit harmful acts using language some find insensitive and overboard. You attack people your most vulnerable brother and sisters.
Here is why you are allowed to post here.
That’s brilliant. I must have missed that when Bone posted it. It’s a tad harsh for dear Huey, but still deserves quoting in full:
I would guess that the information you posted here will be rejected, because “specific genotype” is much less effective as an insult than “inbred.”
It’s possible that the person posting the “Huey Freeman” account is an American black man, having all the traits and life-experiences claimed, and sincerely holding the opinions expressed.
But it’s worth noting that the “Huey Freeman” account consistently contains themes and messages that are prioritized by online work-groups paid (ultimately) by the Kremlin. Among the most important missions of these groups, such as the Internet Research Agency headquartered in St. Petersburg, is to foment dissension and division among various parts of the political left.
One of the most effective ways to plant barriers between whites and people of color is to tell white people that they cannot get this right. Familiar themes include:
[ul]
[li]white people CANNOT understand people of color—no matter what efforts they make to do so[/li]
[li]white people may believe they aren’t racist but they, by definition, are racist[/li]
[li]white people CANNOT rectify wrongs perpetrated in the past[/li]
[li]white people are all alike (invariably in some uncomplimentary way, such as ‘being [/li]without empathy’)
[li]white people may believe they have acted in ways that will be helpful to black people, such as voting black people into political office–but that action is, somehow, harmful to people of color[/li]
[li]white people are simply incapable of being anything other than unfair and unjust[/li][/ul]
…and so on.
This works to divide left-leaning white people and people of color by implanting in white people the suspicion that people of color have fixed prejudices about them and nothing will change their minds—and implanting in people of color the exact same view of white people. Thus, groups of the left are less likely to work together effectively, and individuals who might otherwise make useful contributions toward leftist goals, will be too dispirited, angry or otherwise preoccupied to do so.
A recent new initiative expands the Kremlin online presence:
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article212299529.html
Postings such as those by “Huey Freeman” (and “Asahi,” for that matter), whether written by persons who are actually Americans holding the views expressed, or by paid workers who are writing to order, are extremely helpful in promoting division and discord on the left.
This. It is easy to get confused because most of the other posters on this board are humans; many behind a nom de plume, but individuals regardless. Derleth is a real person, although Derleth may or may not be his real name.
Huey Freeman, on the other hand, is not a real person. He is a character. He does not espouse his personal beliefs (or anyone else’s, for that matter), but those of a fictional character who has developed into a troll. The character doesn’t care about equality, a level playing field, or even fairness in human interaction. The character only cares about making his point that the entire world is against his aspirations and, it’s not his fault, but the fault of everyone else.
That’s my problem with Huey Freeman’s persona. While he tries to expose injustice in human relationships, failings in his own persona are ignored, and when you try to point them out, you are labeled a racist.
NONE of which excuses your attacks on peoples’ children. None whatsoever. THAT is on you, and “but white people!!!” isn’t an excuse. You claim you’re equal to white people? Well, then you don’t try and claim people are being racist when they get pissed about that. I’m sure you’d get equally angry if someone went after your family.
And I’m going to say this once and for all:
The reason I accused you of being a white conservative troll has fuck all to do with race. It has to do with the facts that you happen to share several common traits with past trolls:
1.) Posting about one subject, and one subject only. (And usually incredibly passionate)
2.) Only posting in one forum (usually the Pit or Great Debates)
3.) Automatically accusing anyone who disagrees of being an enemy.
We’ve had numerous people who’ve done that over the years. And half the time, they weren’t who and/or what they said they were. The subject didn’t matter (race, politics, religion, conspiracy theories, etc). Hell, it doesn’t just happen here, it happens all over the fucking internet. You can’t tell me you’ve never heard of people doing this kind of shit. You know the phrase, “on the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog?”
So you showed your picture and you’re actually black. Okay, I was wrong there. Other people may have missed that post, considering what a long thread it is. Fucking chill.
I never claimed that “my shit doesn’t stink”. Your “criticisms” of said message board IIRC, were basically that it was just a bunch of white surpremacists, who were clueless about race relations. (I believe one comment was about white people offering their opinions on O.J. Simpson, or some bullshit like that?)
You came here, seeing exactly what you wanted to see. As you just said – “I posted X in another forum, was warned, and saw that obviously they didn’t want me there because I was black!” Well, I’d have to see said warning, but I have a feeling that, once again, it’s simply projection. If only because I’ve been here a lot longer than you have.
And as I stated, it’s only about one subject – you don’t seem to care about sports, movies, pets, etc. That’s another red light that you’re a troll. Again, past experience. Blame the other people who’ve come before.
THAT is why people are dismissing you. You jumped in, feet first, and immediately started accusing people, guilty until proven innocent, and as I said before, the perfect Kafka trap: “aha – only those who were guilty would deny it!”
I don’t dismiss black people of being liars, thieves, criminals, etc.* That’s bullshit. YOU’RE the one making accusations about white people in general.
FINALLY, a good many of the people who disagree with you? They aren’t white. Many of them are also minorities, who’ve suffered from bigotry. (I mentioned two Jewish posters, one of whom is the son of a Holocaust survivor) You know what they say about people who assume?
*Well, depending on what sports team you root for. As anyone who posts here can tell you, I’m pretty hard core there. Now I have a hockey game to watch.