What was the right thing to say? Girlfriend situation from way in the past.

In My Humble Opinion
41

:smiley:

Oh, Lord. This is now officially the worst thread I’ve ever started. I think I need a break from the boards. Poor Milhouse. I really shouldn’t be talking about her on the internet like this. She was such a sweet, shy girl, who clearly never liked being talked about. Well, presumably she still is. Or rather adult lady by now. I was thinking, “well, this was absolute ages ago, so it’s material by now, right?”, but I’m actually starting to feel bad about it.

Also a possibility.

Well, for someone with that many suitors and admirers, she sure never had any boyfriends (or girlfriends for that matter), as far as I know. Except for one guy, once. Allegedly. I never met him. And apparently, it didn’t work out at all. From the little I heard of it, my impression is that she couldn’t really figure out how the whole thing worked. Whatever her deal was, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t exactly straight vanilla.

I never investigated much. Amber had the information, of course, but none was volunteered in my direction. I mean, we gossiped plenty about other people, you know how it is. Just not about Milhouse in particular. She was a bit of an enigma that way. Anyway, it’s none of my business, and despite what it sounds like now, I wasn’t really *that *curious.

Oh, god yes. I mean, let’s not use terms such as “banged”. It sounds crude. And let’s not go into details, there’s no need. But, sure. It was, you know, a relationship. It wasn’t platonic or anything.

Which is relevant, actually. Because over the years, I’ve developed this rather elaborate possible response in the situation:

"Amber, I think I know what you’re thinking. Say I didn’t know you two. And imagine that you were both dropped from the sky, and I was told to pick one, with no further information. I would probably point at Milhouse. That’s what everyone does. That’s the story of your life since puberty, and probably before that. That’s what happens when you two walk into rooms. Everyone is always chasing her. You, on the other hand, actively have to chase guys yourself. *You *pursued me, for instance, not the other way around, which by the way was one heck on an ego boost for a boy my age.

But Milhouse is a bit odd, possibly sexually repressed, and has a weird eternal virgin vibe going on. Don’t get me wrong, she’s great, and everyone likes her. But you know what I mean. You’re the exact opposite. You’re down to earth and very interested in matters of the flesh. You’re an extravert, and have world-class levels of social intelligence. Being an introvert and a bit awkward myself, I actually really need that. I’m clearly with the right person here. You’re so much better for me, both in terms of my social and sexual development, and for my overall happiness. You’re lots more fun. And although I’ve only sampled one of you guys, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that this includes in the sack.

So if you’re saying that I can only have one of you, and I ended up with you, hope I don’t regret it… I don’t. I’m super happy about it, thank you very much. Given no other information from the outset, maybe I would have picked her. But that would have been the wrong call. And I’m very happy that it turned out this way."

But somehow, *that *doesn’t feel like exactly the right answer either. Plus, she would have dozed off half way through it. And, heck, how could I have come up with that without time to think?

42

You take half a moment to think, reversing it and reacting in the moment: if you hit her with that line from out of the blue, what response would you want to hear?

43 
I think with this, that you may be at the beginning of the thought process you do need to follow, to answer this for yourself.  Mainly, you need to recognize that this IS/WAS an extremely complicated problem, and that extremely complicated problems only have simple short answers if you are Alexander the Great, and the leaders of the city of Gordian let you get away with hacking their prize puzzle apart with a sword.

I have a sort of wager I would make about Amber with this. That is, that she was actually NOT purposely playing a mind game with you at all, at that time. She was instead, doing what everyone does most of the time: she was applying a method of dealing with a worry she had, which had proven successful in the past.

Look at it from inside of her situation: she had, per your description, a lot of insecurities about herself. She did not at that time realize that she was valuabley attractive in her own right. She may even have been hanging around with Milhouse, at least in part, because Milhouse could be used in several ways by her, to deal with males.

Some people consciously hang around with more attractive people, in order to try to gobble up some of the many people who they are going to reject. Many more, do that unconsciously.

As well, she had learned, as you also describe without realizing it, that making those “thunderbolt” pronouncements tended to bring people up short, and give her a sense of power that she feared that she didn’t have on her own. I have known many people by now, who taught themselves to behave very rudely, or to make crude loud statements, or to be coy and manipulative, NOT because they were that way at their true core, but because those behaviors worked in at least a surface way, to make them feel safe, and feel on top of things. They weren’t aware that what they were doing was actually the equivalent of their dinner plate on the floor because they didn’t want to eat their peas. It seemed to be effective in the moment, but the effectiveness was an illusion.

The only way for you to have ACTUALLY solved the problem that she handed you in that moment, would have been to deal with it’s entire complex background of issues which led her to make the statement that she did. If you want a possible way to deal with similar things going forward, should you run into this sort of thing again, I do have a specific suggestion: use the “honest analysis gambit.” That is, in answer to an accusation, do NOT get defensive, and do NOT give a simple denial, instead, ask a serious counter-question. And have your counter-question be an honest one, a real effort on your part, to figure out why she said exactly what she did.

Since accusations in general ARE threats, what you never want to do in response, is go on either the defensive, or the attack (at least not if you want to become a CLOSER friend to the person accusing you). If you defend or attack, you imply self guilt, or at least the accuracy of the accusation. Instead, what you need to do is find out what the other person is actually trying to communicate with the accusation. Don’t try to explain or excuse yourself, investigate your accuser in a positive and supportive way.

The way to prepare yourself to DO that, is to put the time ahead of the moment, figuring out what your own real motives and desires are.  You were aware before she accused you, that Milhouse was the technically "hotter" one of the pair.  Now that you are older and realize that such can make things tricky, you can sort through your own motivations, and work out BEFORE she asks you, whether you really ARE just hanging around with her in hopes of landing the bigger fish.  That way, when the subject arises, you will already have walked the logical paths involved, and be able to go back over them WITH your accuser.
44

“Maybe so, but do I have a shot with her sister?”

45

Say the same thing you would say to anyone after they tell you something that you don’t think/care about - “So?”

46

“Never” is a long time.

47

True. Which is odd, because she *seemed *confident. Extraverted, forward, outgoing, a bit loud. But yeah, she did have a lot of insecurities. And she was the jealous type, no doubt because of those insecurities. There were other girls, too, that she worried that I had my eye on. “Are you going on a trip with [let’s call her] Cinnamon? You’d better not get up to something.” And then try to pass it off as a joke. “Were you getting texts from [let’s call her] Petunia, your ex? Are you guys hanging out these days?” Properly worried, for that one. For no reason. I wasn’t doing anything with either Cinnamon or Petunia. Or anyone else, for that matter.

Here’s where I have to confess to something that’s probably not in my favor, though: I actually felt good about it, in a way. Like I had at some kind of power and upper hand in the relationship. It was a bit of a rush. How often does a guy get to be in that situation? It wasn’t like I was behaving like a total dick as a result. But it felt pretty good to be the object of desire, somehow, instead of other way around. *She *likes me. She might even like me more than I like her. Oh, wow. How often does that last part happen? Well, twice in my life, is how often,

Just, blah, you know? Sounds like dumb young person relationship drama. Thing is, though, it never turned into fights. She never directly accused me of anything, she just seemed worried. But, yeah, she clearly wasn’t feeling super secure about her own attractiveness. She should have been! But she wasn’t.

I think a kind of perceived second choice syndrome was always an issue for her. Probably still is, to an extent. I actually spoke to her some years ago, all grown up at that point. She was moving in with a guy. They later got married. She actually said to me: “He puts me first. Other guys haven’t ever done that. I was always the second priority, to other girls, or to a guitar, or to a job, or to trips around the world.” So that’s why she wanted to be with him. True story. I don’t think she always was the second priority, though. And I think she conveniently left out of that recollection cases where she clearly wasn’t. But that’s how she felt about it.

It was an odd situation, and I did wonder about it. If this friend being so much hotter than you bothers you so much, why are you BFFs? But they had always been friends, since forever. You don’t break up with your best friend, right? Those two girls absolutely loved each other. (I mean, not in the biblical sense, I don’t think, except in my dirty fantasies, although they would have been an awesome couple.) It was just one of those facts of life, like the sky being blue.

Yeah. You know, I think you nailed it. The mistake I made, which is the mistake I always make, so you’d think I’d be hip to it by now, was thinking it was about me. I was being accused, I was on the spot, I was the one having to perform and say the right thing. But it was about her, not about me.

Here’s what I think I should have done. Looked at her. Shown some love and compassion. And asked: “What’s bothering you? Want to tell me about it?”

48

Judging by the way you write about Milhouse, it’s likely that Amber noticed your attraction to her. Being girls, they talked about it. Milhouse told Amber that she didn’t like you and would never have sex with you. Amber passed that message on to you, because she was understandably insecure about the whole thing, what with you obviously having the hots for Milhouse.

There are thousands of “right answers”, but none of them are longer than a few words (just enough to assure Amber that wanted her and not Milhouse) and the whole affair doesn’t warrant all of the thought you’ve put into it over the years.

49

Hah! I know. It’s not like this thing has been eating away at my soul or anything, it’s a very, very tiny thing, and there is zero anxiety connected to it on my part. It’s just that every now and then, when I walk down the street, it pops into my head, and I try out new answers. It’s like a tiny little puzzle that I never solved.

50

I, too, would like to know why you eventually broke up.

51

“Damn, I guess I owe Matt ten bucks”

52

I’d meant what I’d said, though: imagine you had a pal who looked like Brad Pitt on the best day that Brad Pitt ever had; and imagine that women routinely ignored you to eye him; and imagine that you’re dating someone, and one day from out of the blue you announce that she’s never going to bed your pal. And she says . . . ?

53

I actually had a friend like that once. Well, he didn’t look like Brad Pitt (more like a young Art Garfunkel), but he had the same effect on the ladies. Heck, more. Multiply Brad Pitt by ten. When he entered a room, you could hear the panties dropping to the floor. Flopflopflopswoon! It’s a very distinct sound. If I was standing next to him, I was instantly rendered invisible. He’s the only guy I’ve ever met who had the same effect on ladies that hot ladies have on guys.

And I can totally understand why. He even had that effect on me. The dude was smoking hot. Get me drunk enough, and I might go gay for him. Let’s call him… actually, let’s call him Joe, since that’s his name.

OK. Let me get the logistics of this right. Joe for Milhouse. Me for Amber. I need a stand-in for me… OK, I have one in my mind. Let’s call her Rapunzel. OK, so I know that Joe has the same effect on Rapunzel as on everyone else, and I’ve noticed some attraction. One day, I declare: “Rapunzel, you’ll never do the horizontal tango with Joe!”

Presumably, she’d look at me like I was nuts. Wait, BTW, had I arranged this with Joe in advance? How was I getting my information? “Hey, Joe: Here’s 20 bucks. Don’t ever bed Rapunzel. OK? Man code, yeah?” Does that work? Or had I asked Joe: “How are your feelings on bedding Rapunzel?” He’d say: “Dude, it’s your girlfriend. Don’t be silly.” But never, ever? Screw that. Who knows what happens down the line? You can’t hold someone to that for life.

Anyway. It would be a weird-ass thing for me to say. But imagine I did. What would I like her to say? Best possible outcome? “That’s a stupid-ass thing to bring up. What is wrong with you? But I’ll assume you’ve been eating too much blue cheese lately, and let it go. But don’t bother me with weird proclamations again.” So I suppose it would be that.

54

ISTM that making Amber feel as if she had made a silly/wrong assumption would backfire on you too (“What - why would you think that?”) You needed to navigate a tightrope here - let her know her concerns were legit and well-founded (so she doesn’t feel silly) but also that you were very faithful to Amber.

55

Wait, I totally overcomplicated my previous post, and confused myself. Let’s try this again. Rewind… (sound effect)

OK, just swap me and Amber. Then, for Milhouse, substitute Milhouse’s brother. Let’s call him Claudius.

“Hey, Amber! You’ll never bed Claudius!”

What she might say:

Option 1: “Huh? I might.”
Option 2; “You’re probably right.” (sad face)
Option 3: “Oh, are you jealous? How cute.” pinches my cheek
Option 4 (lifted from thread): “You mean, again?”

What I would have wanted her to say… I dunno. Actually, option 1. I wouldn’t want her to miss out. I would have cheered her on, as long it was down the line and not disruptive to our current relationship. Never is a long time.

Probably not the other ones, with the possible exception of 4, in which case it depends.

But somehow, I don’t think option 1 would have worked for me in the original scenario. People are different. Which I think matters. I don’t think these things are interchangeable like that.

56

I just wanted to say that I have found this thread highly entertaining, and also that I’ve never been the type to be attracted to the hottest guy in the room. Point me to a socially awkward nerd, please. I’m too lazy and/or shy for competition.

I can relate to being the lesser attractive friend. But the guys after her always seemed so bland to me. Just cookie cutter sporty All-American types. I also had a friend in high school who did not seem objectively attractive to me at all, but boys loved her. She had the “flirt and make the boys feel smart” skill and was willing to play dumb, despite her high intelligence. I was not willing to play at anything. I’m just who I am.

57

Real answer? :

“Yup”.

Joke answers:

“No, but I can I watch?”

or

“Milhouse is that friend of yours right?”

and

“That reminds me, I need to buy a knife”

58

I find that a good answer to my wife’s loaded comments is “Mm”. It kind of sounds like I’m agreeing, or at least listening, but it doesn’t really commit me to any opinion on the issue.

59

My go-to response is: “Interesting.” With any luck, it sounds like I’m a contemplative guy who understands what’s being discussed – and, hey, the connotation is that I’m interested in whatever you’re talking about – but, like you were just saying, I’m not actually committing to an opinion beyond, uh, Thinking-About-Stuff.

I explained this to my nine-year-old, and she now nails it.

60

I refuse to play along with these games when my wife plays them. “This sounds like a trap”, “I can’t win here”, or just walk away saying “Not playing”. She’ll be obviously hinting at something and I’ll say “You’re hinting at something. I’m not going to try to guess what it is. Tell me directly what you want.”

I get away with this somehow. I’m not sure why.