What's so wrong in calling a woman good-looking?

Great Debates
161

All the more reason he shouldn’t have said it. The trouble is the idea that a woman is there to be pretty, and that this role has some value aside from anything of substance she may have to contribute.

It’s part of a broader issue of assuming that complimenting a woman’s looks is always a good thing to do, which says something about the traditional role of women. None of this says anything about how Obama (consciously) sees Harris, but that doesn’t really matter because it’s not really what this is about.

That’s the other thing, people are finding it objectionable, they’re not going after Obama with torches and pitchforks (at least, no more than before).

I wouldn’t call it a tempest in a teapot: not tempestuous enough.

What colander said. Refraining from describing her in sexual terms is only “desexualizing” if the default setting for a woman in a public place is “sex.” Pretending that a stripper is there to do anything but look good is desexualizing her. The AG of California is probably not a stripper.

Wow, really? Even straight women?

162

There was no embarrassment. This is about people who make a profession of being offended trying to hijack this woman’s friendship for their own agenda, with zero concern for who they hurt in the process. The villains here are them.

It’s desexualizing (and dehumanizing) when you make a point of singling out women for such treatment. Ever hear the phrase “damning with faint praise”?

Of course, at least as much as straight men. They may not be attracted to other women, but they certainly notice and judge how they look.

163

Hey everybody, let’s all sit with our fists under our chins in wide-eyed wonder as Der Trihs regales us all about those mysterious creatures called “women”, how gender relations works, and how feminists are the real monsters.

164

why am i always right? :frowning:

165

He is an expert. He has read at least several blogs on the topic.

166

Don’t forget that many males are feminists too. The term means someone who supports economic equality, social equality, and political equality for everyone.

It is beyond me why some of the people in this discussion can’t understand why a comment on one’s physical attractiveness is inappropriate in a public speech that mentions the qualifications she brings to the job.

It reminded me immediately of that stupid impulse that George W. Bush had to give an unsolicited backrub to the female Chancellor or Germany at a summit a few years back. Women need to not to be trivialized or treated in an unbusiness like manner when the context is business.

Our experiences with being trivialized have been different to that of men. It is more likely than not to be a reflection of the same attitude that has kept women at approximately 75% the salary of men doing the same work.

Just as many Africian-Americans know that there is a code that people use in putting them down, commenting on a woman’s looks in a business situation is a kind of code that says to many women, “You are important because of your looks.” How a woman or man looks is irrelevant in such a situation, but it is actually more damaging to a woman.

Such a comment diminishes her into plucked eyebrows, various creams on the skin. shaved legs and underarms, depilitories. full lips, white teeth, carefully applied makeup (moisturizers, base, shading, mascara or fake lashes, eye shadows, undereye lighteners, and more) expensive manicures and pedicures, unhealthy weights, expensive haircuts, facelifts, botox, tummy tucks, perfumes, and on and on.

Do we do it to ourselves? Yes. Look what happens when someone doesn’t play that game: She gets sneered at like someone did Janet Reno in a previous post. Have you not seen those sites that show celebrities without their makeup?

If you can’t see that the experiences that men and women bring to such a situation are different, then maybe you didn’t wince when someone referred to Obama as articulate.

I adore the President and his family. I voted for him twice.

Who gets to decide what is being overly sensitive? People’s feelings just are.

167

I agree with everyone who is saying that commenting on a woman’s or man’s looks in a business setting, between professionals/subordinates/superiors/colleagues is wrong. It’s insensitive and it is a form of benevolent sexism.

But I hope someday you all will recognize that this was most decidedly not that situation. It was a friend complimenting another friend, and that’s all there is to it. There’s nothing more to read into the situation or be upset about. We’d all be better off if we could just take a compliment between friends and not get so worked up over it or read intent or history into it that does not exist.

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The self appointed Defenders of Womanhood, apparently. The “victim” doesn’t get a vote.

169

So maybe Obama should have mentioned all the other things she had contributed, before he mentioned in passing that she was attractive as well.

Oh wait, he did. So the idea that he was implying that a woman is only there to be pretty must be wrong.

Regards,
Shodan

170

Well here’s the thing. As a woman with 3 decades in the business world, when describing a someone in a business context you just don’t bring physical attributes into the discussion unless it is relevant to what they do. Model? Actor? Fine, that’s part of their job. Lawyer? Accountant? Marketing Director? Irrelevant and distracting. Very unprofessional. If I am talking at a Board meeting about a boss, subordinate, or just someone I am speaking of in a professional context, it would reflect poorly on me to comment on their looks, dress style, choice of drinks, or anything else irrelevant. I would be seen as unprofessional, and some of that might splash onto the person of whom I speak.

I’ve never bought into the excuse “Oh, that’s just what they do” as a way to hand-wave off unprofessional conduct. Obama was wrong to say it and right to apologize. Personal comments have no place in a business forum like that one, or a staff meeting, Board meeting, etc. I’m the damn Finance Director, and someone saying I do a great job with the numbers and look pretty too is embarrassing not just me but themselves. Context is everything with compliments.

171

Then how did we even end up hearing about it? Was there a mike hidden inside Obama’s pants?

Oh, wait! The comment was made in front of a charity event audience.

Whoops, I guess that wasn’t all there was to it. Sorry, drew.

172

Still disagree though, I think it was harmless

173

She’s not a victim, and it’s not really about her.

If I start a speech with “Wassup, my n----r?” and all the African Americans in the audience happen to find it amusing rather than offensive, that’s not really relevant. It’s still not appropriate for a business context.

174

I don’t understand why people keep using the phrase “business context”. What business context? Obama and Harris aren’t coworkers, nor were they working in any kind of business relationship.

I do agree that the comment was unprofessional – but I think you’re allowed to be unprofessional when you’re not in a professional setting.

175

It was a fundraiser for the DNC. That’s about as business of a context as you get in politics.

176

This is about her and her friendship being used as political tools and treated as expendable. So yes, it is about her.

Nor is it anything close to what Obama was doing. On the contrary, it’s the opposite; Obama is being criticized for treated her just like he does men. He’s being criticized for not treating her as inferior enough.

177

No. He is being criticized for making a mildly inappropriate comment.

178

Oh my god you are so full of shit.

179

Thank you! Finally someone else gets this extremely important point. Every time someone brings up the argument, “it’s inapropriate to mention physical appearance in a business context” it is a complete non-sequiter.

Was the commment Obama made unprofessional? Yes, absolutely! Good thing it wasn’t a professional setting!!!

180

Except that it was.