Hmm. Nice coding.
Very true, but language can and has been affected by criticism i.e blanket usage of the unspecific referer “He”: more and more it’s considered unacceptable and use of "“He/She” is becoming fairly widespread, making many texts we read on a daily basis far less phallocentric. “Cocksucker” does not bother me nearly as much as using “gay” for lame, but at the moment that seems to be a juvenile tic which is usually confronted outside of the peer group; I’m hoping that doesn’t catch on to any lasting extent. I will stand by my guns however and say that as long as “cocksucker” (who knew I’d ever get tired of typing that?) is used to insult and degrade gay men, it will retain an overtly homophobic sense for me and others, even when used in a non-homophobic manner.
“Dog fucker” OTOH, that’s brutal. Love it. But as soon as society decides that dog fucking is acceptable and that individuals should do their bit to be supportive of dog fuckers… 
That made my morning.
See, if you read my post way back when, I argue that “cocksucker” does not neatly replace words like “fag” and “queer” or whatnot. “Cocksucker” is generally NOT used for people who are subordinate; usually it is used with people who are opposite - aggressive, annoying, etc. “My boss is a cocksucker” does not correspond with the meaning implied in “my boss is a fag” or “My boss is a homo.” As the term is used, I have never ever even thought for a moment that it can be used synonymously with “homosexual.” All the cases that I can think of, you cannot substitute any synomous pejorative for “homosexual” with “cocksucker” and retain the same meaning.
That seems to indicate to me that “cocksucker” is not a synonym for “homosexual.”
Hell, when we were adolescents we had “pussyeater” or “pussylicker” as an insult. God knows why that should be an insult for heterosexual men, but at the time (late 80s, early 90s) in my neighborhood in Chicago, it was an insult. Obviously, the literal meaning didn’t come into it. Just like “fucker.” Hell, yeah, I’m a fucker! I love being a fucker! Despite the literal meaning, it’s a pejorative.
Esprix, I obviously do see your point. I do see the literal meaning. I just don’t think that in the minds of most people “cocksucker” = “faggot.” This thread seems to indicate that common usage agrees. Though I may be wrong.
Well, whether it’s to or from depends on what you’re doing with it, if you catch my drift.
I thought the “bastard” notion was particularly grand. I smirked when I saw that one.
“Who’s your daddy?” To tell the truth I don’t know, never met the guy. Guess I should get on Nightline and bitch about its colloquial use? Nah.
“Gay” I can understand clearly. This word is used for identification. “Cocksucker” I cannot; it is not, AFAIK, used for identification. The term does literally refer to an act that, I presume, most homosexual men perform, and as I noted previously I find it hard to believe that it became an insult without referencing that it was “bad” to be homosexual in the first place, or at least referencing women’s inferior status in life; either way, it became an insult because of a male heterosexual standard (it seems).
Just like “bastard” was an insult because it was bad to have children out of wedlock. I mean, duh.
The bastards grew out of it (and, no fuckers, I am not calling anyone who disputes the term “childish”). I would expect the same for the term “cocksucker”, and i did expect the same of the term “gay”, but I see that I was definitely not thinking on that one.
If we bastards can get over it, I am pretty sure the gays can on “cocksucker”. I’m simply not giving that one up. It is a fun word, rolls off the tongue. Lots of "k"s… “k” sound is the funny sound, you know?
minty
And I wonder why that is. Because let me assure you, as a bastard, you notice it. But as a bastard you know they aren’t talking about you.
Esprix
Hmm, wonder why that is? Maybe you and minty can get together and work on that.
What I love is that, being a bastard, I must be some kind of insensitive cocksucker to point out that I’m stupid for thinking that bastard might offend people, too, even though we don’t say it.
Stinkpalm, they’re a little melty, but damn are they good! 
(Mallrats is my favorite Smith flick)
I was born out of wedlock. I have sucked my share of cocks. I still find the terms “bastard” and “cocksucker” to be far less offensive than words like “faggot”.
I’ve experienced my share of homophobia, but I don’t see how accusing a non-'phobe of hating us does anyone any good.
I’ve also seen Mallrats several times, but I have never had intercourse with anyones mom and I am not a female dog.
This is the best post in the thread so far.
Oh, and eris, Mallrats is my favorite Askew movie as well. But It think Holden McNeil’s “passive-aggressive gay bashing” speech from Chasing Amy would be more suited to this thread.
erl:
Yep. And I’ve known enough homo-hating assholes to know that when they use the c-word, they mean it to be insulting precisely because of its homosexual implications. And when many ( I would actually posit “most”) people who do use the word employ it for homophobic reasons, why on earth would someone else want to associate themselves with that kind of hate by using the same word as an allegedly orientation-neutral epithet?
BTW: Kevin Smith is seriously overrated. Clerks was witty, but most everything else he’s done has been mediocre at best, and Mallrats flat-out stunk.
Well, Marc, when we insult you, it’s typically because you are being an asshole. Unless you can demonstrate that transsexuals are being assholes to you (did transsexuals bitch-slap your dog? did they sell you some bad cheese? did they annoy your sister? break your waffle iron?), what you’re doing is saying that it’s just fine to insult and deride transsexuals on general principle, which basically makes you a giant screaming fraggle-raping asswrench.
You’re ignoring the fact that Esprix said he would stop using the word if any true bastards complained of it’s use.
This is where the people who are defending “cocksucker” differ. Despite the roots, I do not know ANYONE who employs it as a homosexual slur. Not one single person. Of the homophobes that I’ve known, I have never ever heard them use “cocksucker” to torment a homosexual. It’s not specific enough. It has a broader meaning which does not mean “despicable peson of homosexual persuation” but rather, simply, “asshole.”
Your experience differs, it seems. I would posit most people do not employ it for homophobic reasons. I would posit most people use it because it sounds strong. As erislover said, the “k” sounds give it power.
That said, though “cocksucker” gives me no problems, for some reason I do cringe when I hear “gay” being used in the colloquial as in “That movie was so gay.” I’m not sure why “gay” in this sense bothers me more than “cocksucker,” but it does.
Actually, I just wanted to say that now during a search on “cocksucker” and “homophobia” on google, it does appear to me that there are a significant number of people who do use it as a literal homosexual slam. I find that quite interesting. The primary meaning in the circles I (and apparently a few others on this board) run in, it is not meant as a homosexual slur.
Obviously, many of us have not experienced this word in that context. I mean, heck, read the OP. Not that I’ve ever used that word on this board before, but I’ll be careful, since it does seem some people do take offense to it.
A driveby posting here in agreement with coffeecat. I think that at the time it originated, oral sex was something that was enver talked about in high society and was equated with the dirty lower classes, something that only prostitutes would resort to. To me, it seems like it was more of an insult of “lower class harlot and/or rapscallion!”
Or it could have just originated from the chicken licking phase prevalent in the late ninteenth century.
This means war!!
The idea of not using words because someone interprets them differently than you is a huge grey area.
I’ve known a couple people who use the word ‘nigger’. in their mind it only means a certain type of criminal asshole who happens to be black, and doesn’t refer to the black guy sitting across the table. And though they trully believe that, it, at best, falls into the category of willful ignorance and makes them a person I no longer wish to associate with.
Somewhere else in the spectrum is the fact that many reasonable people are offended by the use of ‘Jesus Christ’ and ‘God-Damnit’ as curses because it takes gods name in vain. Should a reasonable person stop using those words out of courtesy?
There are many other people who feel any bad word should not be used, Should I stop using shit out of deference?
Another guy once told me that the word ‘wussy’ was a homosexual insult, and that I should stop using it. I have no idea where he got that, but should I strike it from my vocabulary because it offended him?
This whole debate is about where ‘cocksucker’ falls into the spectrum. I have never heard it used an insult because of homosexual implication, just as a general contextless insult.
I will continue to say wussy, fuck, and God-damnit, and I am sorry that some people are offended, but not enough to change my speaking patterns. And i will continue to shun people who think that nigger can be used in a non racist context. Those are just my personal decisions as to where the grey areas balance between courtesy and freedom of vocubulary. As for cocksucker I havent decided yet after reading this thread. I don’t believe I ever used the word in these forums. But spoken, with all of those nice k and r sounds, it can be growled out with great vehemence and makes an effective insult, and since I don’t mean it with a homosexual undertone, do I really care if someone imagines one? Or are there enough people who will infer one that it shouldn’t be used?
minty said
Minty. I read your posts in threads which deal with legal matters with a kind of reverence that I reserve for demi-gods.
But your reply in the quote above would suggest one of two things(at least on a quick analysis) : either you run into more than your share of homophobes because of your location or your profession.
I think that, from the replys in this thread, that many of us around the US/world don’t share your findings.
And cites in literature in the 20th century would tend to support a non-homophobic usage, in general.
A small aside: I don’t think ‘cocksucker’ should be referred to as ‘the c-word’ since there is at least one other insult that begins with the letter C that is generally considered worse – and thus more deserving of the c-word title – than cocksucker.
**
I didn’t mean specific insults towards me. How about things like trailer trash, white trash, or redneck?
I don’t know what you heard about me and the fraggle but he, she, uh it, was asking for it. Charges were never pressed and we settled our differences before things went to a civil court of law.
Look, we all hear crap that offends from time to time. I don’t go out of my way to be offensive towards transexuals but I’m not going to concern myself with whether they get their panties in a bunch over hearing someone called a cocksucker.
Marc
PS: Don’t you think using rape the way you did was insulting and demeaning to all those who have been really raped? I take offense.
Count me in with those who never saw it as an insult implying homosexuality (why does everyone seem to have missed samclem’s post?).
These days, the only time I hear the term it’s directed to a golf ball by some Scottish friends.
And this, dearest Marc, is why a great many of us here consider you to be a irredeemable, obnoxious bastard not generally worthy of response or interest whatsoever. You sow what you reap.