So basically what ya’ll are saying is that I shouldn’t be completely honest when/if I meet my dream beau.
Damn. Why even try?
Come on. Not all of us said that. If you have reasons behind remaining a virgin, I’m glad to hear them. Let me repeat:
The only time I would duck and run instantly is if it were for religious reasons. I just don’t think it would work.
If you are religious, there are lots of people out there who follow the same morals.
I’ve always admired Lisa Kudrow’s attitude on the subject. She has said she decided to remain a virgin until she got married (which she did at 31). But she hasn’t made a big deal out of this; she’s mentioned it as what she did but hasn’t said it was a religious issue or advocated it for other people.
Hey, I started that other question, and I know what my “real question” was. I chose the words in the title deliberately, after thinking for a while about how to phrase it. And severus has that correct: I wanted to know if virginity or experience, connotations included, was a sexier quality to you. Some people have preferences and some don’t, just like with eye color, breast size, age, or other qualities.
Bingo. To my mind, at least, there’s a big difference between talking about ideal or fantasy qualities and interacting with people who are a big, messy, desirable package of a bunch of real-life qualities. My thread, with its unlikely twin scenario, is deliberately about fantasy, not reality. That my fantasy women tended to be blue-eyed brunettes did not have any impact whatsoever on my relationship with the brown-eyed, readheaded woman who became my wife.
I was as surprised as severus to see so many people choose experience, because virginity does get held up as a sexy quality in our culture, what with the Britney Spears and Olsen Twin countdown-to-legality clocks and such.
Honestly, a person who got to age 30 without having any serious romantic relationships, sexual or not, would give me greater pause that a person who got to age 30 without having sex. It wouldn’t be an impassable hurdle, but I’d want to get to know that person a lot better and figure out why that’s the case before proceeding to a romantic or sexual relationship.
No, but if you read through the thread, the prevailing sentiment is that those of us who are in our 20s and beyond, and who have not had or are not interested in sex, have something “wrong” with us, that would cause the person who we were dating to think that we might be flawed in other ways that would cause them to terminate the relationship - or at least look at us like we were freaks of nature.
But, short of the “I’m saving myself for marriage,” how are my [hm. Generic my?] reasons for not having had sex before you any of your business? The fact that a person is a virgin is probably something that should be discussed before intercourse, just to prevent any avoidable trauma or weirdness, but why should I have to justify my life choices to you? If I’m close enough to someone that I’d consider having sex with them, some of the reasons will probably be apparent; but I really resent the fact that I’m being told that I would have to justify my existance as a 30-something virgin so that a partner could know if it was “acceptable” to deflower me or not.
You must have me confused with someone else. I remember reading this in the thread, but it wasn’t me who said it.
On the other hand, I agree that your other thread was much more about fantasy than reality, especially since it was worded as “innocent vs. experienced”. Virgin does not equal “innocent”, and experienced is not the reverse of “innocent”.
I’d be wondering what was going on if a guy was over 30 and a virgin. Unless he’s asexual, I’d think he would have at least gotten a hooker or something just to get it over with. I can see being nervous about it, but if I was a guy I would want to get it out of the way.
As for women, I think many are just not into sex. If you say you can take it or leave it, then you probably aren’t a very sexual person. And that’s ok, but I don’t think a lot of people can relate to it.
I don’t think there are any virgins in the places I hang out, so the likelihood of me ever dating one is very very slim. I’d do it, but probably just for my own vain reasons.
You (generic you!) certainly don’t have to “justify” - your word - it to me or anybody. But I can also make my own choices then and turn around and not sleep with you (generic you!). If I was in a serious relationship, though, sure I’d want reasons. And I do think it would be my business at that point.
I’ve got my values set up in one way. Yours are in another way. Sex is not that important to you. Sex is pretty important to me…a normal part of being human. It’s not the reason for living, but for me, it’s one of the greatest pleasures of living.
In answer to your first line, if you’re saving yourself for marriage, how is that not an reason? I wouldn’t continue the relationship, since I believe every aspect of the relationship should be tested before you jump into marriage, but like I said, many people do wait.
I’m not saying that this justification - again your word - is a necesity for relationships but I have my line to draw just as everyone else does.
I do have to say one thing loud and clear:
I do NOT think something is automatically wrong with someone who is a virgin later than what’s been mentioned in this thread. However, I will assume fairly quickly that their values do not coincide with mine.
I’d be surprised. This has essentially happened to me with the friend I mentioned earlier – she’s female, but we were never interested in each other romantically because I’m married and we also know we’re not romantically compatible. But we are good friends and had been for a couple years before I learned she was a virgin. I was astounded at the time. That was four or five years ago, she’s still a virgin, and we’re still good friends.
See, I just think this is not a smart way to approach things. Speaking for myself, I know that I’d never fall in love with someone without knowing if we had good sex, just like I’d never fall in love with someone without spending a lot of time with her, without knowing her outlook on life, without knowing how she reacts in lots of situations, without knowing her sense of humor, without knowing if she likes my sense of humor, etc. All of that stuff is critical to “love.” I’m not a sex-crazed maniac, I certainly don’t consider sex to be the most important part of love. But it’s nonetheless a part of it, and you can’t truly evaluate a relationship without being able to evaluate that part of it.
But it’s more than that. If you’re not interested in having sex, then more power to you. But you should understand that it’s going to severely limit your choices, because most people think sex is an impotant part of relationships at an earlier stage than you do. If I don’t know that I love someone, I’m not going to spend six months treading water with them until they decide to fill in the blanks. There are other fish in the sea.
Tastes of Chocolate, I think, reads me to be saying that most of us in this thread are too hung up on sex. But I disagree. We’re not the ones making it into a life-defining event. “It’s wrong” or “I should only screw people I love” are the things they teach us when we’re in high school. But we’re adults now – we’re supposed to be smart enough, in control enough, to approach the flame without getting burned. That’s why we’re allowed to drink, drive, and take out home equity loans – we can balance. This is another area that benefits from balance.
–Cliffy
But a romantic relationship depends heavily on sexual intimacy and compatibility. I, for one, like to know that my partner and I will be mutually compatible sexually. I like to find this out early. Not first date early but early enough that we both know if things are going to work on this level.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t put sex higher on the level of importance than trust, respect, values and other important aspects of a relationship. But I have to be honest, some of these things take a great deal of time and even unexpected personal hardship (on both sides) to really test the ultimate strength of the relationship. Sex isn’t that complicated and sexual compatibility is relatively easy, not to mention FUN, to ascertain.
I’m sorry if it sounds like a referendum on you as a person, it isn’t. But if I don’t get the feeling that my potential partner and I will be sexually compatible, there simply will not be a romantic involvement from my side. I don’t want to be hung up about sex. I want to get past it, know that it works and get on with the rest of the really important stuff. Besides, sex has a way speeding up the development of trust and intimacy.
IMHO.
Indeed I do. My apologies. I got you confused with this thread’s OP, Soapbox Monkey.
Well some of us would lose our jobs if we were to do that.
You would lose your job if were to hire a hooker? I’m curious. How? Why? How would they even know?
This thread is almost turning into a GD!
I’m guessing, <Insp. Clouseau> An officer of the Law </Clouseau>. 
Hooker: Why sure Quartzi, I love to do that. But first I have to ask… Are you a cop?
Quartz: :smack:
Puh-lease. People, (and even cops) get away with that kinda stuff all of the time. If there’s a will (and cash) there’s a way. 
Well, my mileage varies. I’ve never had sex with someone else, but I’ve been in love before (they, on the other hand, liked me but not in this way). Before knowing if I love someone, I need to spend time with them and see what happens, but I don’t need to have sex yet. If I ever come to a point where I love someone, and that someone loves me in return, we’ll probably decide to have sex. And presumably we’ll like it. If not, I’m sure there will be things we can do to improve our compatibility, and if it doesn’t work, well, we’ll just decide then if it’s worth continuing the relationship. It could still be, you know. I don’t think sex is the most important part of a relationship, and I would even say that there are probably elements of a relationship that are more important than sex.
I’ve never said that. I would want to have sex, but there are other things that I will have to check before really wanting to have sex. You, on the other hand, will have sex before checking those other things. We’re just different, I’m not better or worse than you.
Well, I don’t know, but if you’re shocked that someone my age might never have had sex with another person, it seems to me that you consider it to be some kind of life-defining event. I agree that sex in all its forms is an important part of life, but different people have different experiences with it, and that’s normal.
And I assure you that if I say that I would prefer to have sex with people with whom I already have some kind of ongoing relationship doesn’t mean that I’ve been brainwashed by high school. I don’t even think I’ve been told to “only screw people I love” in school. If you’ve been taught that, and later decided that sex was good with much more people than that, that’s great for you. But the fact that I think otherwise only means that I’m different.
See, this is something that bothers me. I’ve a very sexually liberal person. I think it’s great that sexuality is no longer constrained as much as it was in the past. But there seems to exist a new group of people who claim to be sexually liberal but whose message is “see, it’s fun, and everybody does it so you should too, and if you don’t you’re not normal, or you’re a loser, or whatever”. But that’s just bringing back sexual constraints, and in fact I see it as an extension of some attitudes of the past (boys-will-be-boys and machismo, for example). I’m not saying this is what Cliffy or Anaamika are saying, it’s just a general example. But it’s an attitude I have seen before.
Voice of experience chiming in here. … (well, some experience at any rate).
I’ve dated three virgins in my time. The one thing they all had in common was they had been raised (or chose to live) slightly isolated from others, few friends, etc.
The first was 22 (when I was 24). She was just coming out of college and had put her studies behind her for the first time. (straight A’s in school, honors in college, school came before all else) She’d had a few boyfriends but had never done much beyond kissing. We spent a year dating and we did a lot (physically) together. She moved on to another boyfriend who she gave her virginity to. (That phrase just sounds wrong and old fashioned, but I couldn’t think of another way to put it.) and after a year with him moved on to another guy who she married. She was pregnant and quite happy when I lost touch with her.
The second was 42 (when I was 32). She was a medical doctor with her own practice. Her younger sister was very outgoing and stunningly beautiful. Even though she herself was attractive, she’d lived in her sisters (social) shadow her entire life. She was much more successful and intelligent, but awkward around people. We dated for several months and I taught her to be comfortable with her body and we did many things, but we both knew it wouldn’t last long. She didn’t want to go all the way unless she was in love, and although we were good friends and cared for each other, that wasn’t going to happen. Eventually we drifted apart and stopped dating. As far as I know, she is still waiting to fall in love, but at least she is now dating and has a chance to find someone.
The third was 40 (when I was 35). Her mother ruled her life from childhood, telling her to stay away from men and concentrate on her music. She became a music professor and, at the suggestion of one of her former students, she took a chance and started dating me. … A year later I married her and that’s all I’m going to say about that…
None of them was a virgin due to religious reasons. All of them wanted someone in their life to be close to but didn’t know how to approach dating, because they had spent the years everyone else learned these things concentrated on their studies (high school and college). Every one of them was loving and passionate once given a chance to express it.
So… to answer the OP…
When does it become weird socially? I’d have to say after college.
When does it become weird, as in there may be something wrong with the person? I’d have to say never… as a generalization… and it is entirely possible that there may be something wrong with them. I just haven’t found anyone weird like that.
How is a person supposed to lose his or her virginity if, after a certain age, people start saying, “Oh, that’s weird, I’d never date them!”
You’re kinda stuck in a catch 22 then.
Lie? Coke bottle?
I disagree. Intimacy and compatability are more important to romance than sex, and it is entirely possible to be both intimate and compatible without being sexual.
Trust me on this. My most intimate relationship is with someone who I would never in a million years have sex with.
I disagree. But that’s you vs. me, and there’s nothing wrong with different strokes for different folks.
Here, you and I are on the same page.
I certainly don’t disagree with the last part of that sentence (in re: fun); however for some people sex is that complicated. Frankly, I’m all for losing the American Victorian hangups about sex because I don’t think they do anybody any good, but that doesn’t change the fact that for some people sex is a very complicated thing.
As far as easy…I guess. I could have gotten laid several times in the past, but I wasn’t interested in being sexually intimate with someone who I didn’t trust, respect, or share values with. YMM(and obviously does)V.
I have no disagreement with anything up through your last sentence, because whatever works for you, works for you. However, it doesn’t work for me - we’re back to that different strokes thing.
I don’t, however, agree that sex necessarily speeds up intimacy. Admittedly, I can’t speak from personal experience on this point, but I can speak from the experiences of those around me, for whom probably less than 25% have had an increase in intimacy through sex…based on relationship stability and other easily-observable “tells.”
In the end, if you’re good with me being comfortable having sex after trust and intimacy, I’m good with you seeing it as a means to trust and intimacy. As severus said:
But there’s a huge difference between what’s in your post, the last line of Aanimaka’s post, and what some of the other posters have been saying. I have no problems with live and let live, or, that’s important for me to know before I’m in a relationship and, “You haven’t had sex and you made it through college (or are old enough to have done so)? WTF is wrong with you?”