When you have different amounts of "disposable income" - what's the right way to handle it

[DivineComedienne]

@simple_homer

It just sounds to me as though the OP is jealous of his disposable income and that she wants to be a kept woman.

She either needs to have a very honest conversation with him, or suggest to him that they spend most of the nights at his place and not hers.

He probably works hard for his money, and it sounds as if he might resent a woman that does not have the few extra dollars for a bottle of shampoo and eggs for breakfast.

If he “resents” me for not having enough money to pay for his food, he should not be dating me; he should find a woman who can afford to keep him.

I guess to me, if I was having dinner at a friend’s house, I’d say, “Sure, how about I bring dessert?” When I go to a family get-together, everyone brings something, whether it be wine, dessert, appetizers, etc. If Mr. Divine and I go to dinner, I’ll buy the drinks or leave the tip. To me, sharing the expenses (in keeping with each person’s ability to pay) is part of being polite.

One of my friends is struggling as much as I am. When we get together, we do things that are free, we don’t go out to expensive places, because we both are considerate of each other’s financial situation. Again, to me, that’s being considerate and polite.

I’m not asking him to pay the rent or the electric bill; that is my responsibility and would be the same whether or not he was coming over. But it just seems…odd…that he can come over and not do anything at all to pitch in, especially when he knows I am struggling. I could see if he didn’t know what to bring, but in that case…ask me what I need.

This is different than being a kept woman - it strikes me as weird that the social niceties I have always taken for granted don’t occur in this situation. So that makes me feel that I’m being taken advantage of.

But apparently I’m wrong, the majority of you seem to think that he’s not taking advantage of me, but instead that I’m trying to take advantage of him. If the situation were reversed, I would be offering to help him. But it seems that, if I feel that way about it, that means I am more involved in this relationship than he is; so the issue is not politeness or consideration, it’s that he’s “just not that into me.” I appreciate the impartial opinions… thanks.

[Tom_Tildrum]

DC, I don’t necessarily think you’re wrong here. Different couples reach different arrangements.

You may be asking yourself the wrong question, though. Regardless of whether it’s the right thing to do, the fact is that you asked him to do it, and he hasn’t. You have his answer as to whether he thinks it’s right, and that’s the only answer that really matters.

So now, it seems to me, you should be asking yourself: Is this a deal-breaker? If so, then are there compromises that you can live with?

[dangermom]

This last post is different than your others, in which you say you want him to provide for you, buy groceries and gas. In a dating relationship, it’s perfectly appropriate for you to cook dinners based on what you can afford and for him to offer to bring dessert if he wishes. If you can’t afford to feed him, you can either feed him beans and rice (and skip dessert) or not invite him over so much.

You say he pays for dinners out and for dates, so it sounds like he gives out more cash, assuming you go out at least once a week. (You don’t have to pay for the drinks if your pocket won’t take it–heck, you can drink water.)

IMO expecting him to give you money for living expenses is different than you each pitching in for parts of dinner. One implies the whole kept woman thing and produces an imbalance of power if you’re not in the same household. The other is part of an equal relationship.

[simple_homer]

For a few years I had a really nice relationship with a woman and we alternated treating the other to dinner. On my “nights to cook” I would take her out for dinner at a mid-range restaurant ($50-$80).
On her nights to cook she would typically prepare spaghetti or lasagna at her apartment.
I had no problem with spending more than her.
But, if she had suggested that I give her a gift card in order to buy shampoo or lasagna noodles, or for using her bed, I would have had to seriously reconsider my relationship with her.

OP, what the hell… just ask him to go shopping with you at Target, and when you get to the register just see if he offers to pay.
If he does, then you are happy.
If not, then you have your answer.

If he offers to pay, then that is his decision and he should be ok with that.
If you are dropping hints, and he ignores them, then he obviously does not want to help you financially.

[DivineComedienne]

@dangermom

This last post is different than your others, in which you say you want him to provide for you, buy groceries and gas. In a dating relationship, it’s perfectly appropriate for you to cook dinners based on what you can afford and for him to offer to bring dessert if he wishes. If you can’t afford to feed him, you can either feed him beans and rice (and skip dessert) or not invite him over so much.

You say he pays for dinners out and for dates, so it sounds like he gives out more cash, assuming you go out at least once a week. (You don’t have to pay for the drinks if your pocket won’t take it–heck, you can drink water.)

IMO expecting him to give you money for living expenses is different than you each pitching in for parts of dinner. One implies the whole kept woman thing and produces an imbalance of power if you’re not in the same household. The other is part of an equal relationship.

I try to keep my posts brief (not always successfully) to make them easier to read; and I may be leaving out key points when I do that.

I suggested filling my gas tank or buying a grocery store gift card because, frankly, he doesn’t live there so he would not really know what I need. I don’t expect him to stop at the market and psychically know that I am out of eggs, or bread, or the Dr. Pepper he likes, and just pick up those items.

But, let’s say I have $50 - I can either fill my gas tank, or buy groceries for the week; I can’t do both. (And Yes, often this is a real decision for me, especially when unbudgeted expenses come up, like when my son’s sneakers rip and I have to replace them sooner than I expected - I have to cut other expenses to find money for them.) On my own, I would probably spend $25 on food (which is bare minimum) and $25 on gas, then spend the week not going anywhere so as not to use extra gas (another reason it is preferable for him to come to my house, rather than me drive to his) and also scrape out another $15 to use for gas by skipping a haircut for another three months. But, if he filled my gas tank, I could use that $50 to buy groceries (many of which he will be eating). If he bought me a grocery card, I could buy the groceries (which he would STILL be eating) and then use the $50 to fill the gas tank so I can get to work.

But the problem is, this is the way I think, not the way he thinks, and apparently not the way other people think, either. I also suspect behind this issue, another issue of him not wanting to get too involved with me (which I understand to a degree). I wasn’t sure if I am expecting too much from him, given our situation, and apparently I am.

[rekkah]

@DivineComedienne

I just read Steve Harvey’s book “Think Like a Man, Act Like a Lady”, in which he says that a man who is truly devoted to a woman will do three things: Profess, Provide, Protect. That is, he will make it clear that this woman is the one, and do things that show he wants to take care of her and protect her.

This reads like you want a husband from the 1950s (and I do mean husband). I’m in the UK, where the cultural expectations are a bit different, but I would be surprised if this was how many men think these days. I think it is natural to want to express love, do nice things for your loved one and prevent bad things from happening to them if it’s in your power, but I think that should be true for both partners in a relationship.

It sounds like you are confusing two different issues/expectations:

1). You feel there should be an equal financial contribution to shared activities - i.e. you feel it’s unfair that you’re paying for food, shampoo etc and utilities for the majority of the time and that it would be fairer if he chipped in. I think that’s a reasonable expectation, but I could understand him feeling that he pays his share by paying for meals out.

2). Some of your posts read as though you expect him to want to help or support you financially because you feel he should want to take care of you.

I think number 1 is a reasonable concern and could be grounds for re-negotiation - perhaps he could bring over groceries or you could stay at his more often. It might actually be helpful for both of you to add up roughly what you spend on these things - it could be that either or both of you are underestimating the other’s expenditure and therefore feeling the deal is less fair. I don’t think number 2 is a reasonable expectation for the casual relationship you’ve described.

[DivineComedienne]

@simple_homer

If he offers to pay, then that is his decision and he should be ok with that.
If you are dropping hints, and he ignores them, then he obviously does not want to help you financially.

I think you are right - I tie this to his level of involvement with me (not just financially, but that he wants to keep his distance from me emotionally as well). I think that is my answer.

[simple_homer]

@DivineComedienne

I think you are right - I tie this to his level of involvement with me (not just financially, but that he wants to keep his distance from me emotionally as well). I think that is my answer.

So… you feel as though if he were more emotionally involved he would also be more financially involved with you ?

It all still sounds as though you want to be a kept woman and/or that your emotions should be bought and paid for.

[DivineComedienne]

@simple_homer

So… you feel as though if he were more emotionally involved he would also be more financially involved with you ?

It all still sounds as though you want to be a kept woman and/or that your emotions should be bought and paid for.

No, not exactly. I guess I feel that if he were more emotionally involved, then he would WANT to help. Because I know I would want to help him, if it were the other way around. It’s not about the money, necessarily, although that’s a part of it. It’s about being considerate and empathetic towards the other person, which is what politeness and manners and relationships are all about.

Let me give a broader example:

Let’s say you and I were part of a group of 8 friends who take turns hosting a get-together. And let’s say that everyone has hosted 2 or 3 times, except for me. I have attended all these parties, but I have never volunteered to host one myself. Would you ask me why?

Would you assume I was rude? Or that I was ashamed of my living conditions? That I live with a drunken mother who would embarrass me? That I was cheap? That I was not brought up to understand social reciprocation? Would you even ask, or just be resentful of me for not hosting, and freeloading on everyone else?

What if you did ask me, and I said I couldn’t afford it? Would the other seven of you offer to bring the food and drink? Am I not holding up my part of the friendship if I can’t afford to host, since I have come to all of your homes? Or would I be considered a bad hostess if I didn’t spring for all the goodies? Would I get drummed out of the group? Or is it ok if I have everyone over but just serve tap water and a bag of store-brand chips, when you served a full buffet to us at your house?

I"m not sure why this is different because it’s someone I’m dating, not just a friend - but I think it is different. That’s why I’m asking if I’m out of line.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@DivineComedienne

I think you are right - I tie this to his level of involvement with me (not just financially, but that he wants to keep his distance from me emotionally as well). I think that is my answer.

I think you’re right that you are tying this to his level of involvement, but I am not sure you can extrapolate from that to how much he cares about you. Like I said in my first post in thread, I think he’s just perfectly happy with your existing arrangement. It just occurred to me that he’s keeping a full household on his own, too, as well as paying for college and alimony and all of your dates out.

I think the best way for you to let go of some of your resentment over this is to either keep within your budget in spite of him being over so much (like others have said, serve rice and beans if that’s what’s in the budget), or find a boyfriend who is willing to move forward in the relationship and move in together/get married. I don’t think this guy is doing anything wrong, but he might not be the right guy for you.

[Nava]

@Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco

I don’t know, this seems rather old fashioned to me. I haven’t read that book, but the extended title worries me: What Men Really Think About Love, Relationships, Intimacy, and Commitment.

• As if all men think in the same way. Really.

Or all women. Maybe that’s why I’m not married… no, wait, I know quite a few couples where the woman makes more than the man, one where they met at the Taekwondo nationals (they were both competing)…

Do you expect your other friends to bring you groceries, or don’t you ever have anybody else over?

[lindsaybluth]

@lindsaybluth

I think you want him to financially provide for you as a way of moving your relationship into more serious territory than it currently is.

This is what I said before, and as the OP has reluctantly stated, I was spot on.

@DivineComedienne

If Mr. Divine and I go to dinner, I’ll buy the drinks or leave the tip.

He’s not your Mr. Divine, and and I think this is very telling.

I also don’t understand how you’re going to dinner and paying for drinks and the tip if you also have to choose between groceries and your son’s new shoes. I’ve been on a budget that tight before, and if I wasn’t in a relationship already, I didn’t get myself into one. Your money problems don’t appear to be recent; they seem to have preceded your relationship. What were you doing trying to date months back if you didn’t have disposable income? Dating isn’t a cheap activity; you have to have the emotional as well as financial resources to handle it. I don’t understand how you could be buying drinks at a restaurant if something like a $50 pair of sneakers makes you have to choose between essentials such as food and clothing. It doesn’t add up at all.

[Dangerosa]

You said he’s divorced. That changes how financially involved a man might want to get. Trust me on this. After my divorce my husband and I spent years on complex arrangements to split the bills in a fair and equitable manner. My mother in law was with her partner for 20 some years and they were still splitting checks by what each ordered (despite him making a lot more than she did) and dividing out the household bills - both of them had been screwed in previous divorces. Divorce can really change how much you are willing to invest in someone else’s comfort.

Decide if what you have is worth sticking around for for you. It either is, or it isn’t. Don’t decide it isn’t good enough based on a book - which doesn’t even sound vaguely realistic to me (and I’m happily married 15 years now to someone who I adore - and believe the feeling to be mutual).

I suspect you and he want very different things - at least at this point in time. You are saying you want a different level of concern for you than he is willing to give.

[DigitalC]

@dangermom

I think that’s expecting too much of a man you aren’t living with or married to. Just…no. I don’t think it would be right.

I agree with this. If you can’t afford to cook for him then stop doing it. Asking a guy you are not even dating exclusively to help pay for your groceries is pretty out of line, of course he never thought about it nobody would.

[astro]

When dating I usually pay for all meals and entertainment and provide gifts of various sorts if I feel they are useful or appropriate and feel they will be well recieved. Some women are comfortable with this, and some are not, and simple observation and listening will generally tell you where they stand on this. Interestingly, being OK with a man gifting you doesn’t necessarily correlate with the woman’s income, it’s mostly simply personal preference.

Having said this, although the two of you are not “going steady” and you a have a very modern and adult relationship, it sounds like (to me) not that you want to be “kept” necessarily, but rather that you want, on some level, for him to be more involved with wooing you vs taking you for granted.

Trying to parse out what’s equitable as economic kick-ins in a scenario like this would be great in you were in a business relationship, but you’re not. If he *really *cared, if he was really mad about you he’d be more attentive to how relatively poor you are and step up a lot more if you were open to it (which you obviously are). If there was a financially strapped woman I was sleeping with there’d usually be a bag of groceries in my hand every time I came over for the night.

From his side of the equation, if you’re to the point you’re assisting with a woman’s household and grocery expenses there needs to be more on the table than a non-exclusive relationship. Beyond this, if he really is just out of a divorce he’s probably/possibly going to need several years to re-calibrate before wanting to be married again. It also sounds like you would like a somewhat more romantic man.

The main problem is that it sounds like (although you say you are OK with the current non-exclusive status) that you really want him to be more “into” you and that he’s not likely to step up to the next level anytime soon. If you are looking for a real husband vs a casual boyfriend investing more time in this relationship might not be the best use of your resources.

[LurkerInNJ]

I understand where you are coming from and I don’t think you are out of line. It’s a consideration thing. You want to feel provided for, but not kept as some others have suggested. Anyone who has money can reach for the check, but someone who pays attention to your situation and shows up with a shopping bag of groceries shows that they have paid attention and taken your situation into consideration. You probably wouldn’t care if you went out a few less times and he picked up a couple bags of groceries instead. It’s not an he spent $$ taking you out, so now you owe him $$ in meals and electricity.

I had a situation with a former b/f. I would keep my fridge stocked with his favorites (and things I never would have purchased for myself) so he would be comfortable when he came over. I cared about him and wanted him to do this for him. It never occurred to me not to do this. It’s natural for me. However, when I would go to his house, he never seemed to be able to muster up even the slightest reciprocation.

One day I had a talk with him and asked him if he wouldn’t mind buying a couple of things that I like the next time he went shopping and having it available the next time I was over. I mentioned that I always bought his favorites for his use when I went shopping, so if he could toss a couple of my favorites in his cart the next time he went shopping, it would be appreciated. At this point I was thinking maybe he thinks I like the stuff I buy for him and hasn’t noticed I don’t eat or use those items myself.

When he still hadn’t done this a month after I asked, I realized his response was that he wasn’t going to go the extra mile, hell the extra foot and a half to grab a single diet soda for me while he was buying a case of Coke for himself. That told me the relationship wasn’t going anywhere because on whatever level it was, he couldn’t be bothered to go an inch past the point he was at. Like you, I wanted him to want to do something for me besides pick up the dinner check. It was an emotional thing, not a cash thing. I ended up breaking up with him over it.

[DivineComedienne]

@lindsaybluth

What were you doing trying to date months back if you didn’t have disposable income? Dating isn’t a cheap activity; you have to have the emotional as well as financial resources to handle it.

??? So nobody on a tight budget should date? I should stay home and be alone for the rest of my life because I can’t blow a lot of money on a guy? Did you really mean this?

[DivineComedienne]

@LurkerInNJ

I understand where you are coming from and I don’t think you are out of line. It’s a consideration thing. You want to feel provided for, but not kept as some others have suggested. Anyone who has money can reach for the check, but someone who pays attention to your situation and shows up with a shopping bag of groceries shows that they have paid attention and taken your situation into consideration. You probably wouldn’t care if you went out a few less times and he picked up a couple bags of groceries instead. It’s not an he spent $$ taking you out, so now you owe him $$ in meals and electricity.

I had a situation with a former b/f. I would keep my fridge stocked with his favorites (and things I never would have purchased for myself) so he would be comfortable when he came over. I cared about him and wanted him to do this for him. It never occurred to me not to do this. It’s natural for me. However, when I would go to his house, he never seemed to be able to muster up even the slightest reciprocation.

One day I had a talk with him and asked him if he wouldn’t mind buying a couple of things that I like the next time he went shopping and having it available the next time I was over. I mentioned that I always bought his favorites for his use when I went shopping, so if he could toss a couple of my favorites in his cart the next time he went shopping, it would be appreciated. At this point I was thinking maybe he thinks I like the stuff I buy for him and hasn’t noticed I don’t eat or use those items myself.

When he still hadn’t done this a month after I asked, I realized his response was that he wasn’t going to go the extra mile, hell the extra foot and a half to grab a single diet soda for me while he was buying a case of Coke for himself. That told me the relationship wasn’t going anywhere because on whatever level it was, he couldn’t be bothered to go an inch past the point he was at. Like you, I wanted him to want to do something for me besides pick up the dinner check. It was an emotional thing, not a cash thing. I ended up breaking up with him over it.

This. Exactly this.

[Salem]

Is it the financial aspect that bothers you more or what it says, in your mind, about his investment in your relationship? I asked before, but maybe you didn’t see it- how much time do you spend together per week?

[DivineComedienne]

@Salem

Is it the financial aspect that bothers you more or what it says, in your mind, about his investment in your relationship? I asked before, but maybe you didn’t see it- how much time do you spend together per week?

I think what bothers me is what’s REPRESENTED by this financial aspect. What LurkerinNJ said about consideration for someone you care about. Anyone can pick up a check; it’s caring (or not caring) about me that doesn’t match the way he behaves.

As I said, although we are technically free to date other people, we don’t. He calls me every day, we text and email, and see each other once a week or so (work schedules and distance make it difficult to see each other more frequently). Out of 10 once-a-week dates, we go out once, maybe twice, and he comes over the other eight or nine. Maybe the dinners he buys add up to more than I’m spending on groceries for meals at home, I can’t say.

But if a friend of mine came over that frequently and never brought dessert, or a bottle of wine, etc., I would find that strange, and rather rude.