Which do you consider to be the main "adversary nation?"

I voted China, as they are our main economic adversary and are becoming more active politically, but I agree with this assessment.

I believe Russia and whatever hold they have over trump and moscow mitch to be the #1 adversary to this election and the continuation of the American way of life. That translates into the greatest immediate threat.

Longer term, China is a significantly bigger threat. But if we can’t get past this election for American democracy intact, we can’t face China.

I am non-American and I consider Russia to be the main adversary (although I am aware of the threats posed by other nations as well).

I agree with the short-term/long-term assessment for Russia and China. Short term, Russia is actively working to undermine our democracy. Also, until recently, they were our literal adversaries in the Syrian civil war (we’ve since given up on that, so they aren’t our adversary anymore). They are also our adversaries on things relating to Iran (which you’d think Republicans would be more pissed off about). Finally, they were (are?) putting bounties on US Soldiers’ heads in Afghanistan.

Longer term, China is involved with tons of industrial espionage and other forms of theft, so they’re stealing from us rather than trying to kill us. They also require companies to divulge their corporate secrets in order to do business there. And, they are an economic juggernaut, and so is a much more powerful economic rival.

If I had to choose one option, I would choose Democrat and Russian, but since I think Russia barely nudges out China, I’ll choose Other.

For the foreseeable future, China is the biggest economic threat, but Russia is the biggest military threat. Other than the squabbling over Taiwan, and the situation in Hong Kong which China already controls, China’s ambitions are primarily economic and not expansionist. Russia, at least under Putin, seeks to become an imperialistic hegemony again like the USSR, and sees destabilizing western democracies – not just the US – as part of its strategy. Meddling in US elections is just the tip of the iceberg. Worst-case scenarios with China are most likely to involve damaging trade wars, while worst-case scenarios with Russia may involve military and even potentially nuclear confrontations.

America is, as always, it’s own Worst Enemy.

:sob: :us:

China is much more powerful than Russia right now, and could, if they wanted to, do much more damage to the US.

But that’s irrelevant, because they don’t want to. China’s long-term plans depend on the US being strong. They need someone to buy everything they’re selling. They wouldn’t be completely ruined by our fall, because there are lots of other nations to sell to, but they’re better off with us than without us.

Russia, however, has long-term plans that depend on us being weak. They want to become the most powerful nation in the world, as they were at least in contention for during the Cold War. And we’re in the way of that goal. China is, too, eventually, but we’re their priority target right now.

Long term? China, no doubt. This is part of a very long-term Chinese vision for the future, which has the US still being a powerful country it can do business with but a power that no longer has anywhere near the kind of influence it has now, particularly in Asia.

But right now? Russia because Putin is trying to actively destabilize the United States and has been since around 2007 when he more or less decided that having former Soviet/Eastern Bloc nations lean West was not going to fly.

That being said, our own foreign policy has failed in dealing with both and just in general, IMO, so there’s that. I think the biggest problem the US has had for quite some time is our own self-infatuation. We’re delusional and truly regard ourselves as “exceptional,” with disastrous consequences.

This. It’s like in comic books since they first began. What makes the villains powerful isn’t their ability to manipulate metallic objects with psychic powers or to fly through space or whatever. What makes the villains powerful is that they are willing to do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, and that those goals frequently involve fucking with people even if it doesn’t benefit the villain personally. Russia has both of those things in spades, China not so much.

I think people here are making an excellent case for Russia being main adversary nation right now.

Can anyone do the same for China? Are they doing anything today as bad as the election meddling, social media manipulation, fighting against us (like Russia in Syria), or putting bounties on our soldiers heads?

Today’s Russia reminds me of a George Carlin description of the class clown: “You’d be bored in class and you’d think … ‘Well … why not deprive somebody else of their education ?’”

Today’s China reminds me – just a touch ironically – of the stereotypical Asian kid who is raised to keep his head down, work his fingers to the bone, and know that he’s going to graduate at or near the top of his class eventually. But he still finds time to do some mischievous hacking and very shrewd international investing as side hustles.

I’m more worried about Russia harming our Republic, and more worried about China overtaking it, economically.

Anybody ever see “Dirty Rotten Scoundrels” with Michael Caine and Steve Martin ? I view China as akin to Michael Caine’s character and Russia as akin to Steve Martin’s character.

I’m not worried about China overtaking us economically. Not that I think it won’t happen. It probably will at some point. It’s just that I don’t see that as a bad thing.

You’re poisoning the well.

Very fair point. Given a bit more thought, I probably wouldn’t have used the word ‘worried’ there, either.

Though, if the Yuan became the world’s reserve currency in the process, I suspect that could have serious fiscal implications.

I guess it depends whether that economic overtaking happened with a whimper or a bang.

Can you explain why? The pound and the yen aren’t “the world’s reserve currency” and they seem to do just fine. Japan’s debt as a percentage of GDP is twice as large as the US’s and their interest rates are still super low.

I think the problem with the yuan becoming a real currency is that it is subject to much more manipulation than other international currencies.

On them overtaking us, we overtook each European nation at some point and it all seemed to work out OK.

I’m hoping @XT or @Velocity will come in and explain why we should be more worried about China than Russia right now.

Ya think?

The data so far (44 votes in):

A roughly equal number of Democratic Dopers consider China and Russia to be the main threat; the two nations each got about the same votes from D’s.

But among Republican Dopers, China is considered the more serious threat, by a roughly 3-to-1 ratio.

I should clarify that I don’t blame D’s for viewing Russia more negatively as a result of the election tampering. If China had actively meddled in the election on Hillary’s behalf, you can bet Republicans would be all the more stridently anti-China than they are now. Nobody likes someone who helps out an opponent; the friend of your enemy is your enemy.

Phew :slight_smile:

I think articles like this one mirror my thoughts.

Foreign countries hold about $7T of our debt these days. If switching from the greenback to the Yuan or the Euro signals a crisis of confidence in the dollar, then a selloff is quite possible.

Which could be a massive selloff.

Which could devalue the dollar considerably.

Pepsi losing market share to Coke, and vice versa, probably doesn’t have a comparable effect since that kind of horse race has a very long track record. The dollar, though, has had preeminence in so many respects for so long – what – unofficially for a century, and officially for 70+ years (since Bretton Woods) ?

It doesn’t feel like getting your new chip-enabled VISA in the mail, exactly.

It’s hard to imagine a relatively smooth transition, particularly given the emphasis markets put on constancy and stability.

But we can’t ignore the very real likelihood that I’m totally full of shit.


Do we have enough granularity to differentiate between those who have, and those who have not, ever heard the terms “Wuhan Flu,” “China Flu/Virus,” or “Kung Flu ?”


I know that seems to be the common knowledge, but I don’t see any evidence to back up that we get especially low rates, or any other benefits, from our currency being special. Anyway, I guess we’ll see what happens when we lose that status.

It’s not just that, but they are actively sowing division through social media – trolling on both sides of the aisle – and actively targeting our military. You’d think that Republicans would care about that, since they constantly wrap themselves up in the flag (and in the case of the head Republican, hump the flag on stage). The Russians are our literal adversary in Syria, Iran, and through the bounties for the Taliban.

Can anyone make the case that China is actually more of an adversary right now?